Work In Progress DCUO Development Update - July 2021 - House of Legends Discussion

Gotcha thx for reply

I love reasons.

OMG I am even more excited now, thank you for replying

I still have to see the logic in not having source marks (loot locked) in end game content. I know you want the players to have to play older content, but really? We have to play older content to earn source marks? Why not let like it is today for the players that do not want to run content they don´t want?

...don't run it if you don't want to? I mean, how is this different from today? If you don't want to run content X, don't. You can't get the rewards from it though. Oh, you still need that style? That base item? That collection? Welp, decisions to make.

Because today we do get source marks from endgame?

Copied from announcement thread

Cryptic as always. I expect nothing less!

all I know is I'm already playing the game less. haven't even bothered logging in today. honestly, the very idea of stat clamping all old content, & then forcing us to have to play clamped content to earn marks, & the realisation that now we are never ever getting adjustable / solo queues into old content has pretty much killed any enthusiasm I had for the game. all I get now every time I pick up my controller is that sneaking horrible voice in the back of my head saying " oh, why bloody bother? "

I'm gonna ask this again, because no one answered the first time, but does the no marks thing apply to event content, too? or are event versions going away? because the removal of marks from event content effectively kills my alts stone dead.

It works on time and simple math. If it takes 1 toon X time to run the dailies in Legion and FP (including the FP duo and both alerts), that gets them ep marks and source. Meaning if all they have is X time or X time per toon, they now will have to spend that same time + Y time to run the older content to now get source. And sorry, however you slice it... (X+Y) > X (and no math fans....in this case Y cannot be a negative...time does not run negative). The change is now forcing you to either run less time in the current content in favor of running old content, or run more time to include the old content you MIGHT not have ran by choice...per TOON by the way unless source will be account bound (sounds like it's not).

At least we get marks from open worlds. Come join me in Atlantis, we can stare at fish together. It’s very relaxing.

lol. well, at least six of my toons'll be able to go fish-gazing, I guess. doesn't help the other ten, though, sadly. mind you, I suppose the one good thing is that if I do decide to drop me membership at least I won't have to bother buying up the extra slots, 'ey?

Aside from the pretty fish, I feel an 8 man group in OW bounties will make out much better for quick marks than random queuing. Without even doing the 'kill count' missions for 8 each (7 of those total, so 56 more marks if you did those), there are 'bounty' or relatively quick 'count' missions that wouldn't even require a group (portals, motes, treasures) where you can net 208 marks and never queue up anything. I'd guess a decent 8 man group could knock these out in an hour or 90 min top to bottom....probably less time than 1 or 2 raids if things go south. This is also not including the 'do 4 days missions for x person' in Titans, M2 and BOP. Only looking at one and done stuff.

WOL1 - Mist bounty - 8
WOL2 - Dr Light - 8
HOP - Commander - 8
E3 - Syndicate Boss - 8
AOJ - skipping the 'invasion force' one as it's dependent on all 4 bosses spawning...could take a long or short time...but 8 there too.
Deluge - Starro, tests, bonus rooftop starfish - 24
TT - Giant Bot and Jinx, Giz, Mammoth, Psymon - 16
Atlantis - Swarm, Hulk, TB's - 24 (not shabby....but....)
JLD - Shadow Golem, Shogg, Giant Pod, Motes - 32 (the mother load)
M1 - Metal Manbat, Metal Titan, portals - 24
M2 - Synn, Nth Golem - 16
BOP - Meta, Calc - 16
WV - 1 of 4 bosses, Hydra, Circe stones - 24
These won't be source yet, but eventually....
LL - 1 of 4 bosses, more stones, Screens/antenna - 24
FP - DD bounty, 100/Generals - 16

I guess that does take the edge off source farming, but it would further impact queues. So yea! for OW pop.... So instead of "league raid night" or "League feat night", we might see a lot of "League bounty night".

Eh, fair. I don't think, "because it's the status quo now" should mean nothing ever changes though. Right now we're able to double-dip from endgame stuff by getting two types of marks. I'm honestly surprised that's the case and very unsurprised they're talking about making that the single episode relevant mark.

I've been mansplained to a lot in my life, but most people don't mathsplain to me. Might have something to do with the math degree.

I understand time, thanks. I'm still of the opinion (and yes, I do realize it's an opinion), that source marks coming from old content is fine. If you need to buy things from those old vendors? I understand why you would have to run older content to then get those marks.

Maybe to both 9001BPM & Reinheld's points, if the concern has to do with buying things that you use for endgame (rent payments & artifact stuff) then some type of mark conversion would be beneficial. Because I totally agree, if you find more value from running endgame content and that's what you have time for, why should you be unable to maintain the base amenities/high-level artifacts you're using there?

Sorry.... you math degree is not listed in your bio. Wasn't trying to talk down or insult...just putting it plainly...and I figured someone was going to chime in with 'Yeah...what if Y = -3'? So I nipped it first.

And your wrapup point still leaves the issue of having to run more than you do today. If I make casino tokens into source, I need to run more for the casino tokens I need to get FP stuff. Yes, I'm running it anyway, but maybe have to reset or use more alts. And lets face it the biggest Source drain is the Artifact cats. The rent 35 source will probably be manageable with the daily grant income more than likely even if you never ran anything else but 1000+ marks to level an arti isn't peanuts.

The OW bounties will probably be more than enough for most, assuming you get a group of 8 and mow them all down in one sitting for 208 marks. Still more time, but less than trying to pound out 10 or 20 raids. I know it's going to be a target for me to do a round each week if I can to avoid HAVING to quick queue into a questionable run. Not saying I won't run any...just don't want to HAVE to....which is the major complaint.

Because it's not going to have the desired effect it would seem you want.

Perhaps im wrong and this may not be you personally, but there are individuals thinking this endless source mark yield in early game is going to create this utopia of old vast swathes of content being played with queues popping in abundance.

I strongly think that view is horribly optimistic, veterans aren't going to run lots of old content, some might run some if they need styles but anyone who is largely done with it all isn't going to do that.

The top end veterans and probably loosely numerous others are going to be as equally absent if not more absent from old content because they won't bother dealing with the clamping.

They'll find the easiest content to farm that's the most time efficient, they'll farm that ad nauseam until they have the marks they need or want because it's the path of least resistence, because that ultimately is the way this community has always behaved.

I understand what you're saying, but a little off base for me, yeah.

I've been pretty transparent thus far, I'm a huge fan of the stat clamping. My reasoning has nothing to do with thinking it's going to solve some sort of queue draught or anything, though. And while I can understand the arguments everyone is making about wanting to feel powerful, I also know that infinite stats is unsustainable. Which, if you never set an upper bound to where a person can be in a piece of content is what you have. It's similar to why we got clipping nerfs back in the day.

I also kind of wish folks would stop making overgeneralized comments during these debates. I am a veteran. I will once again be at endgame or top end as you said. And I'm one of those people who will randomly queue old content because I find it fun. I like to get PUGs. I like making guides and feat vids, and teaching others. It's kind of my jam. Maybe that puts me in a minority of endgame folks, but it certainly negates the idea that anyone done with the old stuff will never run it.

That being said, your final point is one that I know we'll do as well. Yes, we'll queue old content for the lolz. But if we need marks, and we most definitely have some catching up to do, we've already been talking about what we think the most efficient routes to get them will be.

Yea, I get that and apologies if I was tagging you in a group of people I highlighted were being errantly optimistic

Ive definitely just seen comments in here since these changes that make me shiver a little where they think this change is going to spark immense change to queue times and that this change is being made to help queue times.

Just for the sake of open discussion, I don't really think this is being done for queue times at all, I'd tend to agree with you that it's probably more about the inevitable control of stat power creep and it being the easiset way to control that while beinv opportunistic in terms of appealing to a structural change in membership.

The devs would have had a harder time pushing stat clamping into the game had it not incorporated all the rest of the changes being put forward here at the same time.

I appreciate there are nostalgia runs that occur all vets do that, including myself, they're easily though the minority of my runs and often I do them for fun, the same reason as you, that 'fun' element though might become a bit less though if the runs take that much longer and are filled with ineptitude.

I'm quite happy to help people struggling but where that will stop, will be the minute that talk back to me, like help isn't required, despite the obviousness that it is, I won't be rude in trying to offer constructive help, but the moment that turns to rudeness back, I'll be out of there

Same...haven't logged in since the announcement

I kinda love the fact that folks are assuming that "Stat Clamping" is going to be the "end all be all" of some content. I mean, I'll just name drop an mmo that not only has done this "dreaded" Stat clamping the majority seem to be fear mongering as an insta failure, but has generally brought its community closer cause of it to help overcome the challenges most of the new guys tend to face since they can't just be "carry blasted" to endgame without it being in place.

Final Fantasy 14

I've been playing said game for years and am taking a break due to burnout. However, their Stat clamping (level syncing as it's known there) makes it so the veterans are able to guide those new folks through the content so they can actually (well, hopefully) learn something on their own.

However, in the case of FFXIV, they took it too far by having our skills we earned from endgame not be able to be used. THAT was what I have had/heard the majority of the complaints about their system.

In DCUOs case, being locked out of abilities to use while clamped WON'T happen since said content starts at lvl 30 where the majority has every ability by that point. (besides those running event content but, is that really a factor??)

Anyway.. I'm personally STRONGLY for this system of it as it'll really show us all who got carried to the endgame versus those that actually MADE there way to endgame.