DCUO population is bleeding off after EG7 announcement

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Mᴏrph, Oct 20, 2023.

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  1. Aiden_Warren Well-Known Player

    More likely for ice tank, need 200 skill points or more.
    I still see Leagues recruiting that only lets ppl in with 400+ skill points, but contradicts that in Gender equality. Let's new female players join.
    For guys, we need this and that, as girls, not a problem, elitists will help carry new female players as they are not told they don't need this and that and are offered help.
    Guys are told they need 400+.
    But yeah, I'll help any new players, I'll help new players with feats grind. I'm in no way to neglect guys and make such direct approaches to females.
    Many guys needs to let the females breathe and room and enjoy the game.
    • Like x 1
  2. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I'd go more with the EU thing and running with friends and league more often.

    And yeah...maybe it would only come up with an under performing toon, but I'd expect MOST people who would be classified as 'casual' to be under performing vs some guy with max everything who's been here since beta. The point was it's not necessarily coming from a point where the casual really WANTS to compete with the high end beta player, but where they are told they are bad for NOT competing with them.

    And yeah, maybe it happens more over here. I was in a pug run of CTR last night and the 5th place DPS who was doing ok even at 308CR ....but was 5th place by a pretty good margin, had a kick vote thrown at them. It was shot down, but the point was that simply by being in 5th place...which someone has to be in 5th if there are 5 dps...someone thought he needed to go. And this is for a reg, non-feat run. That kind of stuff happens around here more often than it should.

    I'd guess if the guy had been kicked, if left asking why he was kicked, artis/allies/sp, etc...would have been brought up.

    And no...it wasn't me. I was in 2nd place by about 15M to a 428 prec DPS. Which I'm fine with.
    • Like x 4
  3. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Most groups I've been in, the girl just needs a mic and cute voice and ability to put up with mouth breathers.

    Man....a guy can't catch a break in this world.
    (sarcasm)
    • Like x 3
  4. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    This is mostly inaccurate information

    You didnt need to get every feat for sp in the game to play at a high level in this game, Not ever not then and not now.. You just needed to max out whatever role you were in, and I believe for the first year or 2 it was only around 80-86 sp needed to max out the role you were doing at that time. You did not need every feat in the game to achieve this, yes you would probably have to dabble in pvp to get it quicker, but it wasn’t 100% necessary and you could achieve this far quicker then it takes to max out even one artifact or ally now… My first feat was awarded september 23 2011… i played for a few months then stopped around christmas didnt even have 1 piece of vendor gear then not tier 1 not tier 2 and especially not tier 3 i had whatever was dropped to me, i come back to march 2012 (after battle for earth came out) and by april whether i wanted to tank or dps i had enough skill points to max out the role to play at a high level) you as it is today and it was then you didnt pick up every skill point in the game for each role… you picked up role specific skill points, plus health and defense if you wanted or needed more survivability. so no you never needed to get all the feats in the game to play at an elite level… of course i was in a great league back then and i was getting skill points left and right since the league i joins focus was getting its members up to the latest end game content .

    You are wrong about best gear not being in vendor, yes you could get best gear in vendor the first few years, it wasnt til origin crisis did they make it to where you had to run nexus and paradox to get the epic gear in game and vendor gear was only rare in quality, that was 2 years after the launch of the game, i guess you could argue hand of fate did this as well since you had to get the plans to make the gear which you then had to use marks to buy the mats to make the gear, howevever that gear was considered “4.5 tier” gear it was just half a level above vendor gear and did not make or break a players ability to compete at a high level.. and the origin crisis set up was so disliked by the community, that by the next dlc they brought back epic vendor gear, and you could get slightly better gear running the content of war of the light but it was only 1 or 2 cr higher.. again it wouldnt make or break someone running at an elite level at all.

    By the time origin crisis came around need/greed/pass was phased out this was never an issue for origin crisis, you didnt have to fight other people for the loot at all it was the case the first two years however, but in terms of gearing up you only really had to worry about was face mask, and weapons, which the central city ones were good enough to play at a high level prior to origin crisis the difference between stats was negligible, and no one wanted dropped rings or necks they wanted promethium lock box rings and necks, and not just any they wanted the the perfect ones that gave you the stats you wanted along with the mod slot you wanted, i dont recall when these finally dropped off as best in slot but i believe even during origin crisis these were best in slot… could be wrong there i know for sure by the first war of the light i had replaced them.

    Exos were a problem if you were lazy or didnt have money to buy them on broker, I have a route that ive used and still use to this day to collect them and it always netted me a ton of exos in a short time and i always did this about a week before a new dlc dropped so i would already have the right amount of exos for each piece of gear.

    miserable is correct the game allowed people to go from 0-high level of play within a far shorter amount of time then it would take today due to how pivotal allys and artifacts are to the way the game is played now. it would take 4-6 months of daily play to reach that goal back then which is a reasonable time frame.
    • Like x 1
  5. Miserable Dedicated Player


    So yeah, perhaps it doesn't help to look at 2011 - 2017 as one single period where things were constant, as the game evolved in many ways over those years. Just for reference, I've been around since 2012 (started sometime between LS and BFE).

    So, could they? I think so. I certainly don't mean overnight. It still took work. But it was possible in what I consider a reasonable timeframe and at a reasonable cost. There was definitely grinding in the game before (skill points, exobits for mods, etc.), but it always felt attainable. The horizon was always in sight.

    Plus, you could control how much you grinded. There was no limit to how many exobits you could farm or how many feats you could complete in a week. Artifact and ally XP is a very different style of grinding. Players don't mind putting in the hours, but when you impose a timeframe on how long it'll take to achieve something and the finish lines seems too far away, it's a big turn-off.

    Going back to alts pre-artifacts, feat unlocking definitely helped, as did recovery kits, as did the ability to get resets from other players. The period from 2014 - 2016 was probably the sweet spot for many aspects of the game, especially alts.

    I won't deny that I look back fondly on the early years, but I've been maintaining multiple characters since I started playing and there is no doubt whatsoever that it's more costly to do so now than it was before.
    • Like x 2
  6. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    for me i feel like the art and ally system is designed to give us a sort of “set gear” system other mmos adopt within their gear, it kind of opens up “creativeness” in our builds although like all of these types of systems whether it be allys and artifacts or set gear from other games.. the meta takes over and you have a whole swath of arts or allys rendered useless by the community.

    i liked the idea of these systems when first announced but quickly found i didnt like the implementation of the system… the fact that you have to figure out the best situation in order to level them up is ridiculous, it would have been much better if it was simple as it is presented to us initially by constantine in game, run content feed artifact til its time to upgrade it until maxed out…. instead now most people hold on to the nth metal wait for that goldilocks zone to use it and then do other means to jump through hoops to get the most out of upgrading them..

    heres my thing why are people so dug in defending this system that is a bad system most he peopel i know who play this game hate this system which is reflective on these forums.. a only a few people here actually defend it there are a lot more people here from what i see that dislike it more then there are that like it.

    devs must also be questioning it when you have mepps asking people why they dont like it..

    and the vast majority of the responses are it takes too long and the way you level it up are the issues….

    if they made it to where it was feasible to get 6 artifacts maxed out in 1 year from just daily play and feeding your artifacts with out having to wait for special bonuses or using ridiculous methods to get the most of it, if we were to just do as constatine says in game run content get nth metal feed artifact upgrade artifact it would be a lot better for everyone .. this includes allys. The people who want to max these things out day one are still gonna do it with their wallets.
    • Like x 2
  7. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Probably because telling someone their arts are not good enough is a less confrontational way of telling them to "git gud". Although it's also true, that people initiate kicks for other reasons, like personal animosity, or just to troll. Underperforming players would likely be discriminated against, even if they had all 200 meta arts. "Sweaty" players, who have been playing since beta and want to breeze through their runs generally don't want inexperienced/underperforming players, or alts in their runs, full stop. Before arts it was SP, which at least you could lie about, unless someone took the time to look up your toon on census. The solution might be - in my view - to make your own group and accept all those other casual players, who haven't got their meta arts leveled and therefore can't run with "sweaties". But then - you'd likely end up in a group full of underperforming players with no one to carry it, so the run might be pretty hard. And casual players like easy runs, where someone else does most of the work and doesn't complain about it...

    And I'm sure the fact, that the population on US server is much higher and it's easier to find a better replacement is why people making groups are more picky and have high requirements for joining, or why they're quick to kick people. I PUG the latest raid every week on toons with 80 arts and no allies, except Krypto, or even ones with 0 arts, lv1 Calculator-Bot and no mainframe stuff - I haven't been kicked, or even confronted about it once.

    I seriously doubt, that if inexperienced/underperforming players could easily get 200 arts, they'd be easily accepted into or tolerated in groups made up of better players. At least now they can be let down more gently, by being told to take their time, running easier content and leveling arts. Without that - they'd just be told they're bad, or not told anything at all, which kind of situation I occasionally see even on EU server, with players, who have all the best stuff, but are still unable to play well.

    I'd never think it was you.
  8. Miahztwin Committed Player

    I wouldn't say the game is dying. But there is less engagement required for this DLC. Most of my leaguemates are 430cr and ready for the elite plus to drop since week 1. I think this DLC was just incredibly easy/less time consuming than recent DLCs. That being said. See you guys out in the Extra Life content.
  9. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    And yet - "altoholics" always complained. 4-6 months is not a long time in an old-school MMORPG, especially for a new player. And of course it was easier, when there was less stuff to get and less content to play in the game, although since it was all loot-locked, and access to episodes needed to be paid for getting into the endgame wasn't possible in a day, or 2 like it is now, for free.

    Some might say, that having more things to do and more ways to improve your toons, so that you're not done and bored with the game in a "reasonable time-frame" (whatever that means) is a good thing. But I guess there's no pleasing some people.
  10. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player


    I don't know how much money they're receiving. But 5 years is a long time for a game. City of Heroes lasted less than 8 and that was in the golden age of MMORPGs. Considering that almost all MMORPGs have been losing players for many years, it stands to reason, that DCUO is not making as much money as 5 years ago, not to mention, that fewer people see it as a good investment for the future, or a lucrative, stable career, hence fewer investors probably want to put money into it, and fewer developers want to work on it.

    There are all sorts of things that could be happening behind closed doors, that we as players are not privy to and I doubt a community manager would be willing or allowed to explain the inner workings of the company to us. It's a live service game, nothing is guaranteed, especially that the game is built on a 3rd party license, which - depending on the contract - might make it unwise to sink money into. We can take it or leave it - I doubt getting angry about it will make much of a difference.
  11. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    My point was that the attitude where a casual would adopt this 'I must have all max stuff' is not likely coming direct from the casual themselves, but from the other players. Personally I think kicking someone just because they are underperforming, unless that is resulting in an extremely bad run, or they are shirking their duties (like a troll who won't troll) is bogus and one of the problems with our community. Just because 3 or 4 sweaties are willing to go the extra mile to shave off 1 min on a 10 min run, doesn't mean it should be a requirement for the whole group. Now...if you are dying dis proportionately, or doing something that is detrimental...sure, kick away. Or if it's a burn-centric feat like a speed feat, I can see it. But I've seen on more than one occasion someone kicked or just plain harassed for being the low dps, and yeah...most of it will revolve around inspectable things....whether they are really 'wrong' or not. It's not that uncommon, at least over here.

    The best part is that if the kick had went through, likely the new person would not have been in the next fight, or would have come in more than a minute or so later from random queue....negating any 'gain' by kicking a low DPS.
    Never say never...I've come in last before. And I'm not sweating that. But I would say it was me if I get booted....it's happened before....it will happen again. Honestly I found that I'm more likely to be booted for healing or trolling an alert....you know...cause that's a crime too.
    • Like x 3
  12. Furious Vee Well-Known Player

    I hate when people try to act oblivious to current state of the game. Yes, we all love the game (or else we wouldn't be here) but it takes literally nothing from anyone to admit the game is dying. It's natural. No game lasts forever. Just be honest.

    Edit: Also, the EG7 is a hot topic in the DCUO community. I've seen it be discussed on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, and even the game itself. A lot of people are pulling back from the game after the EG7 news. A few people on the forums who think they know what they're talking about does not account for the entire playerbase.
    • Like x 4
  13. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player


    I don't doubt that. However, my post you originally quoted was a response to another post, positing a situation, where a hypothetical new player wants to play all 4 roles at Elite level asap and is prevented from doing so by the requirement of owning 30 artifacts at rank 160 or higher (which is highly debatable, but that's beside the point). And my point was, that this expectation - which comes from that player, not anyone else - is not reasonable and should not be used as the benchmark for how easy artifacts should be to level. There are plenty things for a casual players to do - 12-years-worth of solo, open world, event and regular content, not to mention what's left of PvP - where I don't believe even on US server requirements and community expectations are so high. Elite is called "Elite" for a reason, even if it seems to have become a lot easier lately. And if you level arts, allies and get SP for 1 role on 1 toon first, learn to perform well and prove to other players that you're good - they just might be more accepting of your other toons being under-geared. At least in my personal experience.

    No argument from me there. And as I said - that doesn't happen often on EU server. I can PUG EG raids with no artifacts, or allies and less than 100SP, with no issues. And I've run Elite alerts and raids with groups of strangers on toons with 120 arts and less than 200 SP.

    Maybe the difference is due to the fact, that on less populated servers people are happy to get a group together at all and are therefore a lot more understanding and forgiving, even towards players, who are actually f-ing up. So perhaps shrinking population on US server is not bad news after all... ;)

    It seems that the problem is with the community, rather than with the artifact or ally system. And if people are being kicked or harassed in runs that are not going horribly, simply because of their score, I'm not sure those people having higher level artifacts would solve the issue, especially that everyone else would also have higher level artifacts and more swap artifacts, so some DPS would still be the lowest and potentially considered sub-par to requirements, especially if their high rank arts were deemed incorrect by the group.

    Which makes me think, that the reason for starting the votekick might have been other than just the score. There are countless situations, where someone has a grudge against someone else - for having been kicked previously by a group involving the person, losing a duel, having an argument in chats, et cetera. People are weird like that and there are a few people I would happily kick from my group myself, if I got the chance, regardless of how well, or how poorly they performed.

    I've been kicked once on EU server, that I remember. It happened very recently. I was running the regular JLDC alert on an alt with a PUG, everything was going smoothly, but I got kicked just after the first boss - presumably as soon as the option became available. The toon has only 80 arts, I wasn't checking the score, but I doubt I was far, if at all behind, considering the speed of the burn and the fact that other players were mostly lower CR than I was. Nobody said anything and I didn't ask why - I just requeued and finished the alert with another PUG. Of course - I took note of the names and if I get the chance to get back at any of them (the chance of which is fairly high on an underpopulated server, where I have 8 active toons), before I forget about it - I just might take it. And "the cycle of violence" will continue... :p
    • Like x 1
  14. Aiden_Warren Well-Known Player

    I'd like for content to reward significantly more cash for members.
    From all content in the game.
    Seals of preservation to drop often through latest episodes content.

    Let's be positive and make suggestions that can keep the game alive?

    Triple Source Marks episode Spotlights
    Triple Stabilizers Week
    Catalysts and Seal of Preservation and Bonus Artifact XP week.
    I don't know. More bonus weeks stuff.
    Make suggestions, keep positive, help keep the game alive.
    Give the devs positive vibes and support.
  15. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    What else can I think about you? if you are not able to do such elementary arithmetic operations as: (10x48x650x5x2=3120000)...

    Perhaps the system will change at some point, but at the moment it is what it is and I have listed most of the sources of nth metal that, to a greater or lesser extent, influence the final results of the calculations; in total, they greatly influence the final figures.
  16. Multiverse Creator League


    Did you ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf??

    The problem with people saying the game is dying.... or the game is dead....
    is that people have been saying that for 12 years.... or more.

    Heck wayyy back when in 2019 I made a video about it.
    Already back then.... the game was dead according to some.



    And here we are in 2023 still not dead.

    Yes... the EG7 video did hurt... hard.

    I see it in my numbers... It dropped from 140K views to around 100K in the blink of an eye once we got the EG7 video.

    I can't recall the last time my view dropped below 100K??
    Although just a bit.... but 99.6K is still below 100K.... although briefly.... it did go back over 100K.... but still ... that is a big drop.

    Last time I saw a drop of about 30% was when we got the Clamp.
    Although at the time it did not drop below 100K.

    So yes.... that EG7 video did hurt....
    but does that mean the game is dead??

    No.

    Again... the Clamp did hurt about as much....
    and the game is still here.

    No reason the game cannot bounce back from this as well.
    Although it will depend on what the Devs do next to try to improve the game and bring back more people.

    I guess we will have to wait and see.
    • Like x 4
  17. Multiverse Creator League


    Where else can we play as Superman.... Flash... Green Lantern??

    Where else can we fight the EEViLLL Joker..... Lex Luthor... Darkseid??

    Where else can we fly in Metropolis.... or run at Super Speed in Central City??

    DCUO offers us something no one else does.

    If it was that easy.... we would have a Marvel MMO by now offering us as much..... or more.

    Heck when Marvel made a MMO... it was like playing Diablo. And now that game is gone.

    Marvel struggled to make the Avengers game. And the game is no longer on the PSN store.
    And it was not even a MMO.

    People don't seem to realize that DCUO offers us a unique experience that no one else does.

    That... is why we are still here. ;) ;)
    • Like x 5
  18. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    The Clamp is the reason I don’t spend any more money than the cost of my subscription on DCUO. It’s the only way I can reprimand the Company by with holding my $$$.

    If they ever steal my stats again I will quit.
    • Like x 2
  19. Multiverse Creator League


    I'm sure you are not alone. :oops:

    Although many did quit when we got the Clamp.

    At least... you are still here. ;)
    • Like x 3
  20. Furious Vee Well-Known Player

    That's the thing. DCUO is a niche game and there are no other competitors at the moment. Competition inspires progress; but make no mistake, if the the game continues to follow down this route without any changes, it will eventually die out. As I've stated, DCUO is a niche game. It's not a game with a massive fanbase like GTA or the Sims (two games that have little competition in their genre). They can't afford to skip a beat like other games.
    • Like x 2
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