Counter Mechanics are Broken in PvE

Yea remove this stupid pvp crap from my precious pve.

This also something I noticed the other day in pvp I was clearly blocking yet I was getting juggled by two handed anyway.

thee mechanics are seriously BROKEN!!! . this problem will only become worse with WM. devs, please remove this sytem BEFORE taking WM live.

I've done some testing on GU36 and can confirm that the vulnerability window overhang from weapons to normal (not vulnerable to interrupt or block) powers is alive and well there also.

The only thing you can do to avoid being countered in these situations is avoid using weapon combos before normal powers, and if you can't do that, try not to use consecutive combos because the vulnerability windows' times appear to stack with each other and make the overhang time longer.

I like to think the devs' silence so far is because there's something I'm missing about these PvE counter mechanics so obvious that if they point it out now I'd feel even stupider. At least I hope so. I'd welcome a schooling on this subject, especially in the context of recent and upcoming game changes. Being countered while executing powers like Warped Reality and Time Bubble is starting to turn me into the Guy Gardner of these forums, and I really don't wanna be "That Guy".

But the only way to get the 100% crit is to use a power immediately after a WM combo. Sounds like we are set up for failure. I don't think there is any hidden gem to these mechanics. They are just flat broken and the devs don't want to own up, admit they are broken, and fix them.

If I see a thread titled "ALL I FEEL IS RAGE!" ill be sure to leave you a comment.

+1 one to all the gripes about the pvp mechanics being shoved into pve. This is the main reason I do not have a tank Alt.

You got my meaning exactly.

I really am starting to wonder if there's a point to all this...

I am very disappointed to see so many people complaining about something so prevalent and disruptive to the game. I like the combat mechanics, they add a new challenge to the game. I am so frustrated by the inequality of their application between players and NPCs that I am starting to read up on TESO. I am saddened as I realize that this and so many other issues are not being addressed by the devs (at least not in the forums) and that after 2.5 years of playing and meeting some really great people, I will likely discontinue with DCOU very soon. This was really a great game, I will miss the fun parts of it, but the frustrations have overpowered the enjoyment, at least for me.

I've noticed that the feint mechanic indicator on enemies is much more visible throughout the game lately. I really had no idea that so many NPCs were using these mechanics before. Perhaps the indicators were glitched and not showing up everywhere they should have been - that would explain the epidemic of weird counter mechanic behavior lately. If the enemies were using it with no indication to us, they'd appear to be psychic or cheating while we kept doing the opposite of what we should have been doing and getting punished for it.

Now that I'm looking for and actually seeing these indicators, I seem to be far more successful with my block countering.

Last time i am posting in this thread. Devs refuse to even comment on this which is somewhat surprising considering all the support this thread has received. Thank you to everyone who supported this topic and i do hope that someday these issues are addressed and fixed. Until then though, i'm done speaking with words since speaking with your wallet is somewhat more effective. Sub cancelled. On to other games. In this case that is FFXIV.

Don't give up they can't ignore the blatant issues with the game forever.

They'll have to fix it sooner or later but it seems like the issue should be brought up on the test server( PC) now because they seem to be the only ones they listen to half the time .

I thought that maybe they had been choosing to ninja-fix the issues, as my last post was implying - but when I get countered performing powers such as Warped Reality and Temporal Extortion, which are not even attacking powers, then I think that either they can't fix the system or don't want to. The PvE counter vulnerability windows are too large, it's as simple as that. It causes players to get countered, knocked down, and damaged for moves they performed earlier. In some cases, the earlier move and current move counters get stacked, so you can get countered for both block AND block-breaking AT THE SAME TIME. It's stupid, annoying, and unfair. The PvE counter mechanics system is only successfully at countering itself by defeating the purpose of having the system in the first place.

GU36 is showing the same tendency toward weapon-to-power counter vulnerability overhang, so this issue is baked into future versions of the game. The devs really don't believe it's broken or in need of any adjustment at all. That appears to be their final non-answer.

And about those Feint Mechanics...nowhere are these ever described in-game. Coming from playing Arkham City, I thought at first that the yellow brackets around a character meant that they were the ones talking. I had to find out from the forums that feint mechanics even existed. Players can't use them, even though low-end NPCs can. Maybe it's something that's only meant for the "leet" players to understand. I dunno anymore.

Looks like the "cancel sub" is shaping up to be the best solution when I hoped it would only be the last resort.

I am tempted to respond to this in another way, but I'll refrain from doing so as I do have some faith that this thread will eventually be answered. However, I am saddened by the fact that this has reached 5 pages and has received 80 likes, but no developer or community manager has responded in any way.

The combat mechanics counter window issues can only be avoided by standing there and not performing any weapon combat. So to avoid getting knocked down a lot, a player is being taught to do nothing. The game is essentially forcing us not to play at times due to the bugs in the counter windows. The result: players are taking it further as in the post above and not playing at all. I am not going to take it that far because I still hold hope that someone will read this thread and make some adjustments to the counter windows and latency issues involved, but I can understand why some do stop playing completely to avoid the frustrations these bugs cause.

If I am using my range attacks and then block, I should not be countered by a lunge for my range attacks while also countering the lunge with my block. The fact that happened yesterday indicates there is a bug in the counter windows.

I will not give up the fight on getting the combat mechanics fixed I will spread the word to my league about this thread and hopefully others will help get this thread noticed.

You are the Saint Walker of this thread, maintaining hope while some of us are becoming infected with rage.

What's interesting is that the mods haven't locked this thread yet. It's obviously non-constructive albeit with a twist: it's SOE that is being non-constructive here.

I 1+ this because I still notice this in game, especially with the elite NPCs and Sub Bosses/Bosses. My only new news to this subject is that recently I have pursued tanking in this game and have noted that the NPCs fall much more often when tanking than when in any other role in the game. Maybe this is to influence us to bring tanks into Alerts and Operations?

My only problem with this is that most of the time, the game will struggle to accept a blockbreaker on the blocking NPC. Other than that, tanking has a much higher success rate when using the counter mechanics in PvE.

Prime examples

Greater Demons inside annoying T5 duos with shields and dual wields

They can go to lunge to block break and block all at the same time,basically sometimes I get punished twice for blocking and using block break ability

Solution tone down the execution times of their moves,cause npcs with shields are just broken.
Encircling throw with dw npcs is still a tap hold while for us is not fix that.
Pyro,Acid and Whatever Chemoids and some other brawlers at Ace Chemicals and not can still knock-down you endlessly

As a controller I can juggle a mob only two times before he gets the immunity,while he and his friends can keep me perma-juggled

My terror "is" his terror even if is and HL user,npcs get immunity after the first terror effect,we do not

Annoying lanterns in Metropolis Battlezone,seriously W T F were testers doing,if I land my foot too close a raging red lantern,don't attack him and move away he can nearly kill me from a mile away while landing is dot on me.Yellow lanterns in the blink bomb area are even worse cause they can keep you perma stunned or cut through your armor like nothing,the only time it happened to me something so stupid was when I was a lvl6 and landed in the Meta Hospital area and I got killed in around 10 seconds,now what?Am I back at level 6 with full Scion armor?

Aggro,I'm passing by lanterns as usual fighting against each other don't give a crap they turn themselves all against me

Nice job Spytle really,your ego blow








jobs

Honestly have to say your wrong about the shield and dual wield weapons because to me, they have some of he most predictable weapon combos in the game, especially since they have long tap melee attacks before you should block them. The problem you've run into with the NPCs quickly changing isn't even a problem in the first place, the game implemented a little glowing circle that goes around the enemy that signifies that they will change to an opposite counter mechanic. Even these can be learned after experiencing this multiple times.

I haven't been to Ace in ages due to already completing the feats and collections there, but I do know that brawling has tricky ways to prevent being blocked. What I notice the brawling NPCs do the most when it comes to being tricky is that they will perform the tap melee combos then, due to it being such a fast action, you will barely have time to act on them quickly performing the tap range attack that then throws your blocking character smack on his buttox

Down to controller juggles, you shouldn't be running out of juggles, yes the same juggle can only be performed twice every thirty or so seconds before they are not immune. What you need to do my friend is get some variety in your weapon combos. There are plenty more than just one juggle for each weapon in the game.

Honestly the last thing I would do is taunt off Spytle or any SOE worker, they spend their time dealing what we love constantly and then have to put uP with people who can't even leave a positive, constructive critic to their game. Too little respect is given to them, I honestly feel bad for them.

Argumentum ad Misericordiam aside, there are legitimate concerns with PvE counter mechanics that are not being addressed by the people who have the power to make any potential fixes. Though some of the concerns expressed are less to the point than others, they have all been helpful to the process of determining what, in fact, the problems are. That's the point of having a bug report forum in the first place.

I'm not totally insensitive to people's feelings, so allow me to summarize thusly:

Dear DCUO Dev Team,

Please decrease the weapon combo vulnerability window times in PvE so that NPCs cannot counter normal, non-clipped, non-attack powers performed two moves later. The seemingly "counter"-intuitive nature of the current configuration is detracting from many players' enjoyment of the game.

If this is intended behavior in the game mechanics, a confirmation from you or a forum moderator would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, could you please let us know whether a fix can be expected? Your ongoing interaction with the player community has been a valued part of DCUO's evolution as a world-class MMO and is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

- Mack10, the other 80 players who have upvoted this thread so far, and the players who don't use the forums but have experienced problems due to this issue.