Controllers please weigh in on CC

So I am a Tank, and these days I see a lot of controllers complaining they do not get to crowd control enough. So I ask what is your definition of crowd control, and what is it you feel you are accomplishing by doing this?

In my experience a controller who uses a lot of stuns, freezes, levitates, and bubbles actually hurts the group (from the tank/dps perspective). My job description as the TANK is absorb damage and keep the attention of the mobs/boss. When a controller uses any of the mentioned powers it makes it very difficult for me to move the add/boss where we want him. Also making it hard for me to pile a bunch of adds so the DPS can use AOE attacks to drop them quicker.

Stun, Freeze, Levitate, Root = Tank cant pull
Bubble = DPS can not do damage, tank can't pull and simple knockdown attack (common for tanks) blasts the enemy all the way across the room.

I understand that troller would like to be more than a battery, and are given option to try and do more, but really... is it helping? You don't see healers complaining about only filling the health bar, you don't see tanks complaining that all they do is get bounced like a basketball. So why complain about being a battery?


Now as I stated this is just my perspective, and I am simply asking troller for theirs. If you disagree with my OPINION, please politely explain why. I would like to know, maybe fill me in on something I am missing from the equation.

Controllers don't know what they want.

What you're saying completely makes sense.

I prefer trolling when my husband is tanking. He pulls adds first, then I do light blast to stun the mob around him.

My definition would be "Situational". I won't CC unless I have to, and that's how I feel it should be done. That's my opinion though.

IE, the type of CC I like to do:

- A sentry in Nexus that's behind the group, that the tank can't get. I can stun it down to stop it killing people.
- Certain situations in (stretching the memory here) Subcon I think.. where you have 2 shielded drones that have to be pulled apart, to drop the shields (Probably a better example is the 2 healer bots in Omac duo).
- A missed add, that's belting up my mate, the healer, that I can stun/pull away/bounce.

CC I would rather not do, but sometimes unavoidable:

- Adds surrounding a boss, and I drop a defense debuff that is also a CC move. and it seperates the adds.

CC that's not advisable.

- Bouncing adds before the tank gets hold of them.

I agree with the bubbles/encase since the targets bounce away and dont take damage.

With the others damage can still be done, the targets cant do damage which in turns helps the healer and from my point of view thats good since he hopefully will be using less power.

So I guess what I'm getting at is I dont really care if you cant pull or whatever it is you tanks do.

Well there are a lot of times where an enemy will be on the fringe, and not controlled by the tank, and it starts to attack the healer. This is a perfect time for a controller to stun or CC the mob. Tanks don't always have aggro on everything and lots of times groups don't even use a tank. All those controller stuns, KB and levitate stop people from getting killed when tanks lose aggro or just never had it. Other times we keep bothersome mobs "juggled" and CCed while the more important ones are being killed. Sometimes CCing a mob will stop its big attack from even happening.

I find myself in the category of not complaining about being a battery.
However, I do use my light blast as often as possible, stunning as many as 7 enemies at a time.
If I run with a tank, I try to make sure he grabs the attention first.
I'm aware of the issue you mentioned, so at times I'll aim my light blast toward a different group from the tank.
It's always situational, but honestly I've been fortunate enough to not hear any complaints from the tanks I've played with.
Even when I use entrap, so far no complaints.
I am totally open though, if the tank were to complain about my cc'ing, I'd adapt and be respectful to leave him to it.

Thank you for the detailed response. That is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Also It seems you would be a pleasure to tank for since you and I are of the belief that CC is only situational. For the most part I take care of the crowd, you just help to nullify anything I might not be able to get to.

That's what I do with tanks, so far no complaints

All good responses and as I said, I am just inquiring as to what is to be gained by doing such things. What really brings this issue to the forefront with me is the Buff room in Nexus. Every time I pug this raid there is always some troller who feels he is doing us some service by stunning/immobilizing the add. But in reality he is messing up the group. The timing is such in that room that I will pull the add right before he get the buff. But when the add is controlled I can not move him. Which messes with the timing of the buff and in turn one shots follow.

That's probably the number one place where I referred to bouncing adds that are near the boss. If I mistime a debuff, I can bounce that drone away.

A great controller would use the proper stun/levitate/freeze/root where its appropriate. This would come down to the controller knowing the powers at his disposal and what their effects are. Everything about crowd control is situational. The perception that a controller is solely a battery is a mystery when their duties are equally as vital.

I understand that point of view. But do you not think it is helpful to have all the target enemies in one place? IMHO I think it is much better to have one target area to attack rather than to have to go around the room killing enemies one by one. This may just be because I am fire and we are AOE/DOT based for damage. So again JUST MY OPINION, there are no wrong answers here, just trying to understand the mindset of the average controller.

Ok, but what do you mean by vital duties? Could you provide examples? I just would like to know what to look for, so I can rationalize how some controllers play and maybe see the benefit of what they are doing.

^^^
Very much this. A good troller will know what the situation requires. Obviously if the tank needs aggro the troller will be face with deciding what and how the CC should be applied if at all. Some adds require it as StopPerving mentions, some will require that you do not.

It's definitely not an absolute yes or no, if my group is being surrounded by adds that the tank is not reaching, then I'm going to make sure that CC is assisting in their ability to control that situation.
Likewise if a power I put into PoT freezes two of the enemy, one of which was unintended, it's sometimes cannot be helped.

Know your role, the role of everyone in your group, and how best to help and provide the role you are in. It is never going to be 100% perfect all the time, but you can still maintain a good set of that support properly without hindering yourself or the group.

What you just stated is the reason I made this post. I am trying to understand the other perspective. This way maybe it will not be as frustrating when I can not properly do my job, because I have a better understanding as to why/what CC effect was done.

Maybe the tanks and trollers working together is a good option? In fact maybe the whole team working together is a good option.

I'm probably spoiled in that respect, in that I only ever run with 3 different tanks and I know their playstyle. Plus, having a tank alt helps somewhat

I'll only CC in certain situations. Such as if the tank has a group of adds gathered up, I might stun them to ease the damage in for the tank a little. Or if adds are bothering healers, that would be another situation where CC is appropriate. As others have said, it's situational and not to be used "just because".

Refer to Perving's answer as that is how I CC as well.

I would like to address this specific part of your statement though. Healers have one job: heal the group. Their role is very concentrated and the have numerous different heals for numerous different situations to do it with. Tanks are supposed to mitigate damage and make sure that it is directed towards them. They also have a ton of moves to do this with.

When comparing controllers to tanks and healers in that manor, it doesn't make sense to say that they are just batteries. Based on your criteria, controllers would need a full arsenal of moves to heal power. The fact is that controllers don't have said arsenal. We have 2 different kind of moves to heal power with. If we were meant to just meant to heal blue bars the way healers are meant to heal green bars than we would have the same kind of plethora of moves to do so with. The fact is that most of our moves are CCs. PoT is a CC, most debuffs are CC. There are a select few moves that we have that aren't CCs. If anything, based on the way you compared controllers to healers and tanks, they should mainly be concentrating on CCing and give power out as a secondary function.

Controllers are not batteries if they're doing their role in it's entirety. They have more jobs than any role and the people in the community that don't know that just demonstrate their ignorance when they say otherwise.

Back to the issue though, CCs are "situational" like perving said. I agree with all the situations that he mentioned. I would also like to add a situation he did not. While running Nexus and in the buff room, when the drone goes up, I will use Alcubierre Wave on it if the drone is too far from the tank or behind someone so that it is out of LOS for the tank. This will push the drone towards the tank without giving it immunity, thus making the tanks job easier.

Not sure i'f I'm playing a controller right, but pretty much all I do with my Hard Light Controller is Recharge and the mass panic thing on mobs.

Unless I need to DPS.