Controller Role Truth(To The Devs): I'm Not Sure Why This Is So Hard To Understand....

I think it's funny that you say I'm against DPS and that I don't know what it takes to be "top" DPS. First off, been a DPS since day one, always was; always will be. Secondly I'm up top 1st or 2nd DPS(with little to no effort, simply doing my rotation as usual.) when I run with my league, if it's just randoms 99% of the time I'm on top. My problem with DPS(coming from a f'n DPS) is that the majority of DPS are too worried about their ego. Too worried about the scoreboard and their numbers and I could simply care less. For me, the team comes first, I can be in the middle of casting plague, but if a teammate of mine drops and I can pick them up I will stop what I'm doing and grab them. Who cares if someone get's higher than me on the scoreboard? There's honestly nothing worse than a scoreboard warrior. Most wipes are fueled by a DPS refusing to pick someone up leaving a support role, who really shouldn't even have to, to pick the person/people up. THAT is my problem with DPS. Like I said before it's nothing more than an irrelevant pissing match and at the end of the raid when you leave, then what? Oh yay I got top DPS. K? I've done too many raids and will do too many more to care about my damage out for every single run. It's beyond irrelevant.

I understand the value of a good controller. But a lot of you guys really overstate and over-exaggerate how difficulty the role is to play. We have to CC adds in one room in one instance. And even then, the tank could really just do it if he's good enough. Let's stop pretending that casting Distortion Wave (or whatever CC move) every few seconds if difficult.

I don't think it's hard at all, but I do think it's harder to do that + everything else, than it is to do any other role other than tanking(depending on the power). I've yet to play any role that requires more attention and thinking(again other than tanking) than trolling does. Maybe it's just the way I play, I like to leave no room for error so I'm always on my feet. It seems like some people just do the minimum as a troll(pot, IP, SC) and some others do the most to full utilize the role. I for one cannot and will not reduce myself to nothing more than a portable Energizer Bunny.

Iconic tanking pretty much shows that tanking is not a difficult role at all. While EO tanking is still pretty difficult, it really has more to do with just knowing how to lock the bosses by the pillar, once they're there it's just business as usual.
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/epic-wins-guide-to-iconic-tanking.2188/

Dpsing is not hard, from what I hear healing is a snooze fest also.
Trolling is a little bit more involved since and you can watch over the whole group better than any role, so pick ups have become a secondary troll job. I do admit that it gets boring when all you do is troll.

So what you are saying is that you are not willing to perform the role in that way even if it that is optimal for the group? That's a serious question because if you're CC'ing and debuffing when you don't need to then you're really not any better than DPSes who don't pick people up. You're just another guy who's just playing the game as he sees fit. You are well within your rights to do so, but don't make yourself out to be something you're really not and don't rip on others for just doing the same.

I was actually just talking about a Tank doing the Manhunters in A/B himself as opposed to having the trolls do it.

Almost missed this post! You've been quite clearly stating that you think damage dealers are poisoning the groups, how they're at fault always and/or how they don't care for the group.

At this point I'm quite certain that you don't know what it takes to be at the top, you have no idea how much effort goes into it. Good damage dealers don't google their loadouts, they figure them out by themselves and improve them.

When I'm healing raids or alerts, I'm generally at the top of the scorecard. What does that tell you about random people? Also, your league tells be absolutely nothing, except that you keep saying you aren't even trying and still tend to be at the top, which would mean that they aren't good at what they do.

I'll help you with that ego problem: everyone with a big ego are problem. It doesn't matter which role you play, it doesn't matter who you are and it doesn't matter what you think. It's a universal problem. Also, I've said it multiple times, you don't count as good if you can't do the basic tasks and do your own role really well. Most wipes are also fueled by incompetence, that's not just a problem among damage dealers, it's another universal problem.

Not sure how you managed to get from "damage dealing requires a lot of effort if you want to reach the top" to this. These problems you raised have nothing to do with the amount of effort that goes into doing the damage role properly.

First off, my leagues DPS' are beasts. Secondly have you ever thought that maybe I'm at the top as a DPS with little effort because I'm y'know...actually good at it? Having to put in huge amounts of effort to be top doesn't exactly make you good, if anything wouldn't it be the other around? Wouldn't a DPS that can put get to the top with little effort be better and more skilled than one that actually has to think and do all this extra? Do NOT speak to me with such a condescending attitude. Telling me that good dps don't google their loadouts? Do I look like a SmileB4DEATH fangirl to you? I put weeks into fully mastering and finding my own unique way to DPS. I've been DPSing for ~3 years now I think I know what I'm doing. Anyone can be top DPS with randoms, my cat could be top dps. You were supposed to get more out of the whole league run thing but you insisted on assuming I would bring my league up for no reason. I wouldn't note someone/something if they weren't credible. Once again I'm not another random noob so don't consider me to be one. All of the DPS in my league go above and beyond what is "required" as a DPS and then some and I can still go toe to toe with them. I already know you're going to say that they're bad because I'm undergeared and I can keep up blah blah. I don't let my gear or my power set limits to me. A beast will be a beast, there are no limits.

You just said you beat them in damage without even trying.

Both of those statements can't be true.

No, no I haven't. As long as you say you're doing with little to no effort, there's no chance for that. It's unfortunate you don't play on EUPC, I could personally demonstrate you what I mean, but since that's not possible, I'm sure you'll encounter some good damage dealer on your own server sooner or later.

It doesn't automatically make it good, you can waste a lot of effort on something that doesn't work, but there's no troll kind of one button solution which is easy and simple, it will always require a lot of effort if you want to reach the top and beat the best of the best. The thing is, you clearly have never played with good players, as long as you can beat random people with minimal effort, they aren't good. Even with FoTM power it's not that easy to beat good players.

I'm sorry, but to me you appear to be like any other random person. You keep saying things that make no sense and contradict each other. Overall I'd say you're either a troll (not the role) or just some bad random player, who has no idea about anything.

To give you an idea what I mean with good damage dealers or good players overall, here's a good example:

EDIT: since rage is currently the FoTM power and extremely easy to use, here's another example with HL:

All the tank has to do is spam knock downs, knock backs and/or juggles to prevent the manhunts from charging up sinestro. Especislly under pressure. So saying all you really need is a "good" tank isn't really accurate lol. Just spamming power to control requires you to be good? While doing that the tank would be taunting and possibly cycling through survival powers anyway.

You dont have to spam The tank has to pay attention to the manhunters animation for the charge up? Why even bother with that if a controller can control the NPC for 15+ seconds and drag them across the room?

The end result is a tank consuming a large amount of power as if the tank was dpsing with powers. We all know how serious we take tanks who have to consume a larger amount of power than everyone else.

Can a tank do it himself? Yea.
Does it require a "good" tank? Not really.
Is controlling in that room difficult for a controller? No way. Not for me even though some players find it difficult.
Which do I find a smarter a approach? A controller casting their control effects once every which last 15+ seconds and separates the manhunters from the bosses so that damage doesn't split on those individual targets. Or a tank blowing more power to control a NPC because they can't apply a control effect last 15+ seconds, and splits damage since now there are more than 2 targets where the bosses are. So that's registering less damage on the individual target.

Yea I think both can work but both aren't difficult. That's reality. I think one is clearly a better option than the other.



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Separate.
Which reminds me. Greenman_x once stated it'd be a good a idea to make it so tanks can't control specific targets. Now that I think about it. It might be best to remove a tanks ability to control entirely since they really are damage sponges. Cycling powers to stay alive, taking advantage of the combat mechanics on bosses, and taunting is what a tank is supposed to do.

The only reason they can knock down, knock back, and juggle is because of what spord said (on the description of what dom does) and that is to prevent enemies from beating them down. Its seriously time to get rid of that especially with the control target amount buff on 36 and even more so if they begin adding more nps that can be controlled for 15+ seconds in raids. their puny power bar is too limiting. Controllers can easily do that for them with a cast of their powers. Controllers can push and pull too to group up NPCs and can effect 8 npcs with one power. It'll require more strategy from them, shield use and all but still do able.

With weapon mastery being so OP they'll be power to control. If the team uses alot of power for whatever the reason then they just need to play smart and conserve until the NPCs are ready. Or forget it and just go all out and extent the control duration on NPCs before they breakout in raids.

Going forward I think I'm set on this. Tanks cannot control. Just block, combat counter, cycle your powers to stay alive, do a little weapon damage and taunt. Taunt and NPCs will walk/ run towards you anyway. Tanking from a distance does exist. The ones that don't obviously still target you from a distance. Having the tank go first to taunt might be needed more before and engagement. But tanks are not controllers. If they take on more npcs than they can handle its time to rely on team work and let the controllers alleviate damage in. Get rid of it devs for tanks. Or at the very least the ONLY thing tanks should be able to do is apply a physical pull.

If anyone thinks that you need a physical pull to taunt a boss... Just stop.

Well considering the fact that he didn't say he wanted to CC and debuff when it wasn't needed just to not be a Battery, your whole point is invalid. Using the role to its full potential is always more optimal for the group than being a straight Battery. Always has been. If you don't know that then there isn't much point in having a conversation about it. The fact is that the battery mode (doing nothing but spam Instant Power and tapping range while waiting for it to be off cooldown) is needed for less time in a raid than CCing and debuffing should be utilized.

There you go with the ego. I've never played with good players? Okay. I cannot talk to you anymore.

Controllers Control. That is the role of the job so that is what I do. I can do all of that and put out power just fine. There's a cooldown on IP anyways so you can clip IP with any debuff/CC when needed. I'm not going to be a portable energizer bunny because that's not what controllers are supposed to be. I'm not just gonna follow in everyone else footsteps and be a sheep.

Like I said, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play the game your way. But it's simply no different than DPSes who constantly put themselves at risk and refuse to pick people up. They are playing their way too.

But unlike me they aren't exactly helping the group. I only debuff/CC when it is needed which still helps the group. Not picking someone up and putting yourself at risk only hinders it.

Actually, I specifically said "if you're CC'ing and debuffing when it isn't needed" so nice try. And who knows maybe you have a different criteria for when those things are needed.

Debuff: Anytime a debuff isn't up, I will put it up.

CC: Anytime there is something nearby that I can CC.

Like I said only when it's needed(or when I feel it is need). If something is debuffed why debuff it again? For me that is what being a Controller means. Using my Crowd CONTROL abilities when there is something that can be CC'd.

EDIT: You said nothing about CCing or Debuffs at all in the post I was replying to.

You all should be put on cool down

control yourselfs... see what I did there

You don't know what optimum is... Your still wrong.

Again just because you don't know how to or the trollers you run with don't understand immunity or teamwork and can only perform half their role's duties without getting in the tanks way doesn't mean that's the optimum play style.

Everything a controller does(offensively) will CC. It's passive sort of like breathing. You should stop posting here this thread has never been beneficial for anyone. You not understanding simple control mechanics isn't helping. I will say it again. Everything offensive a controller does will apply a control effect. It's a byproduct of attacking. Something a controller needs to do to continue powering the group.

For the record controller role isn't that hard. Anyone, and I mean anyone can be a battery. Controlling doesn't even take that much work since everything a controller does will control. CC helps all throughout the game. You and many don't notice because everyone is overgeared now(again). Go do some low level stuff with appropriate level geared players and see how CC can make a difference for group survivability/damage. That is something the tank and controller can do together.

its nt that im saying trolls shouldnt give power and yees when mobs are on instakillits easy to say no debuffs. ill give u an example of what i mean. I have a earth dps cr 95 100sp hes percision based range now i random queued 4 bia the troll threw nt 1 debuff or recharge just pot his tick was 212. and he used his sc. he blamed every1 else be cause he was 103 and we werent. thats y i say that but when its the other was around the 103 expect cr 95 trolls to have the pot n recharge to keeep thier power up so they never have 2 use thier weapon. i love trolling its insanly fun but my 101 103sp troll in a alert is nt fun because of the simple fact that i dnt feel like im trolling it feels more like slave work. ive been trolling almost 9months. been tanking 4 around 6months been healing 4 about 2 years. trolling is the only 1 that feels like slave labor pot pot pot pot pot its on the 3rd tick ppl i swear it gets agreevating some times