DEV Question: Why the high count feats? Is spam the way the game was meant to be played?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Reinheld, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Funny enough, the only non-collection pre-Wonderverse PVE feats I’m missing are the 250 & 500 CC bounties, 250 Bottled duos and 100 Iconic solos. Short of dating a single mom with a kid willing to knock em out for $20, those along with the 250 solos, 250 alerts, 250 raids and 50 elite alerts will never be completed. And I’m perfectly ok with that.
    • Like x 1
  2. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Speak for yourself! I need ALL the power I can get! :p As it is, despite being a buff troll on my support side (which benefits from super high health) all my blue gen mods are power because I can still run out of power on my DPS side even with 242sp in might/power. Cyborg's ally passive may change that but that would mean giving up the top ally ST damage and no longer getting cameos from my favorite DC character. I neeeeeed mooooore power!!!

    Never fails. I remember the endless complaints after the first week of Wonderverse when everybody spammed ALL the open world boss feats claiming they had to get them right away or it was gonna be a PitA once the 1st week spam rush stopped. I was one of the few people repeatedly telling everyone that open world bosses are not bounties and that they would still be going strong throughout the DLC and probably at least a little bit in to the next one. As it turned out, I understated the case as they are STILL going fairly strong all things considered.

    I hate when game developers do this. I swear they just pick an arbitrary scaling pattern that incorporates what sounds like some nice even numbers at first glance. Marvel's Avengers did this with their Champion system (similar to our SP). In that system, you can spec each stat boost up to five times but each one takes double the one before it, so it's 1, 2, 4, 8, 16. Getting even half the stats to 8 is a helluva grind but 16 is utterly insane. I can just picture them sitting there like "it should scale up making each level harder than the last. Soooo, uhhhh, lets just double each and call it a day. yeah, that sounds good I guess..." SMH

    So few realize this. Quoting just to repeat this little known nuggets of knowledge.
    • Like x 3
  3. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    It does after you run it 250 times lol
    • Like x 3
  4. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    "Depends on the counter feat"


    "Remember, some of these used to go to 5,000 (or more)"

    besides, STU feats aren't going to HAVE to be done before the next DLC if there's going to continue to be a STU queue, so....
  5. Plowed In Dedicated Player


    • Like x 1
  6. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I'm down....however, had you been playing when those old feats were all 'current', you'd probably have them, no? (just a guess you were not) They were just what you were doing for the span of those DLCs, so those numbers worked out. STU count feats are 'current', and I'm guessing I won't have the raid ones at least either....even in 5 years. Alerts and solos? Maybe...the raids, not a chance.

    Again, let's look at the 'natural' runtimes of old vs new counts, and assuming a DLC's 3 month 'current' lifespan. I'd say it's probably more like 6 or 9 months most times....but let's use 3. I dropped a few more in that I know I've heard people lament over counts being 'too high' if doubling back now.

    500 CC bounties at 8 a day (figuring you didn't sit around to get both Abra and Zoom each day) = 63 days
    250 Bottled duos at 3 a day = 83 days
    100 iconic solos at 2 a day = 50 days
    100 Toyman missions (assuming you aren't using a skip) at 3 a day = 34 days
    10 inside runs for 'Honorary Corrections officer" in Home Turf needs 50 runs at 1 a day = 50 days
    Any of the 'do 5 dailies to do a mission to collect a piece of gear in an 8 piece set' (AF1, Ace, Trigon, etc) ones <= 40 days
    10 Dr. Light kills in WOL2 = 1 a week for 10 weeks (70 days)
    16 Apok. Commander kills in New Gen at 1 a week for 16 weeks < 4 months
    'Right tool for the job' (HOP2 Feat), 47 count' at 4 counts a run max = 12 weeks
    100 Doomsday in Doomed Metro kills at 1 a day = 100 days (just over the 3 months and really about when bounty 'spamming' started....Starro actually started it, but that was supposed to be an every year and it was only a 52 cap when launched)

    Add to those almost any PvP feats, when PvP was 1/2 the game and better balanced....hard to say, but most players who played at the time knocked them out as part of daily work (with no trades), maybe save the 10K, just doing a couple of runs when a map was active each week.

    250 STU solos at 1 a day = 250 days (8.3 months)
    250 alerts at 1 a day = 250 days (8.3 months)
    250 STU raids at 1 a week = 250 WEEKS (4.8 years)
    100 WV bounties at 1 a week (per boss) = 2 years
    75 LLL bounties at 1 a week (per boss) = 1.4 years
    50 FP DD/Prince kills at 1 a week = 50 weeks

    One set is 'spam' one set is not. The difference is back then 'spamming' things was not the norm. Now it is, by design. Now maybe they just believe this DLC is so fantastic that we'll be in here running a weekly raid 5 years from now....I'd guess most would differ in opinion and either NOT get the feats....or will spam till done, there is almost no chance of a 'natural' completion on that raid count.

    Now as Lorax says, if this will a a re-occurring event, with re-occurring NEW maps and incentives to run, maybe the solos/duos and alerts will have a 250 run shelf life as they will go in and our of 'current' content. But the raids? Almost no chance.

    It's almost as though back in the day, they looked at the content and said "how many times you think they will be running this thing?" Then set a number at about 80-90% of that. Today it seems as though they say "how many times you think they can stomach running this thing?" then set the number at 2x or 3x that. no point did I say they can't or shouldn't do this practice (Ok...they shouldn't)....Hey, some people love spamming stuff. It would just be nice to hear a Dev actually say...."Yes, we designed this with spamming as the design", vs acting like anyone will get these without spamming, over 5 years. It's like the LPVE feats. The 750 per family number was pulled out of the air and floated as something we'd work on over the course of time....but NO ONE was going to do 5250 legit daily runs (>14 years BTW) to get that done without spam. Even when they added the 10x counter, most don't have them all done. I guess maybe we'll see a 2x or 3x STU raid counter at some point...yeah, or they could have just made the number 40-50? Nah...
    • Like x 1
  7. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Just quoting your quote to make sure you understand some of us are not talking about needing any of this 'now'. I'm fine with 'eventually' but not 5 years...that's excessive IMHO.
  8. Aetrius Level 30

    The counts on some of these feats have gotten way beyond the pale. I came back about 6 weeks ago after not playing since the Atlantis DLC, and I'm dumbfounded by these counts. Wonderverse bounties - just to get the feat if you spam it is 50 hours, and that's assuming you can get into the phase where it's being run with enough people to complete it. I haven't done the math to determine if you'd actually get enough Aether to finish all the stuff you need with that many runs either. 31st bounties is only 37.5 hours to complete the count, but I know for a fact that won't allow you to complete all the feats associated with the alternate currency. It took me considerably more than my feat count just to get the goggles done, and I haven't even started buying the generator mods yet. I want stuff to do in game, but this is not what I had in mind.
  9. Reinheld Devil's Advocate won't get enough Aethers or Beacons to finish the feats that require them by 100 or 75's more like 140 minimum (70 hours)...Legion is worse. My advice, just pick off the ones for the enhanced gear pieces, or maybe a few base mods as you hit 999. I'd expect some kind of change when WV hits 'not current' like more Aethers per drop or some adjustment in price.
  10. Burning_Baron Loyal Player

    In the situation where feats didn't give skillpoints and thus improved your character , your stats would be gained purely from gear(including mods artifacts Allies etc). This would mean your progression isn't tied to doing what ultimately amounts to busy work.

    The devs would in turn have th ability to create more meaningful feats and attach cool vanity items for us to go haha look at me I'm better than you with. That's what ultimate is the driving goal for MMOs
  11. Plowed In Dedicated Player

  12. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Well...if you think it will help....
    • Like x 1
  13. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    One of the gold sellers employees on their break:

  14. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    Wrong, that's a grown man. They don't employ adults.
    • Like x 1
  15. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I've completed thousands of feats but can only wear 11 style items at once. That doesn't;t really seem like a worthwhile reward. Plus my main toon has a visual style theme. If a style item for a feat didn't;t match the theme, I would have zero interest in doing that feat. Also, how would people spec differently for different situations, instances, play styles, etc? All players with the same CR having identical stats sounds pretty lame.
    • Like x 1
  16. Burning_Baron Loyal Player

    You having zero interest is the point. We only do them to progress our character. Every other MMO has them purely for bragging rights. Feats are where I would have place iconic styles , titles, or cool weapon skins.

    Like most MMOS(except maybe ff14 but one character is allowed to be every job so it still applies sort of) your class would have a skill tree and you'd have a set amount skill points. Your trees would have more skills than you had skill points so you would have to make decisions ( The game launched like this where you had to pick what powers you wanted and they were separated in to trees which I am sure you know already).

    Everyone having he same stats is in fact how a balanced game should be. The only thing that should seprate people are gear and skill.

    Each power should have their dps be based on complexity of rotation and risk vs reward. Rage works this way since you have to have very goo situation awareness to to melee dps in high end content. Eventually people will have the same exact stats once there are enough sp to go around
  17. Jason Martin Dedicated Player

    The real Feat for those is having "patience"
  18. iPop New Player

    I too wanna know what in the world the devs are thinking of when they decided to make the Save The Universe raid count feat go as high as 250. Based on the weekly loot lock, we are obviously expected to run these STU raids once per week. This would take 5 years to complete these feats. The next thing that comes to mind is will STU content continue to provide endgame currency and gears in future updates the next few years? Why else would we be expected to run STU content for 5 years.

    I'm already running STU raids at least 12 times per week on my 12 characters. I was already giving up 600 renown for Power Core elite last boss on my alts so that my main could have the STU elite raid completion count and rerunning reg version of that raid on my alts for last boss loot. What more does DCUO want from me? I hope DCUO start considering to make these grindy feat (bounties/raids/alerts/duos/solos) counts global for all characters.

    I'm so disappointed with DCUO with these spam feats and the new rare drop feats they added for older content. Having ran those old bounties weekly, old raids weekly and alerts daily on 12 characters, and for DCUO to now add rare drops in those older content so that players would spam those older content again to complete their rare drop feats was already a slap on my face. The STU spam feats is now adding salt to my injury...