Test Discussion Damage Supercharge Balance - Update

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Mepps, Feb 26, 2021.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Hey all, quick update to clarify some things.

    First, these changes were not part of Game Update 111 (the next game update), and they will only launch when they are ready.

    Second, we put things on the test server because we want your feedback. Playing the changes, considering things missed, and relating what you think your experience will be are crucially important to us. In this case, we did so without the proper communication and context, and we regret the hate-panic that invited. We still want your thoughts.

    Third, what are we even doing? We are looking to respond to your feedback (and agree with it) that our powersets and abilities should be more consistent and balanced. This can't be a one-change-fixes-all thing - we have to do it in pieces and over time. Supercharges in particular and for many reasons don't look the same powerset to powerset.

    Fourth, and finally, balance changes like this will come in the future. Even after all the testing there can be, you still may not like some of the changes, they still may force you to adjust your play, and no single round will make all powersets or your powerset balanced. The best way to impact that is to calmly offer your thoughts.

    So what's next? These changes will remain as-is on the test server for a while longer so that anyone interested can dig in and relate feedback. They'll come down before the next game update, and then return again in a different form for further testing later on. Please ask any questions you have. Thanks!
    • Like x 8
  2. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    It took me hours to sharpen my pitchfork tho. Well said Mepps, think we all freaked out a bunch but that's mob mentality I guess. Good to hear this will be something that takes time/ give plenty of chance for testing. Guess it's time to figure out how to help instead of helping light the torches
    • Like x 3
  3. zNot Dedicated Player

    People tend to get angry quick whenever you guys perform or about to perform power related updates please dont focus on such negative comments from people that didnt even test properly they are a minority its pretty obvious that certain supercharges needs to be reworked on and i hope in the future to see gadgets that is currently overperforming nerfed once you look into abilities etc. good luck and thanks for the hard work!
    • Like x 3
  4. Toxic Disaster New Player

    Atomic and Ice are the weakest of the tank powers in terms of dps'ing. The revamp to Freeze Ray for Ice will give it a potentially new identity as a single target power. However, I highly suggest revamping Atomic Blast to sort of mirror Freeze Ray except lowering the damage and making it a 5000 supercharge. Atomic lacks single target damage especially because all of its combo powers hit multiple targets. Earth has entomb, Rage has Berserk, and Fire has multiple strong single target powers. Ice and Atomic are clearly the outliers of the tank powers and its good to see Ice get some love however I'd like to see Atomic receive some help considering the current state of the meta.
    • Like x 4
  5. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I understand that this is “Testing Feedback” and that the feedback from testing the changes on test server is the most valuable. But also remember that A: you’ve given us the modifier figure, B. we can test the current damage on live server, C. Most if not all of us have phones with a calculator app and D. Many of us have a lot of experience and deep enough understanding of DPS damage and it’s various elements to form an educated and likely accurate idea of how these changes will impact the game. Considering all that, I feel like opinions and viewpoints from those of us without access to the test server can and will offer valuable and idas that are worth consideration and inclusion in the discussions and debates on this topic.

    I bring this up because the primary thread on the flurry shot changes was quickly closed due to a lack of feedback specific to test server testing results. But the vast majority of that thread consisted of mostly constructive, informed and respectful debate on the game-wide impact. Most experienced precision DPS’s knew the EXACT value of the 4th tick and what it meant to lose it, Despite all that, our opportuinity to continue to debate and explore the topic was rendered frivolous and not worth allowing to continue. This time around, I really hope you guys will be more open to considering feedback from us test server outcasts who actually know what we’re talking about.
    • Like x 9
  6. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Personally, the changes were looking good and made a lot of sense. A significant number of SCs were crippling bad and I was curious why a lot of them were not on the list. I would assume that it was just a first pass.
    • Like x 2
  7. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    If you mean non damaging supers, those aren't a part of this revamp. Or do you mean they didn't touch some dps ones?
  8. L T Devoted Player

    That's really not a bad idea!
  9. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm kind of tired and was running on memory instead of looking back at the list. lol
    • Like x 1
  10. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Obviously only a guess but I'm thinking this is all being done as a 1st step to bring all supers in line before each powerset gets looked into. So while we will most likely dislike what happens "soon", we may be ok with the improvements to each powerset that are lacking that will happen eventually. Also guessing dps side of each power comes 1st. So if we take rage as an example, the 8s that was 13 before will result in less damage now but maybe the devs already know that rage is going to be one of the buffed powersets. And on the flip side, the freakout of gadgets getting buffed may seem fantastic now but once the whole powerset is nerfed, it could be just average in a few months.

    For now, I'm going with having some faith personally. Without actually getting on test, we can't say much even if we really do know the end results. Devs may be looking for results that work for their plans later. Hopefully. Also kinda hopeful that nothing changes till after balance passes and all this is for a later date. Circuit breaker comes to mind. Like yeah, clearly now it looks crippling but maybe they also know the buff is coming to help
    • Like x 1
  11. August Moon Well-Known Player

    i do feel relieved that these changes wont be rushed into the new update, but im scratching ,my head at the approach to all of it . mainly why supercharges was touched so soon despite them being the enhancers of the powers.

    i would have figured that the powers themselves would be the start, on the count that most tank powers are hard stuck into precsion because the ranged might alternatives do little to no damage, but troll and some healer powers excel in long range might, which makes people not want to be a tank power (the only exception to that rule is fire but its best powers are wild fire {aoe} , snuff out {st} and absorb heat {st} which pushes it into a single target role which.....on bosses like trigon or lady black hawk or grail where adds need to die fast , doesn't exactly help
    • Like x 4
  12. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Another guess but maybe done this way to show the community that they aren't targeting 1 specific group. Like if they went at rage and nerfed it, rage players would light the torches. If they buffed water, sorcery players would grab the pitchforks and ask why not us??

    Could also just be that they have a plan that they aren't keen on sharing yet and this has to happen 1st. They shared this and look how that went lol. Anyways, I'm staying out of it all unless I figure out how to get on test. See if i can help us help them maybe.
    • Like x 1
  13. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    Just an idea, I would rather Gadgets have weaker supers across the board (looking at the Bunker Buster nerf), than have its base damage or other aspects of it like Stealth cooldown nerfed into the ground in the future. This would make it more boring to play. The ability to use multiple supers because of stealth or invisibility should mean that the supers don't need to be as strong, in my opinion.

    This line of reasoning is something I've applied to lots of powers. I feel like if most supers are balanced out, it's going to take a long time for the powersets themselves to be balanced out, and even then, that's not guaranteed to happen. Certain supers being more powerful on certain powersets definitely helps them keep up i.e. Entomb, Oblivion.
  14. Stardazer Committed Player

    The miscommunication and timing were definitely to blame for this hate-panic that ensued. Given the already general dissapointment with the cost/levelling of artifacts, anticipated double artifact XP, and the impending Surivial Mode, people began panicing on what to do. Damage is a huge part of the combat system and people want to output high damage whilst enjoying their powers and playstyle without being boxed into a "meta".

    I know a few voices in my league were extremely upset and confused as to what to do now, scrambling to level artiffacts and figure out loadouts before Surivial Mode comes out.
    • Like x 3
  15. SilkyPawz Bunny

    Hi Mepps,
    I'm glad you all aren't rushing these changes, while I do believe some SC are more OP than others you have to counter in that is probably the only thing that power has going for itself.

    Example: Quantum, it struggles to keep up with Gadgets, but with it's SC Oblivion it has a small chance of not being total crap when it comes to damage and keeping up.

    The powers themselves need to be really looked at and worked on before these SC changes, we have so many under performing powers and for years, unless your precision, Mental, Ice, Atomic, HL, while these powers might be good at either AOE or ST but not both, they are on the bottom of the list. I hope you can take that into consideration when making changes.

    Thank you :)
    • Like x 8
  16. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    I agree the powersets themselves should be evaluated first. I however feel the most effective way to do this to categorize a group 4 or 5 similar powersets at a time, see which 1 is the gold standard for that category, & make changes to meet the mark (this doesn't mean everything should be cookie cutter). I feel this is how healthy adjustments are made similar to how the buffs for tanks were handled. In that fashion the other tank powers were on a more lvl playing field without them nerfing rage into oblivion.
  17. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    I agree with you on not nerfing gadgets (or any power/play-style) into a worthless mess. You think increasing its non troll sc cooldowns to 60secs is meaningful enough to not be overly harsh on its sc reduction if its supers are the safest way to adjust it?
  18. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Oh absolutely. I’ve been trying to tell everyone that since last night. My point was that I hope they listen to input that isn’t directly and specifically regarding test server testing. If an SC is currently hitting for an average of 800K and they tell us there’s a 25% reduction, you don’t need to be on test server to know it will be hitting for 600K and what that means for the power.
    • Like x 2
  19. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Exactly this and from what I've saw with the earth jackhammer glitch that turned it from only close range to close range and single target long range , changes can be made to suit it . maybe playing around with some powers , adding in a few new ones that cover the issues. Quantum would be at least decent if they fixed the split power interaction , canned time bomb or at least sped it up so bosses cant walk out of it , incrased the range for Alcubierre wave to long range instead of mid range and gave it a stealth like ability .....maybe call it phase shift ( if pendagaton can shift out of phase why cant we?) and maybe lets look into electricity's polarized side too because that's been cinderella without the happy ending for years now
    • Like x 1
  20. AD Leo Well-Known Player

    What's going to happen is if this hits live as is there's gonna be another shift in power and more imbalance. Tinkering with the SC's because they can't adjust the Arts is like going around the wrist to get to the elbow.
    • Like x 1
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