Counter Mechanics are Broken in PvE

This is beyond frustrating. Worse when I am tanking & I clearly blocked before an attack that should counter & drop a boss. Also I would like to add this isn't only happening to me. My whole alert group is trying several times to counter & nothing happens. 8/10 times nothing happens and the boss and I are just standing there looking at each other lol.

Wow, this thread really got noticed while i was away. Too bad a dev hasn't taken the time to respond. Maybe they can't come up with a solution, well devs i will gladly offer some on your behalf.

1. Remove the 3 hit counter and make it you can only be countered if you actually perform a lunge attack or the lunge part of a combo.

Reason: This rule doesn't apply to NPC's and would put us on equal grounds.

2. Remove counter based immunities

Reason: Immunities are huge problem because NPC's can be immune for way way longer than players can. This is a huge problem when facing large groups that all spam different counters leaving you unable to do anything meanwhile they are now immune to anything you could do to punish them.

Counterargument to people pro-immunity: Some say bosses would be too easy if they could not be immune. I say rubbish. Make it so they have more HP, do more damage, etc.. Make it so you NEED to lock them down with counters or else the boss is going leave a hole where your face used to be. Of course, ensure this is scaled appropriately when facing more than 1 boss at a time so 1 boss isn't wiping the group.

3. Make it so glancing blows do not result in me being countered.

Reason: If i am not directly targeting something that is blocking it is not fair for its block to counter me. And again, the NPC's are not bound by this rule so this would be another step in putting us on even ground.

Thanks again to everyone supporting this thread.


On a personal sidenote: Hard Lights "Hold Claw" does not function correctly with these mechanics. If an NPC is blocking Hold Claw is considered a lunge and i am countered but if an NPC is ranging Hold Claw does not counter them. Please fix these problems.

Another addition to my growing list of counter mechanics questions:

8. Is it intended for a lunge to counter a player's roll? A block counters a lunge, but a lunge counters a roll which is preceded by a block. Shouldn't a roll counter a lunge or not be affected by a lunge? It makes more sense that a player would try to dodge a lunge with a roll than an enemy would try to stop a roll with a lunge.

just wait for weapon mastery. It should be fun!

oh good, i thought i am the only one with this problem. i will support this thread aswell.

Bump for justice!lol I know that's not how it works but its good to see this on the front page

It sure is. Thanks to everyone who up voted the OP and got this to page 1. Too bad the devs don't care enough to reply to it. I saw a post by Mepps in another thread where he said "Ignore, not reply to. They aren't the same thing." Well guess what Mepps? They are the same thing. Your playerbase aren't mind readers. We cannot know what your stance is on an issue if you do not tell us. Regardless of if you "ignore it" or choose to "not reply to" it your forum dwellers will be unable to tell the difference. All it does is give the perception that you don't care.

For all we know you guys think everything about these pvp mechanics is working perfectly and you see no issues despite the multiple threads on them.

Agreed. I remember way back when I first joined the forum, and I first saw the Arkham Asylum section. The very first thing I noticed was that the number one concern of the players ( the hardlight thread) wasn't even acknowledged to even exist by the devs... As a new member who just got here at the time, my only logical conclusion was "wow, these devs really couldn' t care less, even when its right there at the top of the bug report page... duly noted". And I never bothered wasting my time trying to make a bug report since. Just reaffirming the way it looks from one forum member' s perspective.

HEY YO MEEPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS

So "bumping this" even though its already on page 1.

Is there a reason you devs are ignoring this subject? Its good to move forward and all but adding new things without fixing what is broken is a just bad business. Refusing to even comment on a serious subject like this is ignorant and lazy. In one aspect i hope your "weapon mastery" system flops so hard because you forgot / refused to go back and fix your broken pvp mechanics for pve.

While that may come off as harsh and unappreciative of the effort you guys put into advancing this game, sadly that is the way i feel right now. Mepps you are the "community manager" and part of your job is to be a liason between us, the community, and the rest of the dev team. Frankly, you suck at that part of your job. The posts that you do reply to usually come off as arrogant and rude and posts like "ignore, not reply to, totally separate things" should be unacceptable for someone in your position. Don't look at this as a personal attack. This is constructive criticism.

Show us that you actually care about our issues. Try replying to more threads that actually have some substance instead of stupid "hey look at my cool base that has utterly no effect on gameplay." While i know you need to reply to those as well, it would be nice if you would help us get our message to the devs, and in turn, provide us with the devs stance on the said subject.

We want to make DCUO better just as much as you guys do. And since we probably spend more hours in game then you do, it would be nice if you guys would listen AND respond. Any by respond, i mean within a week, not 2 months later.

really QQ misused? wow, and to insult nonetheless lol


here's some education for ya:


Contrary to popular belief, QQ is not a set of crying eyes. It actually originated with the advent of Warcraft II. On battlenet, you could press ALT+Q+Q to immediately exit the match and program. Thus the term "QQ" was to tell people to just quit because they are unskilled. The term later developed and lost it's origin and is usually mistaken as crying eyes.

In contemporary gamer culture, QQ has become the mainstream emoticon for crying eyes, though it is still often used in it's traditional sense.

"Shut up or QQ!"
"Why don't you QQ, noob?"

wow they suck then lol, I can solo t3 arkham in 40 minutes getting terror feat so struggling in goth hospital dup lol at that

The funny part about this thread is that people are actually surprised that the dev's haven't acknowledged the issue. The dev's only respond to a select few posts. I've noticed that they also will not respond to questions about the supposed performance boosts that were applied to the PS3. Sadly this is just another example of how the dev's claim to care but their actions show otherwise. How long does it actually take to post saying that we are looking into how to resolve the issue?

It would make more sense that a roll be countered by a block breaker, since rolls and blocks are both used to mitigate/prevent damage. I understand the need to have rolls be counterable somehow, but lunges don't seem right for this purpose. A lunge is a move that implies commitment, a concentrated burst of energy focused at a specific place. You see an enemy spamming you with a ranged attack because he thinks he's safe hitting you from a distance, you hold melee to jump over and put him on his back. Cool. But if he ranges you, sees you starting to fly towards him and rolls away from the point on the field you have just committed to hit, then it should be a "miss" for you - but it wouldn't have been for nothing because you have still would have stopped the attack.

Then again, I don't see too many NPCs rolling, so maybe this part of the mechanics is a trade off for that. And the devs probably wanted to avoid allowing players to avoid damage extensively by chaining rolls.

I do like that there are counter mechanics. It makes you have to watch what the enemies are doing and gives you a bit of satisfaction when you are successful. Challenge is a good thing, but unfairness not so much. The devs have a tough job, because everybody's perception of these two extremes is so varied.

No choice but to deal with it for now, but yeah the 1 point damage some enemies take when they block is nonsense ESPECIALLY if you have the Penetrating Strikes mod equipped. Then it should be at least 2 points

I really hope this thread gets a response. I really like the idea of the counter system being in pve but I can't stand how it is implemented, because there are so many rules that we as players have to follow that npcs are not subjected to. To me, this ruins the experience.

After finding myself getting countered while using normal powers (those with no vulnerability to block or interrupt) and hearing of others experiencing the same, I started to watch the vulnerability symbols over my character's head a little more closely. I found that vulnerabilities from weapon combos were persisting after the end of the combo and continuing through the execution of the power - even when not clipping.

For example, executing the rifle combo "Flip Burst" then using the power "Singularity" results in Flip Burst's interrupt vulnerability carrying over into Singularity's animation. Flip Burst does its damage, my character lands and throws a Singularity, and POW I'm on my back from an interrupt.

So either the NPC interrupted Singularity (which isn't interruptable), or the NPC interruption of Flip Burst was expressed incorrectly. It may have been in my favor in that I did damage, but it's a concern because ideally the counter mechanics work both ways - and I can't help but wonder how many times I've gotten the short end of the stick because of this issue, all the while thinking I was screwing up when I was actually doing things correctly.

This problem may be in the the same ilk as getting countered by an enemy AFTER you've knocked it out, which has happened to me numerous times.

While I agree they are broken, this is intended. Hitting a blocking enemy 3 times is supposed to counter an attack I believe.

EDIT: Certain attacks have immunity so it depends on which weapon you are using.

True, I don't see anyone in T5 alerts or raids that can be properly countered especially when it comes to block breaking. Everytime I use a block breaker in BIA/FR/MR/ST nothing really happens. Hell, why do they even have this mechanic if none of the rules apply to NCPs.

They are ignoring it because, despite their contrary opinion, this system DOES NOT WORK. It didn't work in PvP before they introduced it into PvE many updates ago and it still doesn't work now.

But, because they are hard-headed, or just plain aloof, they won't do anything about it because it would mean admitting that they were wrong or foolish for integrating a broken PvP mechanic into the entirety of the game just because Jens likes to PvP more than PvE.

And let's call this what it is: it's a PvP mechanic, not combat mechanics. It's PvP's rock-paper-scissors system on crack is all. And, once more, IT HAS RUINED THIS GAME.