Sidenote If I wanted to cheese that situation, I could get a group of 3 controllers and 3 dps. My HL ram-whip spam was like 56k on 3 targets when I did it. If I can maintain that with 3 trolls, that's a huge upgrade from 40k which was might spec, or the 30-35k I got when I dipped or did prec specs. HL can reach in high 40s/50s with power and easily get close to a 40% damage increase compared to another dps. At that point, for 3C + 3D, that 3D is really 3*1.4 = 4.2D. Which makes the tradeout 1C + 5D = 3C + 4.2D. 0.8DPS trade off for 2C. And that's assuming a prec spec for the 5D. If those are might spec'd and they have dips, where it's really in the 4.somethingD, that's a losing comparison. And it wouldn't be the first time in dcuo's history where a raid group has stacked one power to exploit its current damage *cough* Mental DPS for Darkseid *cough* *cough* 2-3 HL's in 1 nexus run *cough*
What about rotations using bot clipping? Are these things considered to be legitimate rotations that will influence balance or are they seen as cheese?
Lol. Seems like you got the same response that I did when asked the same question. Crickets. At this point I'm inclined to believe they know about bot clipping and just don't care or they have no way to fix it. Would be a good idea to change the description so players know that a bot is now a tool to increase dps.
Parser testing should be taken seriously. If the people testing things truly understand how things work theres no issue using them what so ever. They are the closest thing to seeing what powers really do. Where things have gotten messed up in the past with the parser is cause people don't understand what and how things work in different situations and thats why some powers are still behind on live server right now. In todays game on live with all the big booms parser testing missed things like setup times and such high damage spikes, but with how things are on test where we are back to doing small damage amounts things work out just fine with parsing on dummies. Like i said everything i do at the dummies has translated the same in raids that i've run. It all just comes down to the testers. Don't count out dummy parsing just cause its been went about wrong in the past and cause some don't fully understand the way things work and get incorrect results. With that being said you still need to run things to confirm dummy testing. Not saying they are the end all be all but after confirming your results in a raid those numbers can be taken seriously and should be. Also i think right now the majority of our testing should be done using mid-range or ranged loadouts to get that stuff straight and the rest will fall in line and if not we'll work on it. After all range, mid-range is whats going to be used in raids the majority of time. I want to be testing real usable stuff.
The game is changing and for the better imo. This one troll 5 dps meta is a sad way to play the game. Not only in the revamp will dps need more power then one troll can give but so will healers in some situations.
Hey.. you don't need to convince me, I'm extremely happy with this renewed necessity of support roles in content. I would even prefer seeing 2 of each role in a raid, and have more raids tailored to group splitting (FoS, Nexus, etc) and special role-based tasks (Troller - CC/Debuff, Interaction Mechanics, Co-ordination Mechanics). Making each Dps more potent while keeping them completely reliant on support roles is, imo, a good Meta.
I've done it repeatedly, dark has shown it, earns and og mentor are like two of the biggest dc yt'ers and both of them have videos using it, even some casual players have bot clips in their rotation as gadgets and munitions on yt and in game. It's impossible for them not to know about it, but as said before it's a trade off for something else and if you don't perfect it, you're only taking off like half a second or less of a rotation time for 1 bot use instead of the full second, which is still barely over a 1k difference for 30s reads. For single target, 20k dps is good damage for stats revamp. If I shave off 2 seconds every 30s parse, that's 40k extra damage. However, divided by 30 seconds, that means i'm only parsing 1,300 over another dps. We have a 3 minute boss fight, that's 3,600,000 damage compared to 3,840,000 IN PERFECT SITUATIONS. No one on controller including myself can do perfect bot clipping every 12 seconds off cooldown, let alone if you use 2 of them for a dot mental loadout where it's every 6 seconds, without making a mistake. Realistically, for most players, that'll only be in the 3.7mil's and not even 3.8 unless you went god mode for 3 minutes. PC can do it because you can change the key binding to make it easier/convenient, hand movements on a controller are a lot harder. The fact that you're still mad over someone getting a few hundred thousand extra damage at the cost of not having a soder, dps trinket, supply drop, or henchman baffles me. And as a side note, nowhere does it state that repair bots are meant for dps. Why do you need a description saying this is for dps'ing when THE NAME HAS REPAIR IN IT. It is a BOT for REPAIR. A new player is not going to read "repair bot" and think "omg I need this for dps'ing to go through my rotation faster". It's the same thing as phase dodge. Phase dodge was a defensive power that just so happened to be useful for clipping. Jumping is not a function in the game meant strictly for dps'ing, it's meant primarily for movement, it just so happens that you can use it for cancelling animations in various ways. If you don't want to bot clip, don't do it, but don't try to make some argument as if you can't dps without it or there aren't situations where you wouldn't want to have it or it's going to lead new players astray. No, that's just you being salty.
Geez people complaining about bot clipping? You guys really wanna make the combat slow and remove whatever skill another dps is using?
I'm simply stating that if it's intended than the players should be made aware of it. It's about time for the devs to comment on whether it is intended or if it's just cheese.
The fact you used to word cheese shows just how high your salt level are. I'm leaving my own thread, I might catch diabetes.
Realistically why would they do anything about it? I doubt every single bot used is a free one... I'm sure some of them have gotten purchased in the store before.. which would make them money. Not to mention the amount of damage you get out of it isn't truly worth it... seems like too much of a hassle for me.
It is cheese. The fact you wrote a 6 page essay earlier in this thread shows just how much you need it to be effective. #RealDpsdontuseexploits.
The issue isn't what happens on live server. I don't care what people do on live. It isn't my business. Generally people who bot clip are looked at as irrelevant anyways. But to do it during testing the revamp is irresponsible. Devs, possibly, are letting testers numbers influence the direction they go for powers. Whether over or under perfoming. Bot boy himself stated that there is an increase in damage using the bot. We all know this. But does the majority of the playerbase? Let's say that a power goes on live with numbers and a baseline that incorporated and later the repair bot actually gets fixed. Then that power would be underperforming. Exploits and glitches really don't have a place when it comes to testing the revamp.
But he stated that he isn't testing it with the bot clip. Even if he's doing comparison numbers with crappy who is, they both know better then to give numbers that was influenced from that, let alone him even bringing it up cause I swear it would've been kept in the dark and abused in the dark like other testers have done before. Not only that, but this revamp is not for new players exclusively. We'll give the baseline of what the powers can do by themselves(which we have been doing), but Im also gonna devote my time to mixing it up with my endgame style. If you hate bot clipping, you might as well argue to get rid of consumable clipping and jump canceling, since they both contribute to the extra effort that if a dps wants to put in to put more numbers out. Your so afraid of people having the tools to increase their dps that you just want to get rid of it altogether. And this ain't nothing new. Players been crying wolf, for why they're getting beat by other players and blaming the balance of the power or because its an exploit; but the real answer is that the other player just have more skill points and better rotations/loadout. If players are interested in learning how to increase their output then they will "research"(something thats missing alot in this playerbase currently) and will go to the lab. Even if they take out bot clipping i promise you something else will be found, and people will still cry wolf because someone else decided to put extra effort to top the charts.
Bot clipping and consumable clipping are different. Jump cancelling isn't intended either. Hence why people are complaining about fear gas. It was actually changed to what the devs think it should work like. Whether it's a good fix or not is irrelevant. It's how it's intended to work. Players just want to know if it's intended to have 1 repair bot that you can clip powers with over and over again. A quick response from the devs would answer the question. Some players don't use exploits and cheese. Some do. Not my business to say what another player can do. Just want confirmation from a dev.
How are they different? Both have a roughly small cooldown. A consumable thats not even related to damage can be use as a clipping tool( chronomatric emitter for example). Just because one have a quantity # then the other one? Even if the consumables canceling out from it is .5 secs longer then canceling out from a bot clip, they both still give an advantage over someone whos going through a rotation regular. If jump canceling wasn't intended it would be out of the game period. Them changing it to their version, is still jump canceling no matter what variation it is spoke or acts like. Its irrelevant to you, so you just want confirmation, thats fine by me and brings me to a stopping point from this thread. I won't let something like a repair bot be blown out of proportions because someone is against self discovery.
