Current and upcoming Elite+ (Feedback)

We went from 4 tanks swe+ to 1 tank swe+ n u still talk ths nonsense

I have no issue with delayed gratification. I've got armor feats from LOD, DK and SOBA to still get, but I'll get them when I get them. Heck, I still haven't killed 333 plant creatures in MOM, and it's not because I find it 'too hard' to get that...again, I'll get it when I get it if I put my mind to doing it.

The difference between those things or things that are deemed 'too hard' by some in content that WILL get easier, is the requirement of a class of players that will NOT be looking to run the content later. Easier or not, the pool of people running TSWE+ is smaller than it was when it launched...and out of the pool you have, likely the quality is less. If you are talking solo, OW, even duo?....100% agree it will get more doable as time goes on....although on the timed bounties, a bit less so....but if there are exactly 6 other players on who A) want to run TSWE+ no death in say...2 years from now....and are B) capable of getting it done....it doesn't matter if it's easier or not...you won't be getting it done with 7.

Unless you are saying that it will be made SOOOO easy that you could random queue in some people and just 'do it'. In which case I think you are wrong. I've been in elite runs in old content post clamp and while it's easier than launch...it's not THAT much easier and I'd assume E+ a bit less so than standard E. There is no E+ in EEG yet, so we'll see I suppose.

Point still stands, and you seem to back it up. The SP shouldn't be needed if the challenge is what's desired. So it sounds like you are on the 'remove SP from E+' side. Thanks for your support.

Back to the original point, I would also like to see a fairly difficult raid. I think TSWe+ was probably too difficult at relevancy, but much more manageable the following DLC. In terms of content design, I don't like that they forced the requirement of multiple tanks. I think second boss is probably the most interesting fight, as it does require coordination and strategy, followed by first. Third boss is easily cheesed nowadays, and so fourth is as straightforward as regular elite. More interesting fights like second boss, but probably a bit shorter would be the best. I actually liked TSDe Critical first and second boss too. Each role has certain mechanics that they all need to perform, not too much pressure on any one role.

Of the recent Elite+ raids, I think RoEe+ and the globe was the most engaging. The puddles and magic too, to an extent. I think NuE+ relied too much on forcing two tanks and periodic oneshots from Hatred. The vials on second boss were interesting, but generally cheesed by just burning the boss faster to phase him or overall too annoying. TTe+ is far too similar to TTe, but with more reliance on RNG potentially killing you. In particular, Arc Lightning can still kill through block if it bounces (and you don't really have enough room to spread out that much), several attacks will kill through block if they hit at the same as Misery, Static's Lightning Balls are just BS, Babyface's Flamethrower targeting is janky, Supergirl's beam is BS, cogs spawn on the boss' AoEs, you can't get cogs on dead bodies, the symbols stunning you is just annoying, etc.

I think discussion has been too derailed into debating whether or not SP should be included in Elite+. A lot of it seems to revolve around issues with population size, as this game is not very active, particularly on certain platforms.

I'll say that I'm in favor of feats in Elite+. My primary reasoning is that having extra feats in Elite+ does not impact the rest of the game. There are still feats in Elite (which I think most people will agree is completable by 100% of the population that cares to any extent), you can still max out your stats with Elite, Trolls and Tanks can max out two stats in SP without Elite+, etc. You can do all of that without Elite+, and you can also do it with Elite+. I don't think there should be harm in having more content in the game.

As to complaints about population size and not being able to find a group for Elite+, I also feel like you can apply the "minority" argument — that because the minority is the minority, they should not be catered to, or at least prioritized over the majority. Those who are suffering from population size issues are probably a minority, because by definition of not having people to run with, there just aren't that many of them. So I don't think the "minority" argument is going to swing the debate one way or another, because it can apply to both sides. I would lean toward there's more people who are willing to try and complete Elite+ and can get in a group, than those who want the feats removed from it entirely or those who can't find a group. Really, it should be up to the devs or someone with the actual figures — if we're really going to talk about who's the "minority" — to decide who to prioritize and who to ignore.

In my personal experience, I would say that Elite+ doesn't matter to most people. They don't really care to complete it, and they also don't really care that's it's in the game. This content isn't exactly a pressing matter unless you are close to (as of now) 800 SP, because there are plenty of other feats in the game that you can complete. There are other things to grind before you get to that point, and that's what the majority of players are doing. By the time they actually near that 800 SP mark, they should be good enough players and have made some connections that they will be able to run Elite+. I also think that for most people who actually enjoy playing the game, they want harder content like Elite+. I think that without Elite+, a significant portion of the playerbase would take a break after the first one or two months after content release.

I will make a quick note about skill, which I've probably said before. If you're actually a good player, then I don't think it's very difficult to get into groups. If you are a good player but can't get into groups, then there might be another issue there. I also don't think you should be able to complete everything without being at least a somewhat decent player; if you're nice, then maybe you can get carried without being that great. Also, you need time and effort. I feel like this is not mentioned that often, but is important along with having some skill. As an example, Reverse Monstrosity Mash in GPe+ would take hours for groups to complete, even in some I've been in (it's not supposed to though, of course). A TSWe+ clear at relevancy was probably at least 2-3 hours (though as I've mentioned before, I think was is excessive).

Lastly, toxicity. This is a community issue in my opinion, gaming is a weird space and it's just going to happen. Elite+ is not the cause of this, and though toxicity can have a noticeable impact on whether or not you can complete content, removing content from the game will not solve toxicity. You would then be able to just ignore that toxicity, but while this is a possible equilibrium, I think a better solution can be found.

I'm not really picking a side, but I wouldn't mind it if they removed SP from any content yea.. I am, however, VERY concerned when the demand is to simplify content if it does have SP attached to it. If the way to please that demand is to make old content that is not being revisited frequently enough, very very easy.. why not ask for that?
The ask directed towards nerfs in relevant content is the thing I have an issue with..

I've never asked for a nerf. I'm fine with E+ being 'too hard' for me, you or anyone else as long as some people are enjoying it. It would be nice if that were more than 5, 10 or 20% of the population, but hey....the elite need fun too. I just don't think the SP should be what makes it enjoyable. I'm not even opposed to titles or spiffy items so the 'best' people can show off how good they are next to the dirty dirty casuals. But SP is progression, and all progression should be attainable with a reasonable effort or level of skill. If someone can't do the split tunnel in FOS2....and can't get 7 other capable people to run TSWE+ for the no death in 2 years....those are 2 very different types of 'can't'. I mean most groups can't do the DME no death feat....and that's 4 or so years old now.

You are on Xbox to back up this claim?

This. All of this.

Exactly.

Always read you saying this, or that the top leagues dont want to take you into their groups, so i wonder, youre not on a league? Dont have friends to run stuff? I mean...what is stopping you to get into the Raids and learn how to beat it on your own?
I know that putting a group toghether to spent time "training" might not be easy...due to low population, but friends/league should be enough.
(Just in case...im legit asking, not trying to take a jab at you) .

I am a villain, those leagues are heroes. Everyone I used to run with has moved on, especially because of the you-know-what.
Villain side is practically dead, and those who are left are usually not capable of such feats. There is a top villain league, but they are not recruiting. Most of the leagues on villain side are struggling with dormant/MIA players as well. Most just log on for dailies and log out. That's why I push for cross-faction grouping methods because I strongly feel it would help our population issues and future health of the game.

Edit edit: But that's also my point, it shouldn't have to be that way. It shouldn't be so hard that only the best of the best players can complete it, let alone get the feats for it, and you have to rely on them to be willing to help. I also forgot to mention that there is a strict rule to use Artifact Swapping, or you are not included (if they even decide to help someone outside of their circle). They have already ridiculed me for not liking to do that. But that's a different story.

Sounds like an Xbox-exclusive problem regarding the swaps tbh. The villain population is shared across all platforms, however.

There was cross-faction grouping in the works - or at least thought about in the past, but it got either canceled or pushed back. Either way, I wouldn't wait for it to happen and just make the jump to heroes as that's just generally more populated and easier to get by for any sort of content.

Pretty much, so the struggle is real.

As for CFG, it was talked about a lot (and even replied to by the devs) in my Cross-Faction Grouping thread. The "New System" in the works was supposedly for it, as they were already taking "baby steps" in it's direction. Hence why I still keep trying to bring awareness to it to this day.

As for jumping to hero side, I definitely do not want to have to refrain to that. I couldn't afford to anyway, but I really shouldn't have to. Hence why I always bring up the principal of the matter.