Cr relevancy&Source marks.

No the additions made later to the vendor have not been reduced in price, so if this remained the approach and eventually flowed through to titans and atlantis you could expect a material to still be 200 source marks.

Hi Mepps, long time no talk. o/
I see we are having a new currency change, or I should say we are going back to the first model that worked. I'm all for this change.

What I'm confused about is why relevancy is still in your thought process. There is no point of having it still be a thing. Leveling up will not change, in fact time capsules have accelerated it. The marks for new gear will still be different and require you to run new content. Leaving relevancy still active makes it appear that you don't think we should be running old content at all? Like you have two conflicting dev mindsets, one that thinks we should get to end game sooner and another that thinks that we should not go against a linear climb and should stay forward never look back.

You forgot feats. There's plenty of "defeat each combination of..." in older content that I'm still missing on a toon or too. I can't be the only one.

Almost no one. I kind of like not having to grind though older content.

I have an alt that I played this weekend who is CR115. Played for a hour or two and got into Necro, TD, LH, both amazon fury 1 duos and 1 of the HOP 2 duos. Finished a style set on him. Throne of the dead popped also, but I had to stop playing at that point.

There's no special marks for that content. People just run it for feats or missing style pieces. The sky is not, in fact, falling.

Agreed. Feats and drop gear are still unchanged...they should not factor into the discussion.

This is probably the part you are most off on (in my opinion). Yes....some 260+CR players have everything...and yes, I do as well from AF3, but I do not in AoJ or RcW...I still need the Elite renown (which will go unchanged here) and the associated styles (which admittedly will reduce in marks...but the source of marks will also dry up somewhat). Some people are missing the collections or maybe even the AoJ head pieces both of which are NOT reduced. Now those of us with a stockpile of marks from these DLCs will reap the rewards of the migration to source, but not everyone will. Assuming you had NO currency from 27-31 to migrate to source marks the loss of the episodic currency is a loss even with the reduced prices as there is a finite amount of Mov/Source you can get each week unless you plan on running everything and hope to get that 1 mark out of an alt box out of 10-20 boxes opened.

For me personally It's not the 2 raids for Crowns/Warbonds/Ultrabucks I'm going to miss its' the weekly bounties that pay 8 marks and MOST of which can be done in a few min solo or in a 2-3 man group....even though currently they are in different DLC currency, they can be done quick and easy as an afterthought or while waiting for a queue to pop. And at 263+ it's only 4 raids....not 6. Moreso for Crowns because Deluge has sellable items (unlike previous DLCs)....but with TT coming up next there are more sellable items...Atlantis has more, and I'd guess it will remain this way on the next few DLCs as well.

Reinheld

OK, I get that there are a (very) few people not bothered by this change. What I don't get is why they are bothered that other people are bothered?

If you don't want to run old content and get Source Marks, more power to you. But why would you care that those of us that DO want to run old content, for whatever reason, get some Marks for our time. (Reminder: We get those marks today, just under another name. This is something being taken away from us, not something new we are asking to have added.)

I don't understand why someone would take such offense to this. If you got everything you need from Deluge, and don't need to buy anything from there any more, that's great for you. But why are people actively arguing that screwing over other players who DO need stuff from those episodes is a good thing? There's literally no harm to you if people get some Marks from those episodes. Why such a holy war over it?

To the Devs, please reconsider what you are doing to older content, and to players who still need to obtain items from it.

If you are at tier, the rewards are MoV....in fact 115CR is about the best spot to be in for maximum MoV as there are are lot of raids/alerts/duos where you get full pay. If you are way above tier, the attraction is that these raids are very fast as long as you have 1 or 2 goons to burn it...same reason getting into Paradox is easy...the loot choosers do give an MoV choice and I'd guess none of that content took more than 5-7 min once into it. TTB, SS, GOM, OLY are not 5 min runs, even if you have a fully stocked high CR goon group. HOP duos are quick and drop the high prestige 102 gear people like to get, as do the AF1 raids....no such drops in 27-31.

Not exactly the same thing. Please blind queue up the Hands of Fate raids and let me know how it goes....or UM or Bombshell. They are NOT quick and have no attractive drops to entice anyone in.

Reinheld

They are bothered we are bothered because IF by some miracle the Devs actually said "man....we didn't know it would be this disliked....CHANGE CANCELLED!"...they would miss out on the huge pile of source marks they will be getting when the change happens. There are people who stand to pile up 1000's of source marks they can buy Cat caches or these 'worthless' auras/style items and sell. Hey, I'll get a few 1000 myself, but I can still see the issues with it and am bothered by the change.

Reinheld

I've actually blind queued all of those pretty recently. Actually UM and DWF are especially easy to get into since they were so hard when they were relevant.

It's been a while since I tried Hand of Fate though. Those raids are impossible to get into as a villain, but they used to pop pretty regularly on the hero side, probably because the style drops are really cool.

I'd say let them change it, see how much of a difference it makes.

I actually don't think that it will be a horrible idea and not because of the reason your stating either, that is how your feeling about it.

They want us in newer content, people made such a big deal about the huge gap to endgame and how long it takes newer players to catch up that the only gate active now is the very thing people mainly are trying to get changed.

FEATS.

Whether we admit it or not if it weren't for them style feats a majority of the new players wouldn't care about the older content.

In fact, with new changes, if you need a specific thing from a particular episode, you can get it faster than now. Now you receive currency only from a specific episode, after changes you will receive currency from the last 2 episodes (well, or one if you are 273 ... or 3 if you have not outgrown the Death of Superman.), Plus all those curency from vault, promethiumbox, timecapsules,and alternative revards....

You are assuming that you are not spending MoV elsewhere. There will be no additional MoV/Source given other than the initial conversion...again, let's assume that's 0. So if there is no additional MoV coming, you'd get the same amount of Source as MoV today...if you are spending your MoV already on the style vendors (70 or 10 a pop) or Cat caches (10 a pop) or the rent (admittedly 0-35 every few months is not a lot), but whatever you are spending it on today, you will need to spend it after 94 exactly the same. You will additionally now need to use it for the styles in 27-31 assuming you are at 250 at least...not sure how adding more expense against unchanged or less income will go faster.

I generally spend my MoV on cat caches....I stockpile till 200 or so, then start selling. If I still had the ep currency, regardless of the gear price reduction, I'd still spend my MoV on cat caches and just would get the gear/styles I was missing as I went....just because after 94 I can re-arrange my spending to NOT spend MoV on cat caches and then get those same missing pieces 'faster', is not a good thing for everyone....Currently If I wanted it 'faster' I could also replay the Deulge missions...or run the raids (which I do not) and daily missions. It's not a matter of 'faster' really. Again, the original pitch of all this extra stuff in the vendors was to prolong the running of the DLC content....so 'faster' was never in the design. I'd argue that this is why the last 3 DLCs have had 'sellable' items added....to get people to run the old content and get some marks to get items to sell. Not a lot of money, but hey....a few few million every few weeks ain't bad.

Reinheld

As a person not particularly bothered with this change, I'm bothered at other people being bothered because I see their point and think it's valid. It doesn't apply to me, but I understand the problems and issues and now I'm trying to think of a solution that would satisfy the majority - which isn't really my job - and suddenly the whole thing is a mixed-up mess in my head and I need to go take a nap.

That said, I hope the devs are listening to the critiques and figure out some way to keep people happy. I think the entire currency system needs a major overhaul, but I'm not sure this is the right way forward. Heck, the ability to sort currency by type (DLC, Seasonal, PVP) would be a vast improvement over what we have now, but would not settle anything at all.

Anyway, I thought I'd toss in my two cents. This change doesn't bother me at all, but I fully understand the concerns of others and hope the developers can figure out a way to address those concerns.

Thanks Tegan. I was really after why there were people with seemingly no skin in the game arguing against someone else trying to better the situation. Some of the arguments in this thread seem to be for the sake of arguing. If you don't care about old content, why argue against someone who wants to improve it for (admittedly) their own benefit? It literally makes no difference to someone who's not playing that content anyway.

I'm posting this because the information is available but a bit spread out, and there still seems to be confusion.

TL;DR – This is a summary of information of currency rewards and costs now on live and on test.

Rewards on the Test Server
If you are within relevancy for the episode, you will receive:
Dailies – 1 Source Mark
Weeklies – 8 Source Marks
Duos – 1 Source Mark
Alert – 3 Source Marks (Assumed; I was not able to test this.)
Raids – 10 Source Marks (Assumed; I was not able to test this.)

If you are above CR 262, you will receive the following rewards:
AF3 – gear, base items, plans, etc., and no marks
AoJ – gear, base items, plans, etc., and no marks
RwC – gear, base items, plans, etc., and no marks
Earth 3 – gear, base items, plans, etc., and no marks
Deluge – gear, base items, plans, etc., and no marks
Teen Titans – gear, base items, plans, etc., and Titans Cred
Atlantis – gear, base items, plans, etc., and Rath Crowns and Source Marks
JLD – gear, base items, plans, etc., and Daemohedron and Source Marks


Costs
On test, each regular armor set up (head, shoulders, chest, back, hands, legs, waist, feet) through Deluge, episode 31, costs a total of 104 Source Marks; each elite set costs 132 SM, and each regular set costs 52 SM with the discount from having the feat. The costs of non-armor items are the same on test as on live, except the required currency is Source Marks.

Currently on live the costs are
AF3
style set - 216 Ancient Coins
OP collections - 500
Style collection - 300

AoJ
style set - 325 War Bonds
OP collections - 1,000

RwC
style set - 360 Counterfeit Bucks
OP collections - 350
Style collection (with feat) - 60

Earth 3
elite style set - 600 Ultrabucks
discount style set - 238
OP collections - 655

Deluge
elite style set - 520 Atlantean Crowns
discount style set - 213
OP collection - 375
Style (with feat) - 100
Other styles & Trinkets - 400


Also, I wanted an excuse to post this gif:

Thanks for that breakdown list. I'm going to have to do my best to run pre-Titans stuff as much as possible before this goes live.

The reason why some are bothered by this is that every time people complain about something that isn't that major, and lobby to get things changed, it has a ripple effect that winds up being worse for all in some shape or form (because in the end, things have to still balance out according to their plans...not ours).

Remember when Age of Justice came out??? People where in hysterics about the price of stuff on the vendor...so much so that they convinced the Devs to reduce the prices. What was the unintended consequence...? They also reduced the amount of daily missions we could run which also meant we dropped the amount of marks we could earn daily/weekly. I distinctly recall people exclaiming "we didn't ask for that" (as is ALWAYS said in these types of threads), but despite that, it's what we got.

How does that relate to this particular issue??? Well, for a very long time people have asked/pleaded/begged/cajoled the Devs to significantly increase the cap on Marks of Victory. It was explained by quite a few that it wasn't necessary and that raising the cap would have unintended consequences (even though NO ONE ASKED FOR THOSE CONSEQUENCES). Well here we are...mark cap raised significantly...but oh, unintended (unasked for) consequences. Every time people ask for one thing to be adjusted, it happens but with a side of un-happy meal...EVERY.TIME!!!!

As it currently stands, hitting the mark of victory cap of 200 is easy as pie just running the latest DLC. When this update hits, we'll have 3 DLCs to earn from (so it's not JUST JLD that we can play to earn marks from). And for those decrying the bad queue times for older content...they're already bad because not many people are running older content....so in reality, nothing will change with that. The one thing that does change...the dream that people had of stockpiling a ludicrous amount of secondary marks from a variety of content without having to use replays in current content to earn extra. Funny enough, in all the MoV Cap raise threads I told people that it would not happen...that they would not raise the cap AND give you a wide source of marks to earn unfettered...and here we are. They made that mistake once with Marks of Triumph...and they admitted that it was a mistake. They're not repeating that one, and no slightly repainted argument will change that.

TL;DR: My opinion is that this will be a net benefit to new players and alts. The very large amount of text below shows my work. I’m not arguing against anyone who doesn’t like the change because they do not want to lose the ability to earn episode specific currency, even out of relevancy. That’s a different aspect to this topic, not addressed in this post.

I've found the different perspectives on this and other threads very helpful. I have a lot of alts and have friends who are even more casual players than I am, so I have been thinking of this from a new player/leveling up perspective. We’ll use a character that I just leveled to 170 as an example. I spent most of the marks earned from leveling on his base mainframe and armor pieces to up his CR, so he made it to 170 with 11 MoV. Here are the two scenarios under the current system and after GU94.

Current system
AF3 Rewards
Dailies/Solo/Duo/Alert – 8 AC + 8 MoV
Weekly/Raids – 28 AC + 28 MoV
Journal Mission – 5 AC + 5 MoV
10 scalable drops + 1 weapon box

Chaos Gotham (Event) Rewards
Dailies/ Duo/Alert – 8 Daemohedron + 4 MoV
Weekly/Raids – 44 DH + 20 MoV / 44DH
Journal Mission – N/A, already completed
15 scalable drops

After doing everything above, I will have 41 Ancient Coins, 52 DH, and 76 MoV and can buy the Fallen God gloves and waist. I will be at CR 172. Assuming a variety of green drops, the gear will scale to 151-157 (as more pieces open), and I will end the day at CR 176 with 1 Ancient Coin and 52 MoV.

The next day, he will get 11 scalable drops, 8 AC, 8 DH and 12 MoV, and it will take about 1 week to get to CR 186 to unlock AoJ. Now AoJ will take a little longer, but it should all average out to about a week an episode. I’ll gain Marks of Victory as I go and start sinking those into catalyst caches. (I’m hording my nth metal for the next double XP weekend. I currently have one artifact at level 20 because I’m miserly about my nth metal!)

I’m not going to keep running AF3 every day once I’m out of relevancy, so I’ll assume that I would keep getting 36 AC each week, and it will take me ~18 weeks to buy everything I need off of the vendor. (I have no idea how to get all of the other collection pieces for the OP items, but that’s a whole different issue.) In parallel, I can run AoJ weekly and get 41 War Bonds (again, assuming I just run the dailies and alerts once each week), and it will take ~32 weeks. All of this assumes no double currency weekends.

GU94
AF3 Rewards
Dailies/Solo/Duo/Alert – 8 SM
Weekly/Raids – 28 SM
Journal Mission – 5 SM
10 scalable drops + 1 weapon box

Chaos Gotham (Event) Rewards
Dailies/ Duo/Alert – 8 Daemohedron + 4 SM
Weekly/Raids – 44DH + 20 SM
Journal Mission – N/A, already completed
15 scalable drops

After doing everything above (plus my existing 11 MoV that will be converted), I will have 76 Source Marks and can buy the head, shoulders chest, back, hands, and feet. Assuming a variety of green drops, I’d be at CR 186 with 0 Source Marks and can move on to Age of Justice. It will take two days to get through AoJ, assuming that I run AF3 dailies, AoJ dailies and weeklies, and Chaos Gotham dailies. This will continue through Teen Titans, averaging about 2 days without resets to raise my CR to the point where the next episode opens up.

I plan to stay at Teen Titans for a while to get enough Titans cred to get the armor set (~12 weeks for the elite and normal sets) and will start saving up Source Marks at that point. Each week, I’d be getting 24+20+3+1+3 = 51 SMs from E3, 32+20+3+2+4 = 61 SMs from Deluge, 16+10+5 = 31 SMs from Death of Superman; 24+20+14+21+7 = 86 SMs from Teen Titans (I’ll be running this content daily), and 20+21+7 = 48 from Justice League Dark (also planning to run this daily). Over the course of 12 weeks, that’s about 3,324 SMs. I’ll have to power up my mainframe twice, so that’s 3,254 SMs for styles, collections, and catalyst caches. At some point in there, I will level out of getting SMs from Earth 3, but I will be able to an equal amount from Atlantis.

I’m hoping to get 4 artifacts up to level 80 during the next double XP weekend, so I’ll need 3*2 + 4*(3+6+9) = 78 catalyst caches. That leaves me with 3,176 SMs. For the most part, I will just need the waist and feet for AF3, AoJ and RwC sets. I’ll need more for Earth 3 and Deluge if I want to get the elite sets and the normal sets to get both feats. Here’s how I’d spend my 3,176 SMs.
28 – finish AF3 set; 28 – finish AoJ set; 28 – finish RwC set; 132 – Earth 3 elite set; 14 – finish Earth 3 regular set; 132 – Deluge elite set; 14 – finish Deluge regular set; 100 – Deluge aura; 500 – AF3 collections; 1,000 – AoJ collections; 410 – RwC collections; 655 – Earth 3 collections; Balance = 135 SMs.

In the end, I will complete everything through Earth, plus several things from Deluge, in about 12 weeks. I will still be running some of the AF3, AoJ, RwC, E3, and Deluge content to get the collections for the OP items, but I only need to run the instances that drop the things I need because I won't be trying to save up episode currency. I don't know what these changes will do to queue times, but I'll have plenty to keep me busy while I'm waiting for groups to form or queues to pop.

I hope you manage to finish all those raids and weeklies (and alerts every day) after this change happens.