Controller vs Tank

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by DurangoKid70, Mar 26, 2022.

  1. DurangoKid70 Level 30

    I play as a mental controller and one of the things, correct me if Im wrong ,that a controller does or is supposed to do, is crowd control, which is something I prefer to do over giving power or buffing , however, when you do that,its mainly a tank who complains , mainly it effects his aggro . to me a Tank and a controller could help each other out alot, Ive seen many cases where the tank is being overwhelmed by ads to the point where he or she begs for help and Ive came in and froze the ads so they can get a breather,in other cases they complain about aggro so in some cases I leave them to it and they die(and I know already more experienced tanks can handle it).
    But my question and point is, why dont the Devs fix it to where the controllers and tanks powers can work together rather than against ? . for me its very boring just to give power or buff when I have the powers to do more.
    • Like x 2
  2. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    They can work together. Instant communication via chat is the answer. Tanks don’t want random stuns but that doesn’t mean all tanks never want any stuns. They want them when they want them. If tank can say hey troll stun that group then bam, helpful. If a troll just stuns whenever, not helpful.
    • Like x 4
  3. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    • Like x 1
  4. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    Also this.
  5. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    From my personal experience over the years of playing DCUO, scenarios like what you've described comes down to developing something I like to call "Controller Role Awareness".

    It's knowing when the Tank has things under control and is hitting a stride.
    It's also knowing when an enemy is not under the Tank's influence. That's when it's time for you to do your thing...which is being the "2nd Line of Defense".
    It's also knowing when a disaster is about to occur seconds before it actually happens, and a quick Supercharge Group Shield can prevent it from taking place...sometimes. Your Supercharge can give the Tank or even Healer the few seconds they need to recover from a slip up. For a Tank, it's maybe being Block Broken by that pesky enemy. Trust me when I tell you...NO TANK LIKES BEING BLOCK BROKEN. If you notice your Tank succumbing to a Block Break, keep your eyes open.

    When an enemy decides to say "Screw that person, I'm gonna go cave that DPS's chest in" best believe...they will do it...a Controller must always be ready for action. As a Controller, it's our job to survey the area with eyes wide open. It's our job to keep the DPS and Healers safe from any and all interruption because the less a Tank has to watch out for and think about, the smoother the run will be for everyone.

    Controllers watch ALL THE BLIND SPOTS. A quick STUN can save a player that's slightly out of position from a sneak attack by an enemy the Tank may have missed. It may also involve taking a quick peek at your mini map in the upper right corner of your screen for any enemy dots that seem to be out of place.

    Remember, we are the "2nd Line of Defense"...even though we are in the back. LOL! XD

    Another way of developing this sort of awareness is playing different roles. Understanding what a Tank has to do and has to pay attention to can help you better understand why a Tank does what it does and also empathize. I have four Tanks, but only two are active. I still consider Controller as my main role though.
    • Like x 4
  6. Dominic Blue Committed Player

    I know it can tick some Tanks off but depending on the raid I don't mind if the Troll helps with adds. It can sometimes be a relief to know in add heavy raids that if they start overrunning the group you can have some help when you need it. I'm sometimes relieved to see a HL or Quantum in the group if I'm tanking. That said some trolls can act oddly like they're trying to troll tank and it can get in the way of everyone in that case. So yeah depends on the situation
    • Like x 3
  7. nanoUSB Well-Known Player

    The main complaint is probably that stunning too much gives enemies unwanted immunity, which prevents the tank from pulling, CCing etc. This can, in the worst cases, significantly endanger them or the group when it would have otherwise been preventable.

    This is just general observation, I don't claim to be correct here; but the thing with CC is that different enemies seem to have different, let's call it "Crowd Control Budgets", as in a period of time they can be crowd controlled before they gain immunity for what feels like 8 years. And as far as I've observed, most tank powers just jank, juggle, knock up enemies, which seemingly cuts into said budget far less than a continuous stun.

    I think The Merciless in The One Who Waits Elite is a great example for this dilemma. He's such a nasty enemy despite being a "throwaway spawn-in", the tank will want to carefully save all cc opportunities to keep him from doing his nasty stuff as much as possible until he's down. That's where a controller's stuns can severely mess things up.

    Of course this issue is a case-by-case one, as it doesn't seem to truly matter in most content. Is just the main thing I've noticed, when playing my tank.
    • Like x 1
  8. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    It varies though, BUT it tends to hold true throughout most content.
    Not many players notice this small detail, but enemies tend to have different types of life bars. Enemies that have a generic and plain looking life bar tend to be the ones that are easily CC'd for a good amount of time.
    Then there's enemies with life bars that have a face with "Glowing Eyes". These are the stronger enemy types that have a higher resistance to CCing effects. They may even be immune to CCing in some cases.
    Then there's the Boss Life bars.
    • Like x 1
  9. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    It’s not about affecting aggro. An experienced troll can help with CC but most controls don’t know how the CC mechanics work. Using back to back stuns will cause enemies to become resistant and eventually become immune to CC. This affects tanks pulls. They will maintain aggro but some adds have proximity aggro. In elite this can cause wipes.

    On top of stun causing immunity you also have some trolls using enchantments. Encased enemies take reduced damage and if they break out they get immunity. This is a big issue, especially with gadgets trolls since their sc generator causes encasements.

    As a troll you have to look at what forms of CC your abilities do. Most stuns have some sort of CC attached to them. If you use multiple ones that stun than you actually hurt the group.
    • Like x 2
  10. DurangoKid70 Level 30

    Thats one of my things, as a mental controller ,I prefer crowd controlling over power and buffing(but I do them all) . I have been asked for help from tanks and some dont want it , usually when I use psychic shock on the controller side is when I hear something , however I was able to save a tank using it. but to me it would be cool to get rid of the ad immunity , i think tanks and controllers could kill ads very quickly together , seeing they both have the ability to do it . and let the dps handle the bosses. BUT, I understand the roles.
    • Like x 1
  11. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    That ability is a stun with a .5 second cooldown. Using it will quickly give adds immunity. Especially if you spam it.

    DCUO is not a game designed to be able to just remove immunity. Doing so will make adds pointless.
    • Like x 1
  12. Leonite Well-Known Player

    I remember creating a similar thread. I understand where the tank is coming from but as a gadget troll, my debuffs come with stuns or knockdowns so we can't help it. I've been told not to debuff so I don't disrupt the tank's rotation and I find that an exception rather than normal.

    Anyway, we shouldn't put the blame on tanks or trolls. I think the game should've seen this coming when they decided two roles can do the same thing. Unlike healing, CC from different sources clash and if they don't, they can be abused so choose your poison, I guess?
    • Like x 1
  13. DurangoKid70 Level 30

    yes, that would be good in some point, while it would take away the challenge. they could atleast find a way so the 2 powers dont affect each other
    • Like x 1
  14. DurangoKid70 Level 30

    I agree very much., they shouldve seen it coming. some people will tell me that as well, dont debuff, dont attack the ads, which leaves only with power giving and sometimes the groups power levels arent dropping much to need a controller for that.
  15. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    I don't use encasements in my controller loadout (mental). [sidenote: so many correctly spelled words are being underlined with a red squiggly line on this forum]
    RNG happens with stuns and pulls. :oops:

    I've found in recent weeks, i can debuff damage, defense and a tank can pull the npcs. Using Rao artifact to debuff more if grouped. Mine's at 162, 4 additional npcs & 40% stronger. If th3 tank is using lasso and flinging npcs about the room for fun, that, Shirley, is different and unexpected from a pug tank. A controller should watch the tank for a second, sometimes afk for a minute in the beginning and a DPS starts early, sadly, i watch with a smile from a distance. Wait for that tank. Take a sec and see how the pug is gonna play the role. oh, this one is one of those. /cheer or /wary
  16. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I tank on my alt but the one and only troll CC move that’s ever messed with my add juggling is when mental trolls turn them into phantoms. I’d say that maybe that’s just with Atomic, but I’ve even had Atomic tanks tell me my CC is messing with theirs. But I don’t argue, I just stop CCing and await the complaints about debuffs not getting applied.
    • Like x 2
  17. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I clip stasis field (the encasing sc generating defense debuff) with self destruct (encasement breaker) which is then clipped by defibrillator. One swipe of the thumb, one animation, pot activated, defenses debuffed and zero encasing effect.
    • Like x 2
  18. L T Devoted Player

    Pulls are not Agro; Agro is agro. If hit by a tank ability the adds will target the tank, even if they aren't pulled. Pre-revamp fire tanks are familiar with this concept.

    Adds that are stunned by the controller can still be pulled unless they break out and get immune. Only raid type adds as a rule do this.

    The controller's CC can be very useful to the tank. A really good Troll means I can run shield consumables instead of stun consumables. There are lots of adds that can annoy the tank and the best way to handle them tends to be for the troll to pull them off to the side and keep them stunned or juggled. Obviously your DPS players need to be on board with this strategy, and sadly, they rarely are.
    • Like x 3
  19. Furnburn Active Player

    And then I'm questioned because I go all out might with amplified heat vision when I'm not supposed to be stunning as a munitions character that benefits from burning and shouldn't be using attacks that burn and stun too. I'm also questioned because I use the cog and tetrahedron artifacts to keep the group buffed with heat vision and ranged cross-weapon attacks without having to stun. I keep being told to be a troll and that I'm expected to be a troll but not everyone wants to do what other people are expecting them to do with their time and their money. I also max out my health and domination with lair mods because the higher my health is the better my artifact buffs are and my role is to dominate not to heal. Sure, people expect power heals and vitalization but tell Batman, Joker and Deathstroke to spec themselves out to be a healer in the middle of a war while wearing a nurse uniform. I'm not going to heal just because munitions are able to, that's not my role. If I'm not meeting other people's expectations I'm meeting my own which is fine with me. If I wanted to be a healer I'd make healer my role and if I wanted to annoy tanks with stuns I would not buff them with heat vision and would be the homogeneous cookie cutter clone META troll everyone is using that's interfering with a tank's role and getting groups wiped.
  20. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Dude please get back in your thread and go over this with us. Everything you just said is all bad. Dominance in your gen is useless and terrible. Head augs for the health. Not on your gen mod
    • Like x 1