Dear Jack Emmert - You Answered my Question, Here's my Response "Perception".

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Proxystar, Jan 18, 2017.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Hi Proxy. Jack clarified what he meant by perception here:

    First, it's worth adding that broker prices are not the full picture. Many things factor into how often an item is put up for sale or what people think they can get for it. It's not just about how often something drops - it is also about how often someone is willing to part with it. The Phoenix Material in particular is one example of an item that players are consuming themselves at a much higher rate. They are unwilling to trade or part with it, so it seems more rare.

    For those asking for the specific odds and the exact details, this is proprietary information we will not be sharing with you or our competitors.


    Now, with that out of the way, Jack also reiterated we are (have been, and will continue to be) looking at the odds and the overall makeup of capsules, based on feedback we see out here in the community as well as based on what the data says about player behavior. Is every open as positive an experience as it can be? Are too many (or not enough) opens needed to get certain items? How many people are participating in the system? How long do people participate in the system? Does the system impact other areas of the game? And so on.

    Let's take a step back for a moment. Why can time capsules exist? We created time capsules as a way for us to deliver cosmetic and other fun items, items that are additional or on top of our regular content and events and progression. Stabilizers can be earned in-game over time, or they can be purchased, and it's the purchasing that makes them viable. Stabilizer sales first pay for time capsule development and then contribute significantly to the long-term continued existence of the game.

    We want to learn from everything we do, and then iterate, experiment, and improve with the next thing. We learn from your feedback and we learn from how your behaviors change. Sometimes these things conflict, even your opinions conflict, and it's a challenge to navigate what is best. Sometimes what we try doesn't work at all, or works partially, or has unintended consequences elsewhere, and then we try something else. That's what you're seeing with time capsules. These are common in other games and the team has significant experience implementing them, but every game and every community is different, so we're still learning.

    Right now, we hear some of you saying you are concerned about:
    • The overall odds of getting certain items
    • How feats are attached to certain items
    • The pacing/cadence between capsules
    • The maximum gear level compared to the latest content
    • The desirability of specific common items
    As we look ahead to the next capsules and the ones after that and the ones after that, we are considering these concerns and how they match (or do not match) in-game behavior. What adjustments can we make to the time capsules or to the greater game to address these concerns? We do not have the answers yet, and we will share when we do. Thanks for your initial question and detailed response!
    • Like x 13
  2. comrade sonya Committed Player

    "We created time capsules as a way for us to deliver cosmetic and other fun items, items that are additional or on top of our regular content and events and progression"

    Why is the marketplace not where these items go? Why do we have to gamble to get cosmetics we want to buy directly? Regardless of the odds I'd say that most of the population would rather buy the items they want and not leave it to chance.
    • Like x 52
  3. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Actually broker prices are a proper reflection of an items rarity.

    I am a prime example. For amazon fury I opened roughly 60 time capsules. And out of those 60 I got 2 phoenix feathers. Before posting the second 1 in the broker I had to break down probability of me getting a third, and to do that I looked at all possible sources. Not just 2/60 but others luck.

    Example someone opened 300 TC. Out of those 300 they did not receive the feather. That is 300$ spent on TC. In game right now for every 7.99$ is 10 million. That means according to someone elses luck my feather is worth roughly over 370 million. But nobody has that amount of cash. So as a first time poster you would go half that an place it at 180 million. Which in turn sold. But then again there are people who have spent over 500 and didnt get 1 feather. So that thus increases natural rarity of the item.

    One things devs also do not notice is average player cash. The average legendary member does not have over 100 million in game cash on them. And the rarity of these items are so severe that there at any given time is never more than 10 on the broker ready and available to purchase.

    Jack understands how these boxes work. In neverwinter every box I opened was worth the money, and there were no feats involved nor did not opening a box hurt my progression. If DCUO could get boxes to work like that, then you wouldnt see the giant uproar that you see now both in game and in the forums. The forums is a small percentage of players speaking about TC. If you sit in game for more than 10 minutes in the watchtower, you can see how furious players are with TC. And we all know that TC could be so much better than they are now.
    • Like x 28
  4. Tallguy Well-Known Player

    It's not complicated - chance equals more profit. Why would you put it on the market place? When you can make more money with the latta.
    • Like x 4
  5. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    ^ This. I understand Capsules are a necessary evil to help the game profit, but if there was an option to just straight up by the void material and corrupted aura, I would have done it awhile ago.
    • Like x 9
  6. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Mepps I appreciate your response, but a few things I would like and appreciate more clarity about.

    Why wasn't Lockboxes updated with better options? I understand you said they were a bust, but from all the iterations of them, none were balanced well outside of the initial version that just go outdated due to how long it was out before an update. Things like bloated tables and unwanted items that don't help at all were added.

    I understand the need for pushing the purchase of stabilizers, but why extend the keys in such a manner that running the duo is hindering to be even considered "earned in game". Especially if you take the vault lockouts as an example. Every day for legendary, every 3 days for premium, and every week for f2p. I feel this would have been a better option. Legendary can get 1 key a day, premium every 3 days, and 5 days for f2p. Cost of the replays for it can represent the cost of the keys. So $1 worth of replays to get one key. The fragment stuff is just not very sensible and highly confusing.

    Can bloating of time capsules be removed? Simple materials, complex materials, exobytes, soders, all are things not really needed to be in the box. Getting these adds to the "perception" of loot tables. More likely getting a duplicate collection would be better received than an inventory full of exobytes that are hardly needed.

    I was big on playing TCGs a long time ago. I am one that used to pay $5 for a stack of cards and I definitely have gotten two exact sets of cards, including the rares when opening the package. I know the pain of random, but there are things that add to the "perception" that really doesn't need to be.

    Finally, it was said that adding feats was a "oh that would be cool" when added, but why does it continually have to be added? There are people that like the cosmetic sides of things, and others would love to have it on maybe one character, but with the recent emblems, to complete the feat, you have to have all 12 on one. What would be the point of that? (Also, it's not a checklist, but a counter, which I think is a bug.)

    Thank you mepps.
    • Like x 12
  7. Tallguy Well-Known Player

    A simple alternative would be not to buy any capsules and then they will listen.
    • Like x 6
  8. Tallguy Well-Known Player

    Anyway I demand "here2help" respond. He makes my day :)
    • Like x 2
  9. Belthazur Dedicated Player

    Simpler yet would be to Discontinue the Feats from these Materials/Auras/Emblems. Put them in the Borker and Those who WANT/NEED them Can BUY them. I bet DB would see MORE money that way IF ONLY they Would Trust us and try it.
    • Like x 2
  10. Permafrost Imp Active Player

    On behalf of the rest of the DCUO community...

    • Like x 5
  11. Belthazur Dedicated Player

    Putting a Broker MAX Value on things IS Possible..They Just seem to like the Rat Race we all do to aquire a special Shiny piece. So Doubt they will Ever do that
    • Like x 2
  12. Belthazur Dedicated Player

    Also He NEVER said you could purchase the TC Items in this Imaginary Store (we will never Get) He said Rare Items So..I doubt they would put items from the TC's in there
    • Like x 2
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    Hello Mepps,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I am currently at work and on my phone.

    I will consider your reply over the course of the day and revert accordingly this evening.
    • Like x 3
  14. Mystere Well-Known Player

    If you are not going to release the odds of the drops, nothing else you say is credible or worthwhile - it is all hyperbole and conjecture. Release the odds or just accept that many in the community completely disagree with you and that you are not responding credibly.

    You won't release the odds because as soon as people have confirmed what their real,VERY LOW CHANCE IS, your time capsule sales would plummet. Focus on building an engaging game with great content instead of fleecing players through your time capsule lottery.
    • Like x 19
  15. 1 ncmike Dedicated Player

    He compared the ingame store to what they have in Star Trek online the game he worked on in the past so yes you will be able to buy stuff with the coins that will drop in the boxes .
  16. Belthazur Dedicated Player

    Sadly He said COOL Stuff. Not necessarily the TC Drops. I dont think they will put those items in this So-called Store
  17. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    As a rule, speaking as somone who has worked for plenty of companies based around intellectual property, I entirely back such decisions.

    But odds in a lottery are different. Knowing the odds in a lottery or not is generally considered to be the difference between legitimate, honest, lotteries, and those that are not.

    This is demonstrated by the fact that by law, state lotteries are required by law to disclose their odds. Private gambling establishments are required by law to disclose the odds of winning/losing their slot machines and other gambling offerings.

    Now, those laws don't apply to this sort of offering by a private company. But effectively and morally they are the same thing.

    I therefore don't think it's ethical to withhold information specifically on the odds of winning in-game lotteries, given society's general determination that it's unethical enough to be banned by law in more formal circumstances. I don't see why this sort of lottery should get an ethical exception, even if it does get a legal exception.

    I'll repeat again: in all other cases, more or less, of proprietary information, I support the right of Daybreak to keep such information, as a rule, private and undisclosed.

    But I do regard lotteries as specific exceptions. And, yes, it's just an opinion. And that's mine, offered for consideration.

    Otherwise, generally speaking, while I support the need to not disclose proprietary information where it might disadvantage Daybreak, I do urge transparency wherever possible to increase company credibility and player good will. Transparency should be the default about all information unless it's clearly going to be destructive.
    • Like x 12
  18. Swamarian Committed Player

    The way that it works in STO is that there are several groups of items.
    There's the C-store, which is the cash shop.
    There are lockbox items, from lockboxes.
    There's the lobi store, with stuff that can be purchased using currency you get from opening boxes.

    The 3 stores don't overlap at all, and every time a new lockbox is added, more stuff is added to the lobi store. Both the C-Store and Lobi store contain a ton more stuff than the DCUO cash shop.
    They've also been experimenting with "choose your item" boxes, where you get a $item, and then can choose which one you want. In DCUO terms, you'd get a chest piece, and then get to choose between FC, Amazon or Quardian styles.
    • Like x 2
  19. light FX Steadfast Player

    Its called glitched money ;) A while back there was a currency issue where people found a way to make large sums of money with a glitch. Now dbg rolled back peoples money. But some people found a way around the roll back. I know this for a fact. Because i know a handful of people who have very large amounts of money like that and told me directly how they got around the roll back. Does every player who has a large amount of $ have glitched money? Ofc not. But there are definitely still some out there.

    And funny how i said the usual suspects would find a way to twist things around. And on the very next page it starts. Some of us warned that this would happen with the drop rates when the 1st TC was released and how it could end up how it is now with the more capsules we got while others defended TCs at every possible chance they got. I have no issues with an opposing opinion. What i take issue with is people who dont seem to deal in reality or use logic ;) And i am not speaking about mepps or the dev

    Ok so what exactly is the value of an item being sold between say 50-70 million on the broker and in trade chat? What are u using as a guide to determine the value of an item ingame if u say the broker isnt accurate and all the prices are inflated? The prices are inflated compared to what?

    When someone is selling an item they check the price on the broker, look for what its being sold for in trade, ask league mates/friends what they sold or bought the item for. That is how the value of an item has been determined ingame. The only way u may find a really expensive item for a lot less is if u find a person who has the item and they dont know the value of it because they didnt check the broker, didnt check trade, and didnt speak to anyone ingame about what its selling for. So again if the broker prices are not used to determine value then what does determine the value?

    I will say this again, u may think an item being sold for 100 million is only worth 5 million. U can think that all u want for as long as u want. But u wont be getting that item for 5 million because the value of the item has been determined to be 100 million by the people selling it on the broker or in trade chat. So if u or someone else wouldnt use the broker to determine the value then what exactly is being used to determine the value?
    • Like x 1
  20. same Johnny Dedicated Player

    I find this to be one of the most deceptive answers anyone in these forums as ever given. Get rid of the Marketplace then, just charge stabilizers and replay badges as players use them, because if that's the way you're going to "deliver cosmetic and other fun items" from now on, then this game and its developers have truly turned to money over pleasing the player base.

    I would have gladly purchased most (if not all) of the cosmetic stuff you put in TC. I wouldn't have cared if they were more expensive than the rest of the things in there.

    I don't even blame the players who blindly spend dollar after dollar to open these. Cosmetic stuff has always been the moneymaker in MMOs. But when they are available to all, people are actually happy to buy them. Like this, so clearly aiming at feeding the gambler in each of us, it just feels the developers are taking advantage of whoever is eager to get the things inside them or crazy enough to buy them.

    And if Proxy is right (and the way he presented his case, it seems he hit the bullseye), then the matter goes from taking advantage to being straight up dishonest, with manually induced low rates.
    • Like x 19
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