Declining instances!!

I like SW for it being a blatant skill check.

It asks of the community to pay attention and block or nobody progresses. Is it abit harsh? Maybe. it all it asks of you is to hit 1 button.

First of all, there should be more than 1 raid to do in Anthologie, limiting it to 1 raid per week is just stupid!

Unless I'm mistaken, logically the aim of Anthologie is to help players progress, so tell me how this limit of one raid is in keeping with the principle of the Anthologie system?

Yeah, and if 1 person keeps NOT hitting the button, all 7 other people keep wiping. Sure you can kick 1 person, but if 2 people keep doing it, or your group re-opens and you get another knuckle head who keeps doing it? Sorry...waste of time for 7 of 8 people then. That's not 'harsh' it's stupid and a waste of people's time. People this game needs to keep interested to stay afloat.

There are 100 other blatant skill checks that do NOT cause 7 other people to waste their time. I'll keep declining TSW every time unless I'm grouped with a few other people where I know we can carry the group as needed. Honestly I wouldn't have any issue with it if the 1 shot group wipe was on 1st boss. Go ahead, shake the bad runs out right away....not on 4th boss after you've had to coax or carry 3 or 4 useless players through 3 other bosses and 30+ minutes.

And I'm not really complaining. TSW (or any omni raid really) factors so little into my average monthly play at this point (because it's not seasonal, vault, stabilizer, JLDC or omni solos) it doesn't really matter. But since you are touting it's 'skill check'-ness....what does that 'check' info gather for you? That there is at least 1 terrible player in your omni raid run? Ok....tell us something we didn't know already from EVERY other omni raid run.

That and finding someone that doesn't mind only getting credit for last boss only complicates it a whole lot more

Not to mention lag affects Source Wall. Last time I pugged it (and had to give up, only had 60 minutes allotted to doing it) players were swearing they were blocking and yet it was still killing everyone.

All I do is just keep calling out. If your name keeps coming up on a pass/fail mechnic with no change, someone else with vote kick. Not every run is going to be super quick.

I’d forgot I’d even made this thread. And it’s still so apt!

I spent a fair few hours today over 6 toons queued for almost everything that was normal runs. I honestly must’ve had only about 3 raids pop that I actually got into. And I stood around so long, waiting and asking in LFG, I logged out! That’s me queuing as both roles, across all roles. Tank/troll/dps/heal.

I honestly think the declining system should be changed to how the kicking system is now, before it was changed from unlimited. One decline every few hours! People will simply learn that this is the new way, and they’ll adapt! Some won’t like it, it doesn’t matter! They’re not gonna log off or leave. They’ll have to accept the change, like how we’ve all had to adapt with change.

The decline system as a whole should only allow one decline per 3 hours.
Timing out should be looked at too. Allowing unlimited timing out has to stop, as it’s just a slow decline. I get that some people legit AFK, but most don’t, a time out should remove you for consideration frol the queuing until you re-queue; or remove you for a set length of time. The point is: this affects MANY people’s ability to play (selective declining) and gamebreak have to find a way to stop this!

The anoung of people I’ve seen in random queues, who have absolutely NO idea how to do many raids (especially metal content) is frightening. To this day, NGN is shocking to watch, even after explaining things in detail. Jesus… even Labby (with its mechanics being basically nerffed) they’ll still kill the ads you have to turn to stone, as you scream at them.
My point is: selective declining has allowed many to basically bypass many raids and DLC’s in total. When they do enter, it’s… I’ve not done this in a while, or… I was away and just came back. When really - it’s that they dunno the mechanics, and had been carried all other previous times.
Forcing people to either choose to play, or be locked out woukd force people to play outta their comfort zone, and learn. They’d become more confident, and run the content more. It’s a win win!

Something has to change though!

Jawohl! The beatings will continue until morale improves!

That'll certainly make me go from "not running omnis very often" to "never bothering with that garbage". Have fun with fewer people in those queues at all. I'm sure it'll work out great.

So… it wouldn’t change anything for you then? If you rarely run omni’s, why would this matter at all too you?
Would you agree that something needs to change? Maybe as the game population continues to die… (we know it’ll pick up for a few weeks during the new dlc - then return to normal) a lifting of the clamp, or change to it, and restoration of all telepoters would allow people to go about their gaming business, and not have to rely on others, who continually **** it up for others, because they want the easiest ride possible.

If people don’t wanna run raids - then select specific raids, or don’t queue up at all. or make a group. But ya can’t do that now! Because like always - tanks are so few and far between now. People spend hours waiting! Then log out! Or switch toons. So it returns to ‘what to do in-order to stop people ******** up others ability to access content) I think a timer type style like the kick would be a sufficient deterrent! And if people are annoyed - **** happens! We’ve all had to deal with change in-order to facilitate the games lifespan.

So… it wouldn’t change anything for you then? If you rarely run omni’s, why would this matter at all too you?
Would you agree that something needs to change? Maybe as the game population continues to die… (we know it’ll pick up for a few weeks during the new dlc - then return to normal) a lifting of the clamp, or change to it, and restoration of all telepoters would allow people to go about their gaming business, and not have to rely on others, who continually **** it up for others, because they want the easiest ride possible.

If people don’t wanna run raids - then select specific raids, or don’t queue up at all. or make a group. But ya can’t do that now! Because like always - tanks are so few and far between now. People spend hours waiting! Then log out! Or switch toons. So it returns to ‘what to do in-order to stop people ******** up others ability to access content) I think a timer type style like the kick would be a sufficient deterrent! And if people are annoyed - **** happens! We’ve all had to deal with change in-order to facilitate the games lifespan.

First of all, I don't believe your anecdotal evidence about how long it takes to get in content. If it is as you say, and you had Qd up as a Tank, naw. When I Q my Tank, it's darn near instantaneous every time.

Next, it's not about not wanting to run raids, or omni in general. It's about certain content that one, or a few players can mess up, either by accident, or, from what I see a lot, purposely trolling the group and messing up the mechanics. Out of all the raids in the game, there's only about 5 or 6 I don't want to run with randoms, that's just the bottom line. And, I want to complete the omni missions, so specifically Qing raids doesn't get those done. Another problem, if I do let a Q time out because I don't want that specific raid, why should I be penalized if I reQ and that same raid pops up?!? It's funny how often the hardest/most tedious raids pop up over and over out of all the raids in the game. Some people I think purposely Q up those problematic raids just to troll the Q system.

I will tell you now, if you get your way, and an extreme penalty system is implemented, you will be back on here complaining that the Q times are even longer, or never pop. More players will opt out of the system than you think, and then it will just be like pvp.

Again, I hear you and shame to read it's still the same. My instinct is to say control what you can until you get a dev response, and decide from there what your next move will be. If possible, link up with a few players to raid with. Being willing and unable to play is a tough spot... can't just be you. Also, while I agree people are generally adaptable, my impression is some of the decliners are just as frustrated as you are; maybe you're too confident they won't log off if timed out for ages.
For now, let's try to respectfully share info that hopefully makes things a little better.

Players should (my opinions):
> Try custom queuing instead omni and hope. (Favorites is a shortcut)
>> If their mood changes about the instance, help the 1-7 fellow players out by joining and either gutting it out or kindly explaining and asking to be excused. Afterall, who's never changed their mind before?
>>> When at all possible, excuse players and be thankful they helped them get in. Try to work through it without them or invite others.
>>>> Offer their services and ask to add folks when it makes sense. (Use that list!)
>>>>> Form their weekly Trevor omni run groups and decide together what runs they're OK with and decline any others w/o affecting outside queuers.

Bonus: Let's keep our minds open to new tips and tricks when raiding and try not to pass faulty intel. Sidenote to that: In SW reg, the resulting damage from a non-blocker who isn't the solo heal of Perpetua's beam is NOT a 1shot, an insta-wipe or a make or break mechanic in and of itself. If the healer(s) can't undo the damage spikes on the group or at on least enough players to do pickups on the others, then the wiping begins. Sharing misinformation about details like that one make accepting queues scarier than necessary.

But yeah, at this point, I'd like to know how the Daybreak homie who plays DCUO with his son is experiencing the queue system so far. Reading posters say something is taking hours and being told they're lying, neither having receipts, seems like dead end.

The Terrorium raid from Shock to the System is going to be one of those raid people are going to decline too if what I experienced last night is any indication.

Mechanics were not followed, players used the revolving door, and what should be an "easy" raid turned into a terror.... yes, I said it, sorry. But seriously, it was bad. I spent more time picking people up than dps'ing. There were a lot of players who simply played like it was their first experience with this raid. I don't know.

Maybe the solutions should be when any content goes into the EEG category, it needs to be set to "Event" level.

As far as imposing harsh penalties for declining an instance, I am against it. I already hate playing EEG. I do play it when asked by my friends, but I will not play it on my own. Imposing a harsh penalty for declining or leaving an instance that I know is going to be bad is the final stray for me. They took away my stats, they ruined the enjoyment I got from progressing, and now to add the cherry on top let's add a harsh deserter penalty. Yeah, that will really make me want to run Omni all the more!

Again, this theory assumes that people want to play SOMETHING more than they are willing to accept bad runs. If you think your wait time is long now, wait till X amount of people are locked out, or they form full groups to avoid the penalties. I'd argue that people run omni more for the weekly box and a few marks than they do the 'thrill' of running something random with random people who may or may not drag the entire group down. The box is not that rewarding...and marks are available elsewhere...or tomorrow. Assuming this is the case of a majority of the people, it just means less people queuing either by lockout or choice. In the end...you are the one penalized....but hey, let's go for it. Should be interesting either way.

Yes...getting in the runs to repeatedly call out people and kick them is what I run raids for. I guess if that's what you call 'fun', there is a ton of fun to be had in there. Enjoy!

I couldn’t care less what you believe tbh! I’m telling you from experience. MANY times a week, that you can easily be sat in a queue for well over an hour on the EU server, regardless of role. If you’re playing something that’s currently spotlighted - perhaps it can pop pretty quickly. Otherwise… you can be in for a wait! Tbh, what pops most, are if you pick things that have essence drops. Queue omni, Olympus will pop or fellowship etc.

Re: your times out penalisation. Why should others be penalised because you’ve chosen to queue, but just only want what you want, and now other have have to wait further, because you chose to let it tune out. Like I said! It’s just slow declining! If you don’t wanna run random raids etc, then pick your specific raids. If you wanna omni, then you should take what you get. As players get more used to running things they’re not usually comfortable with - they learn. NgN for instance is an incredibly easy op, and people still (to this day) think helga bigtlts is bugged. I explain in detail: blovk and hold her jumping skull spin attack. Lunge her when she shoots ice from her staff. The gizmo goes to the second pod to the left of where it drops.
On the EU, it’s FAR MORE problematic - due to the amount of different languages. But… if players keep opting out, then they don’t learn. If they aren’t taught, they leave. Patients is sorely lacking! But absolutely you should be penalised for denying others entry on purpose. Your ******* with people’s play time.

I’m sure they’d probably look into the possibly negative effects before implementing anything. Players go with change, or they leave! Most return; because ultimately: most are fanboys who can’t let go.
This is a topic about trying to play the game more, and people are trying to argue the point about why they shouldn’t be penalised for disturbing others gaming time and experience. If you mostly queue, do that! If you mostly LFG, do that (with limited success) if you play with friends - do that. This is about queuing, and the purposeful declining and how to stop it.

I'm not sure you realize how Omni and random queue works. If there are a pool of 20 people who all hit omni at the same time, they first try to fill out a raid. Let's assume someone is queued for something as DPS...they need all roles and 7 other people. Well, we said there were 20, so 7...no problem....they get in, right? Wrong. They only get in when the 3 roles are covered in those 7 people. So let's assume one of those 7 is a healer...and one is a tank. That queue will sit until doomsday if there is no troll. So let's say 'MrPicky' comes in and queues as troll and DPS. The queue pops Yay!!....But he declines....you know...cause he's picky...it's in his name. So the queue sets back to looking for a troll. Mr Picky's 1 min comes up and he re-queues. Queue pops, yay!!. But he declines again, the picky bastich. So the queue sets back to looking for a Troll. Mr Picky's 1 min timeout ends, he queues. Queue pops, yay!!! But he declines again. The queue goes back to looking for a troll. Mr Picky's 1 min timeout ends, he queues. Queue pops, yay!!! This time, he figures 'F it' I might as well go in, and the raid finally starts. Yay indeed. About 5-6 min with those terrible terrible cancels and re-queues

Now. Let's look at the same scenario with a long timeout. 20 people all queue omni. There is someone out there with a custom queue as DPS. In the pool of 20 people queueing omni, there is a healer and tank, same as before. MrPicky comes along and queues as dps/troll. Queue pops. He declines. Gets a 1 minute penalty, and the queue goes back to looking for troll. Minute is up, he re-queues and it pops. He declines and gets a 5 minute penalty. Queue goes back to looking for a troll. MrPicky does some inventory maintenance and maybe some outdoor dailies, and in 5 min re-queues. Queue pops. MrPicky declines and catches a 30 min penalty. Now...at this point most raitional people would just say 'f it' and either swap toons or do something else...like sign off. MrPicky does just this and gets on MrsPicky who is a tank/dps. Even queues up omni as such and guess what? You will won't be in your run. That person who custom queue'd still wont get theirs done either. Much success!

If your omni queue keeps popping and declining it's either 1 guy who keeps hitting the run, likely filling a role...in which case, locking him out will NOT get you in. Or multiple people keep filling the same role (like DPSes) and no one wants to run what keeps popping. If there were other people available to get you in...and they were accepting of the run, you'd get in after someone declines...2 maybe. It would just skip to the next person in line. Facts are they are likely not that many people queuing for the run or omni at that time and if the decliner is a role....well, you might not get in for a long time. I guess the real question is will you find it less annoying to never get in than to have to see 4 or 5 declines before going in eventually?

And a random pick up group.You gotta do what you gotta do. I try to be firm but fair.

Mistakes are okay, Not wanting to learn from them is not so much.

I genuinely can’t fathom why you wrote this. The sense of arrogance is astounding! A 3 paragraph statement about how the queuing system works; have you lost your actual mind? We all know how it works. The system finds the roles that are meant to be there for all raids. I can’t fathom why you wrote this!

If you decline! Flat out decline, and were only being allowed once per x amount of time (certainly not some crappy minute) [personally! I’d only allow TWO declines in an entire day on a toon] you get removed from the queuing consideratio, and the next role in line will fill it. Out of your hypothetical 20 people - others will queue as their second roll, and it’ll still fill. If you queue for all omni raids, it’s incredibly unlikely only a handful are queued for it. Slots fill all the time, it’s the people declining that’s the problem! They decline because they want quick and easy runs. Having a limit on declines will eliminate those who most frequently cherry pick.
It would also stop people spamming decline when people shout out ion LFG etc to stop declining instances. I seen about 6 weeks ago a group of bellends spamming LFG with such glee, about how they were basically not gonna be allowing someone into the raid they needed/wanted, and were taking it in turns declining. You’re trying to tell me that a limit on declines will only lessen the possible pool size.
But when people understand that they only have x declines - they’ll either have to, or be restricted. Players ultimately want to play! And if they don’t - Then **** off! And stop queuing. Stop wasting others time!!

P.S. it’s not just omni - selective raids from the quick run crap/favourites. I’d be queued for almost all t3-6 raids, and just watch decline after decline, day after day after ******* day. So yeah! Something does need done about it. (And I don’t mean because it impacts me. It impacts MANY) Players also need to learn their mechanics, and stop fearing going into raids they don’t usually go into. The more they have to queue previously declined raids etc, the more they’ll get used to them.

PPS: or… like I said! The devs finally do something about this ridiculous clamp, and allow people to go solo raids. With a declining population - more options HAVE to be available for people to access content.

Again you're queuing random to cherry pick what you want to run.

How do you not see the irony in that?

Shoot I need a lottery that allows me to pick the winning numbers.