Controller Power Revamp

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by The Dark4, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    And just another thought: Even though tank and healer powersets have their own unique mechanics, no one is asking for one specific power to group up with over the other. BUT what I do see a lot of people do is ask for roles with specific artifacts. Control powersets having their own mechanics isn't go to make one power more desirable over the other unless there was some sort of inbalance.
  2. zNot Loyal Player

    The amount of complaints of people on topics such as selective community to cant find a group because im not buff trolling should be proof enough,the devs already know this so its funny how the same couple people on the forum will decline this,while we see newer forum users complaing about things that i talk about often what proof do you want? Do i ever see newer users that think like you? No its the same ones because people on the live server arent a fan of this and many dont come to the forums because they know how the same few forum users will start discussions and try to sugarcoat their complaints. You always look for excuses every-single-time.
    • Like x 1
  3. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    This game has and will always have a “selective community”. They will not choose a dps if they know they are weak. They will not choose a tank or healer that’s weak either. Most won’t want anyone that doesn’t have all 200 artifacts. Battery trolls= content takes longer. Bad burners= content takes longer. No one wants that. When I’m healing or tanking a new elite, I don’t want that. No one wants there to be more opportunities to die. Players can choose to not follow meta. They can build their own groups, make their own friends, or just stay out of harder content. They can even go anti meta and prove they’re a valuable addition to the team.

    I’ve said this to you before and you never seem to want to admit it but stopping one meta leads to another. Squash prec and everyone goes electric and muni might. Squash those and maybe pet builds take over and every single player needs to swap builds or be excluded. There is nothing that will change that. The meta artifacts have been out for yearsssss. A long long time in any games lifespan. Anyone choosing to not be meta has chosen not to feed their existing artis into the metas at least once cuz doubles happen often. Change EoG. Change gadgets. Change the buff troll artifacts. Be ready for another mass exodus of players. Cuz the only choice will be change everything the next double or spend an insane amount.

    Back on the actual topic of trolls wanting more to do: who y’all running with? Most of my best troll buddies are basically refusing to troll these days because they don’t want the responsibility. I’ve been newbie tanking the new raid and all I ask os that the troll helps me with proma on the lunges cuz that’s the one thing that can kill me. I try myself, have a lot going on so any time a troll helps, it’s the easiest fight and we get past it in mins. Lfg groups: do your own lunges. Most of the time, sure. Caught off guard once or something’s on cd and I’m down and it’s a wipe. My view is generally a pair of kneecaps or the floor as I’m rolling around. But if a troll gets it every time, easy peasy. Nah they’re doing other more important stuff I guess?
    • Like x 1
  4. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Because it’s common nature for people to be more vocal about what they do want. I don’t see many threads where people say how much they love EoG or buff trolls. Or how some say they love a specific artifact or how they did good at so and so. Look at the news. You mostly hear about bad news. You seeing more complaints has little to do with what people actual do and like. It’s about what people are talking about.

    Yes I want proof. Actual proof instead of you constantly making over exaggerated claims based on your biased opinions
    • Like x 1
  5. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player


    Definitely see what you mean. I’m just saying that depending on the passives it could turn one troll into the must have leaving the other troll having to make a choice about switching power. What if the quantum trolls ability to reduce cooldown makes EoG stronger. Or electrics CB lowered cooldown. Or if it lets HL go from HC back into HC. Or other abilities that normally need a bridge all of a sudden not needing one. What about munitions explosive charges. Point is that small passives like these could have a larger impact.

    Again, if actually love that uniqueness. Just reserved about it
    • Like x 1
  6. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    We want a controller power revamp but this is coming from role that hitting POT once every 25 seconds and if you had multiple controllers in the group to not POT if your VIT was lower was too complicated a concept to grasp and was taken completely out of the game to automate a core mechanic of the entire role.

    :oops:
    • Like x 1
  7. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Lol I remember those days
  8. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    I was just spit balling ideas but I agree with what you're saying. They would have to balance controller passives so that one isn't greater than another. That's why I also wrote "chance to" so their mechanics aren't up all the time, there can be an internal cooldown + a "trigger" that the player would need to use actively. Hard Light definitely needs a detaunt option.

    And you bring up another good issue: why are we balancing multiple powers around one artifact that is clearly itself imbalanced?
    • Like x 1
  9. Illumin411 Devoted Player

    A tank taunts, pulls and juggles enemies because otherwise they would kill the players who are taking the bosses health down and/or kill the players healing the players taking the bosses health down and/or kill the players providing power, shields and buffs to the players taking the bosses health down. All that being said, bosses can technically be beaten without players taunting, pulling, juggling or absorbing most of the damage. But they can't be beaten without damage.

    Controllers manage, stun and weaken adds so that they don't kill the players taking the bosses health down or kill the players healing the players taking the bosses health down. They weaken bosses so that the players taking the bosses health down can do so more efficiently and so that bosses don't kill the players keeping agro away from the players taking the bosses health down. They provide power so that the players taking the bosses health down can use their damaging powers as much and as best as possible and so that the players healing the players taking the bosses health down can use their healing powers and also so that the players keeping agro away from the players taking the bosses health down can use their powers as well. They provide shields to keep the players taking the bosses health down alive as well as keep alive the players healing the players taking the bosses health down and the players keeping aggro away from the players taking the bosses health down. All that being said, bosses can technically be beaten without players providing power to the group, shielding the group, stunning adds or debuffing adds and bosses. But they can't be beaten without damage.


    What artifacts could you use instead that are anywhere close as helpful. An artifact that makes you have to debuff twice as often just to consolidate two useful debuffs in to one slot? An artifact that slows add movement when you and the tank can already control adds perfectly fine? An artifact that provides more power when the power provided without it is more than sufficient? An artifact that boosts everyones health when 80% or more of incoming damage scales to your health anyway??? There's a good argument for the soul cloak but between healer group shields and EoG spams allowing group shields to be used immediately off cooldown, the overall positive impact and necessity of the soul cloak is reduced significantly enough that its benefit is far exceeded by boosts to damage against bosses.

    Healers heal so that the players taking the bosses health down can be alive to do so. Dead DPS do no damage. They also heal the players taking aggro away from the players taking the bosses health down. And yes, they also heal the players who provide power and shields to the players taking the bosses health down, weaken bosses so that the players taking the bosses health down can do so more efficiently and stunning adds so they don't kill the players taking the bosses health down. All that being said, bosses can technically be beaten without players healing the group. But....say it with me now......they can't be beaten without damage.

    Notice any patterns??? It all flows to one singular group goal/focus. Loot drops when bosses die and bosses die when damage has been done to them in excess of their heath pool. Tanks, controllers and healers are all SUPPORTING the players (hopefully) doing damage in excess of the bosses health pool as well as support each other's efforts to support the players (hopefully) doing damage in excess of the bosses health pool.
    If you know of an alternate way to beat boss fights, I'm all ears. They say you learn something new everyday and I'm hoping today I learn how to beat boss fights using an alternate method than doing damage to bosses in excess of their health pools. I gots my learning hat on!!

    Absent this alternate method, there is only one current known method ie doing damage to the boss in excess of their health pool (again, with a few boss fights being rare exceptions. ) While executing this method, if a tank goes out but the troll, healer and DPS's feel like they can finish killing the boss, they do so. If the healer(s) goes/go out but the tank DPS's and troll feel like they can finish killing the boss, they do so. If the troll goes out but the tank, healer and DPS's feel like they can finish killing the boss, they do so. If the DPS's go out, unless the boss only has a sliver left, IT'S A WIPE. Well, unless the troll has a battletroll LO as OP as mine, then maybe...just maaaaaaybe. :cool:
  10. Controller Devoted Player

    This is why I'm personally choosing to make such a big stink about it.

    I wouldn't even call it "Complaining" but "Serious Concern"......

    When folks sit by and let stuff happen and don't say a word, before you know it you have a plate full of p o o p sitting in front of you and you're wondering "What the heck just happened......?"

    You're then given a fork and you have no choice but to EAT IT.

    Bottom line is that a portion of this community - whether in game OR Forums - isn't interested in DPS'ING. I have NO IDEA what that percentage is.

    I know I personally never have been - in my 8+ years playing this game. I've only gotten better at HL DPS because I've HAD TO - not necessarily because I "WANTED" to.

    I personally love Controlling - and have SERIOUS CONCERNS about how the role has changed - in regards to ARTIFACTS and how some in the Game Community view us.

    I have SERIOUS CONCERNS that - just from this FORUM THREAD ALONE - the RAO AMULET seems to be the ONLY "Conventional Controlling" Artifact left in some of our inventories, with a Claw and / or Tetra / Cog replacing OTHER artifacts that I've personally used as a Controller like BoP, Soul Cloak, Harness and such.

    I've already stated SEVERAL times in this thread that I "CAN" live with the Claw in my inventory. I'll even accommodate DPS what want me to run with a Tetra. But the push to have us - by some - to use Cogs or Tetras leaves us with no ARTIFACT identity, to ME.

    Some would say "Well you can STILL debuff.....you can STILL use group shields.....you can STILL do everything you normally do as a Controller."

    [IMG]

    Because with my BoP gone I cannot SPREAD THE LOVE for my Debuffs.

    With my Soul Cloak gone I cannot PROTECT THE GROUP with GROUP SHIELDS at a rate I normally can.

    I know I speak for "SOME" in the community....certainly don't claim to speak for ALL but I won't be silent.

    A new Controller Artifact would be nice. I know I've personally given some ideas in this thread. Have NO IDEA how the coding would go for a new Controller artifact but I'll leave that to people a lot smarter than I.

    Make it POTENT enough so The Larger Gaming Community will NEED to keep it in Controller's Inventories - regardless whether it's Elite, Regular, raids OR alerts. And make it CONTROLLER-BASED - with NO or LITTLE DAMAGE ENHANCEMENT for DPS......................
    • Like x 1
  11. zNot Loyal Player

    Yes we need one badly!
  12. Controller Devoted Player

    At the end of the day - I think we both intend on completing the instance.

    I just believe - at this point - some place higher value on certain things than others.

    Such is DCUO.
  13. The Dark4 Well-Known Player

    Thanks guys for all the input and keeping it civil :)
    • Like x 1
  14. Tolly Committed Player

    The controller role is already neglected enough by the community when it comes to instances with less than 8 players and you would like to make it even worse? no to this idea!

    The controller role has never been as fun to play as it is now, it's fine as it is.
    • Like x 1
  15. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Anything less than 8 players the role becomes absolutely unecessary. Any role that has 0 value outside of 8 man content is considered a failure. Even at 8 man player content we have seen that trollers have to have X artifacts to be considered.

    However at the same time, the role is fine as is because of the way artifacts are in the game. You cannot fundamentally change the role without adjusting the troller artifacts as well. So its best for them to leave it as is and focus more on power and movement mode balance
  16. TI99Kitty Dedicated Player

    Believe me, as someone who mainly heals, but also occasionally tanks, I notice. And I appreciate it very much.
    • Like x 1
  17. TI99Kitty Dedicated Player

    While that seems like a reasonable perk for healers, I'd just like to say, whether I'm a healer or a tank, I don't want the healer picking up. A healer that's picking up is a healer that is basically taken out of the battle at a bad time. I mean, as a healer, I've had to make a choice between picking someone up or letting one or more other people go down. Usually that happens in a group where the DPSes are competing with the tank for who can melee the boss the most, and are too busy trying to top the scorecard to be bothered. If I think I won't be taken away from healing for too long, I'll attempt to pick up. But if the group is in danger of wiping, then I'm sorry, but it looks like you're sitting out the rest of the fight.

    When I'm tanking, I definitely don't want the healer stopping to do a pick up -- whether it was someone else who went down, or me. Especially if it was me that went down, and especially especially if I'm the only tank.
    • Like x 1
  18. Talks2MuchSense Well-Known Player

    Been waiting for someone to point out that DCUO is one of the only MMOs that actually has a Controller Role, and how other MMOs have made "The Big 3" Roles far more enjoyable merely by the lack of having a Controller Role at all.

    6 pages and not one person has considered that the best thing to happen for the Controller Role is for it to be removed. Interesting...
    • Like x 3
  19. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Nobody wants to say it out loud. Controller should be an optional playstyle, not a role on its own.
    • Like x 2
  20. The Dark4 Well-Known Player

    honestly I have been playing some other MMOs and ive noticed that essentially the controller role is combined into their main build....they buff themselves, they buff the group, they debuff their own targets, and they manage their power usage. I think trolling is a unique role specifically for this game but can defiantly be done with and the game wouldn't notice and i think its because some of us this is the only mmo we have been exposed to not knowing that having a troller role is the minority when it comes to character roles for all MMOs. Its a shell shock when people switch from this game to another, because it was for me. I was shocked how a whole role in dc was being done by each player in the group and it was like no one missed a beat.