Controllers, the "forgotten" role.

It's been a while since I've made a thread like this, but it's been close to 7 years since Controllers had any semblance of the role in content.

Why? What is the reason for this? Don't get me wrong, I've seen the artifacts, they look like the second most per role in artifacts... (DPS being #1) But that's because they are selling the stuff that should be part of the role to begin with. Other roles have artifacts that are on top or make better what they have. Which doesn't matter anyways, controllers don't even want to get controller artifacts.

Content hasn't had anything useful built that makes controllers needed or even wanted. The last time was War of the Light pt1. Why? Sure, there have been trickled in heal debuffs needed, but that's not content designed for all roles in mind. That's just content that reminds us, oh, a heal debuff works there.

In elite content, they get a controller, but they want the controller to use buff artifacts that have very little to do with a controller as a role, but help do more damage to the DPS. Defense debuff and feed power, if needed. Which, with the current power regen makes it very passive and to be honest, not as needed from a controller as once was.

Then... tanks, heaven forbid we hit a stun... Why does the tank do a better job at "crowd control" than a controller? Why is that even a thing?

Controllers need love. Not just a revamp, but actually make content that utilizing all roles make it more successful.

In terms of feedback, using Mepps' model from another thread, I don't feel super nor loved. I feel that content doesn't need it as a role and makes you not want to do it at all. I feel that other roles do a better job and really, makes you just want to stay damage or play a role that is wanted. It absolutely feels like the devs play healer or tank and don't bother with a controller main.

wait wait wait ur telling me there are controllers in this game?

The controller role is probably the number 1 mistake of the game. They just never found a way to make it more entertaining, because controllers, unlike the other roles, depend on content being designed with them in mind all the time.

If they make a fight that is just the boss, without adds or side mechanics, half the controller's job is killed, if the adds are meaningless, stunning is useless and this is what happens in most content around the game, you just spank adds that have no special hability, without having to control them.

I can count on my fingers the number of times controllers had a main, important job in the fight (like in aab lb) and I feel like this is why players just want a power/debuff battery.

Agreed. The main issue is the controller role is a thinking man’s role in a game where it’s become get in get out ASAP. Therefore the role has been watered down to almost non existent. How to fix this idk. Some controller’s are pushing power, others are now becoming buffers while some try to do damage or crowd control and others like myself try to do a little bit of everything. The role is extremely versatile but doesn’t replace the other three..Just buys time..The only solution is knowledge in knowing the role and trying to build it in a way that suits your play style and find others who you can run with that understand this. It always comes back to building relationships with others who are like minded and appreciate what you bring to the table.

See, I get the concept of this, but all other roles don't have to build a relationship to run content with their role. It's vexing.

The buffing isn't exclusive to damage, you are also buffing your tank and healers main stat increasing the group's survivability. This playstyle in my opinion is not for everyone and does not work with every group. It's a fun option though.

I don't agree with your statement that controllers don't want to get controller artifacts. These are really DPS in controller role that just want to do damage and get their marks for the week. I see it with tanks too. They have no interest in playing the role the way it's designed, therefore will skip making any investments into that role (gear, artifacts, etc). Every real controller I know, including myself, gear up appropriately.

I do agree that content (particularly elite 4-man and survival mode) should be better balanced to require a controller. Heal debuffs should have more importance other than SC generation and proccing Parasite's Power Harness.

There seems to be some confusion between a controller's stuns or encasements (a mechanic that also needs to be reworked) and mobs gaining CC immunity. The tank as I understand we both share a crowd control role, the tank keeps mobs away/together and the controller keeps mobs from doing damage or some other action. Encasements seem to do more harm than good in most situations. Communication is key during a phase where these two roles would need to coordinate.

When you stun an NPC, it will eventually gain immunity and no longer be pulled. Aggro is not lost, but the tank is no longer able to juggle the npc.

Encasements are different and really don't understand why they still block damage. Though, I seem to recall that enemies encased can still be aggro'd in an update a while ago. I could be wrong, but I think it was related to tanks encasing by PI. It's the fact that they can't be damaged that's the biggest issue.

In regards to your first comments, you go against the meta and I try to too. Ultimately, I DPS now. I poke my head into controller role along the way. Wonderverse I controlled in pugs, because catching up was annoying and starting to do controller for elite alert now. The role needs help and they can throw as many artifacts at it, won't change the role in the currently designed content.

I will always say, war of the light pt1 is the best model. And not because of AnB last boss, but the alerts. It was successful without a controller, but they made the content so we'll balanced to when you have a troll it was very pleasant to do the objectives.

That's because they need to hard force the role and make it relevant.

The answer is simple really, enrage mechanics where if the boss doesn't have at least one debuff on them they enrage. Fixed

LoL I'll bite.
That's one way.
How about if you don't have an add stunned right next to the boss, a random group member is one shot!

But seriously, content being built can be made where optional was possible. I remember asking Loche why AF1 went back to a no troll environment, and he alluded to trivializing content. At the time, power was all it had.

Yeah, I don't know I mean feel sorry for the controller role, it used to be great back before all the revamps because you even needed two of them at times or at most times.

Perhaps the biggest problem is the magnitude of passive power regeneration, people basically restore their own power to the extent that trolls ar redundant, at one point they were just batteries, now they're just walking dps buffs...

I used to love playing troll but haven't really played it for years because it's become so easy you can do it in your sleep, basically to the point where you're actually left feeling like an unnecessary carry.

I used to have 6 controllers now I have zero.The "new" way controller works now is not fun at all anymore and I wish they when back to before rewamp.

And they get bounced all over the room, it's very unorganized. It would be great if the encasement itself could be pulled OR if tanks had one power exclusive to pulling objects rather than npcs.

Everything will be fine ... until the moment when people remember about the seasonal pet ...

Im a Tank and agree with you but last time we actually needed a troll was in phonix cannon elite first boss where the troller has to stun the surpressor. Other then that i dont remember any raid. Generally speaken trollers shouldnt be there to buff the damage of the dpses its a support roll and should have a larger impact but i as a Tank know there are very few good trolls so i wouldnt like being fully depended on them but i also do agree that Tanks shouldnt be able to do this much crowd control.

As someone who mained a Controller for about five years, and doesn't any longer, I agree with a lot of this. I had suggested in the past to rename the role (something like Commander or Captain or something) and to expand the role do things such as buff allies and have more ways to supply Power. I mean...we have gotten that, but as B said, it has come in the form of Artifacts rather than being baked into the role itself, which is not how I would have liked to see it done. Maybe it was easier to do it that way rather than revamp the entire role itself or maybe it was done that way for other reasons, I don't know.

I don't really feel any connection to the role like I used to, and only have an alt Controller just so that I have at least one character at endgame for each role.

Wish they'd take the role back to pre-launch closed beta. Where controllers did crowd control. Everyone was responsible for their own power regen.

The controller role is the most misunderstood (by the Dev team) role ingame vs in-the-genre, role in the game. The Dev team here has just never understood crowd control in the genre, so hasn't been able to translate that group functionality into the game and thought making players batteries would satisfy people instead.

It could still be fixed relatively easily. Design team commits to some combat mechanic updates like more "states" such as sleep, disoriented, slowed, mind controlled etc. to give controller powersets options in fights. And make power regen every players' own responsibility. Adjust health+ damage for slower pace of battle and you're all set.

I think finding that balance point is the trickiest part for controllers. I doubt folks want to see them go back to the "just batteries" times (I ended up running in Controller role on my Gadgets character for quite a while because the power drain was so nasty in Damage mode, even solo stuff).

But at the same time if you make the "control" aspects too strong it runs the risk of trivializing content AND stepping on Tank roles as well. For example, the strength of some of the Quantum control moves is still surprising even in Damage mode and the Holographic Decoy ability for Gadgets can be a nasty headache for Tanks in a group setting if used at the wrong time or location.

Oh, I don’t think that this is the problem, it seems to me that just the controller as CC, fundamentally not correct and too narrow, the controller influences the fight, through CC, through buffs and debuffs, through power regeneration , through shields ... the problem is that this influence is on the level of comfort and not need ... increase these effects to a level where it will be more profitable to have a controller and not an additional dps or two and everything will change at once...

There's been alot of talk about a revamp to powers coming. When it does all powers will work together differently when teamed up together. Im interested in knowing how this would work. because so far nothing has worked at all we thought stats revamp would work all it did was work against us. we had to buy our stats back with artifacts to be op. we also lost pvp and legends because of stats revamp and many friends and leagues. Its time to make dcuo great again in 2021. Also when it comes to having a troll they are op in alerts and raids and bounties. but mostly alert and bounties due to the role buffs. If you have 3 dps in alert thats 36% less dmg out each dps if one of those dps chnage to troll that person give their role buff as a dps to the other 2 dps so 12% dps out. The dmg out debut is now 24% for each of those 2 dps. The troll is able to buff the group so.much that the 24% isn't noticeable. A troll an buff the group to 40% dmg out without arts and much higher with the right artifacts. While doing bounties in the open world in a group of all 8 dpses. take a second to open the d pad and go all the way down while in combat. look at how much dmg out is debuffed per dps without a troll then tell me if you think trolls are useless or not. Same with raids just like open world your group will be debuffed if you do not have one tank one troll and one healer. Im always shouting this out because everyone wants to dps but they have no clue what to look for. If ur an op dps and there is a crap dps he will take ur dmg down with him and nerf both of you 24% each not good if there is no troll

That's tricky in its own way, especially given some of the behaviors of the player base. Even if the increase of the CC effects is just enough to make people stop and think, "Hey, a Controller would work really well right about now" you'd get folks claiming that they're now being "forced" to include Controllers in their groups.

Plus you'd still be having to worry about not making the effects too strong or to the point where they'd be stepping on the toes of the Tank role.