Controller Power Revamp

Yes. That's what I said. The support roles primarily support the DPS. Even when they're supporting other support roles, they're doing so so that those roles can better support the DPS. And btw, I'm as much of a controller as I am a DPS. In fact, more people around the game think of me as a controller as opposed to a DPS.

No sarcasm here....Dr. Phil humor aside I was being completely honest and transparent.

What puzzles me to no end is that you seemed to think I was being sarcastic.

I've exuded "TEAM WORK" through my pores since I first downloaded this game.

You appear to focus on damage. I focus on what Controllers can do to MITIGATE damage (and - unfortunately, lately - ENHANCE damage).

You say "Tomato"...I say "Tomahto"....

At the end of the day we BOTH want to BEAT the raid, right? I know "I" do and I believe you do, too.

Just because my philosophy is different doesn't mean I don't play well with others.

I reiterate from a recent post:

Trolls don’t mitigate damage thou. You debuffs and buff while giving power. Yes you have the occasional stuns but stuns don’t work on bosses. Never have. You’ve tried painting a picture that trolls used to do so much but that’s not true. Trolls have been the simplest role since it’s introduction. All the stuff you claim trolls used to have to do trolls still do now. Trolls give power, debuff, and stun targets. That is still in the game.

Debuffs last 12 seconds. What did a troll do back in the day after debuffs were up? Spammed power dump. Aka being batteries. Even the most “complex” troll skill was a way to give more power. The only thing that used to separate a bad troll from a good troll was their ability to do the double tick of power. So give more power. So being batteries.

Since I know you will try to deny that I’ll move on from that.

You say that you want the troll role to be more or have more leeway. Or have more options. The troll role is literally the more versatile role in the game. You can be a power troll or a buff troll. You can also be a battle troll. For alerts you can also dps in troll role to and add the defense debuff to increase the groups overall damage. Trolls are the most versatile role in the game.

You make claims that trolls have to swap arts. That is not true at all. Some trolls swap arts. Most do not. Some dps swap arts. Most do not. You and some others are trying to paint this false picture that swapping is scourging the game. It’s not. You can buff troll with just the rao tetra and cog. No other arts needed. You personally wanted to get the bop. You also wanted the soul cloak, harness, and whatever arts you personally chose to level and claim that it’s needed. I do not troll with any of those extra stuff and have never had any issues finding groups. I’ve also never ever seen anyone shouting for inventory players for content. You chose to do something and then painted it as being forced to do so.

Deny it all you want but the troll role is literally a jumbled mix of abilities that normally are a part of other roles. There is only so much you can do with this because of the foundation of the role design. Debuff, buff, give power. What else do you want from the role?

And you want troll arts ti be made so strong that they become mandatory. That is not good for the role. That is just good for you because you want everyone to play how you like.

So I agree with most of the above post. The one thing I will add is trolls do mitigate damage (shields and debuffs). The cool part about being a troll is that you are the Swiss Army knife of the roles. People complaining that there isn’t a define job of the troll seem to want things to be static. I trolled when trolls were actual batteries….I’m good that was insanely boring. Now I can easily adapt to the group. More experienced groups better buffs and I can rely on them upholding their end. Group that needs more hand holding. More focus on timing, callouts and perfect support (ie controlling the battlefield). I can give more power, do solid damage, and/or buff/debuff. If you are bored trolling, that is probably how you troll. If you think trolls aren’t super valuable you are probably running easier content. Go do crit elite without a troll and tell me how it goes. Is a lack of a good troll going to stop success…. Maybe depending on the players/content. But a good/great troll 100% makes things better/easier.

Yoda says you dont like the truth

It’s not a matter of what I like or don’t like. I only use EoG for elite alerts and duos as it’s more power efficient and I only use neo-venom, no 25% SC’s. So it’s inconsequential to me. I only disagree with your logic. The loadout you’re constantly campaigning to be taken away is only beneficial when the team/group is working together to stack damage. It’s collaborate in nature and therefor does not provide some sort of unfair advantage to gadgets DPS over others. If group members don’t like the idea of gadgets dps’s with EoG and 25%’s in stealth to tally a bunch of extra damage on the scoreboard, all they have to do is not go in their circle which will make that strategy a damage loss, not a gain.

But this is off topic. I’m sure we’ll have a chance to rehash this again and again every time somebody with a subpar loadout and rotation gets their panties in a bunch over a fellow group members damage results.

I’m focusing on damage because:

A: again, damaging the boss(es) to point that their health reaches zero is literally the goal of every group in every boss fight in ever instance save for a few rare exceptions and…

B: this was the topic you have been bringing up. I’m replying to you.

C: Nothing else about the controller roll has been diminished or taken away save for how much power out players require. Our CC, our debuffs, our shields, etc have been the same for quite some time. Now I’m totally with you in that I’d love to see more raid mechanics that emphasize a necessity for those controller abilities much like in PCe 1st boss with the suppressor. I’m with you in lobbying for that cause. But lamenting the meta shift from power troll builds to buff troll builds is where you lose me. As I’ve stated multiple times previously, everything a controller does now is the same as it was before the buff troll meta except the reduction in group power necessity carved room for us to help the group via passive damage buffs. But the things controllers are actively doing largely remains unchanged.

It dont matter what you „claim“ you use,it matters what the endgame population is using which means players in your group your attempt to trying to make it seem harmless already speaks louder then your „claims“.

I myself play and benefit with players who use that stuff mentioned above but that shouldnt matter,its not balanced and it gatekeeps the community which is something anyone who doesnt care about already shows its selfish intention.

For 1-A:

"Damaging the boss(es) to the point their health reaches zero is literally the goal of every DPS in every group in every boss fight......."
I'll add further - "Taunting and keeping bosses' (and ADDS) attention AWAY FROM the group is the goal of every TANK....Tanks are ALSO responsible for a myriad of OTHER associated tasks in conjunction with this".

Managing adds, stunning adds, weakening adds AND BOSSES, providing POWER to the group, SHIELDING the group from damage AND DYING....shielding ONESELF from damage and dying (because a DEAD Controller can't possibly DO what I've typed in these two sentences.......)
....and YES - unfortunately - on top of what I just stated in the previous two sentences CONTROLLERS are NOW expected to ENHANCE damage output from DPS...........this is a RECENT develop that has insidiously been heaped on this role.

Healers? Keep the group ALIVE.....using a diverse set of associated tasks in order to carry this important role to fruition.

Now......YES - "EVERY" Role here IS doing DAMAGE.....even though that resulting damage is NOT 3 of these Roles PRIMARY DUTY......but YOUR focus, Illumini - whether intentional or not - seems to be focused on DAMAGE.....

Thoughts?

You listed quite a few extremely important things crucial to a run followed by saying they aren’t doing much of anything. I bet you’re a dps.

I haven't read the entire thread, but sure this has been said.
Whatever idea the devs like here, it will be put in an artifact.
No revamp.

Why do you always try to derail every thread over your personal bias? You’ve been asked many times to provide actual proof to back your claims but never do. Why should your claims be believed over others claims? You never provide any proof.

You are trying to exaggerate the trolls job. A trolls primary duty is NOT to handle adds. I’ve never seen a troll be the primary choice to go and handle adds. If adds need to be handled for a specific reason they are don’t by a tank or even by a second tank. Yes there are a very few occasions where it fell on the troll to handle a specific add but never adds in general.

Look at tswe, if adds were to much for a tank to handle than they would have a second tank to grab the adds while 1 tank grabbed Lois. What about the fight with murk and them. Depending on skill if tank, they could have had 3 tanks. 1 tank pulling a single boss, one for the extra bosses, and 1 for the adds. Or if the tanks were skilled 1 to pull the single boss and one to pull the other bosses and adds. What about throne of the dead elite? When it first came out it wasn’t the trolls job to handle adds. One or 2 tanks (depending on skill) would hold the adds while the other tank handle ares.

You are trying to exaggerate the trolls duties to make it seem like “now they gotta do x too”. The troll role is the easiest role to do. You stun the occasional add. You maintain debuffs. You maintain power. And you now also give buffs to the group. Let’s look at these tasks.

Stun occasional add: as stated above you don’t maintain adds. You will stun the occasional add the spawns away from the tank so that they don’t attack group. Until the tank can pull. Or if the adds are building up you stun them to give tank breathing room. Trying to “handle” adds and over stun will build up there immunity and actually hurts the group and can lead to wipes in elite content.

Main debuffs: debuffs last 12 seconds. So you hit 3 abilities every 12 seconds and your done. Unless you use bop which makes debuffs last 6 seconds in which case you use 2 abilities every 12 seconds. Not really rocket science.

Maintain power: if you don’t use claw than you hit the power dump as needed almost on cooldown for some groups. If you use the claw than you use the power dump every 12 seconds. And pot runs in the background without you needing to do anything.

Buff group: tetra buffs might when you use a super power. So when you use a debuff you also buff groups might. So again not doing anything special. When you use a cross weapon combo you buff the groups precision. So instead of use a weapon combo clipped with a debuff you now use a cross weapon combo into a debuff.

Even with the new tasks a troll “has” to do the troll role still remains the easiest role to do. But at the same time it’s the most versatile role for many reasons I listed before.

If that artifact is a CONTROLLER-SPECIFIC artifact that's actually POTENT enough to FORCE DPS to choose between LESS DAMAGE artifacts from a CONTROLLER and let that Controller function in his / her NATURAL ELEMENT?

I'll be like my man Fred Sanford:

Tell you what, DPS-LEANING DCUO players....

If Poster ALB's comment EVER comes to fruition in the form of a NEW Artifact and it's for Controllers I'll actually COMPROMISE on my stance here somewhat.

I'll let you have my 200 Claw of Eklund artifact spot in exchange for me being able to use my TWO REMAINING SLOTS to focus on being a CONTROLLER.....



And I'm actually SMILING behind that mask....trust me lol.

Compromise what? No one is forcing you to level all those artifacts you keep talking about. You keep talking about the trolls have to do so many things which is a lie or at best an exaggeration. Making an art that’s so strong it becomes mandatory is a terrible idea since you take the options and play styles away from people just because you want everyone to play how you want. So again, being biased.

How about we brainstorm unique mechanics specific to Gadgets, Mental, Light, Quantum and Munitions first AND THEN we can discuss artifact ideas to compliment those.
Gadgets - chance to spawn a cloud of experimental solution, stepping into the cloud will restore some health and power + one random effect such as: (increase speed, shield, increase criticals, stat buff, transform you into a manbat)

Mental - chance to mind control non-boss enemies for 12 seconds making them temporary allies

Light (Hero) - your aura has a chance to detaunt nearby enemies, nearby allies receive a critical buff + immunity to Terror or Panic CC effects

Light (Villain) - your aura has a chance to Terrify nearby enemies, nearby allies receive a critical buff + immunity to Dazed CC effects

Quantum - chance to increase rate of cooldown on all abilities and supercharge abilities for allies within range

Munitions - ranged weapon attacks of you and your allies have a chance to explode causing additional damage

While I personally like the idea of passives, my concern is that this would end up making some troll powers mandatory. Tank powers being the most unique do deferent things to achieve the same result. That being staying alive and mitigating damage. Healers have different ways to do the same thing which is keep players alive.

Give trolls unique effects ends up making one troll better then the other. Maybe not in all situations but in some.

I’m just chiming in to say claw/ rao/ tetra is all my troll has for artifacts (excluding his scrap and EoG for dps side) and I’m more than happy to play that way. Have 2 troll armories, one straight buff and a battle build. I can run anything other than elites as battle troll and keep up or top most dps’s while still running full troll artifacts cuz they buff me too. I’m not sure why everyone wants to spend more money shifting the meta or why buffing literally every role including themselves is a bad thing. We buff vit, dom, resto, all sorts of other stats than might or prec. I’m not rushing to level my cog but I’ll get around to it. For now, if running him in elite, we either exclude prec or let them know they’ll have to run their own claw unless they want my PayPal address. No issues.

That's why all those things I listed give the group some sort form of a damage buff, which is what trolls already do.