Controller Power Revamp

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by The Dark4, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. Controller Devoted Player

    For 1 - The Controller role is NOT, however - new to Detective Comics Universe Online (DCUO). It has been a part of this fun game for 11 or so years.

    Not to be rude but who CARES about OTHER games, here? We're not Final Fantasy 10 (or whatever number they're on now, lol)


    Aside from my Bro-mance on Sir Auron and how mighty he was in that classic, this IS DCUO - not FF or "any other game"....

    It makes PERFECT sense (to ME, at least) for a Green Lantern to be a POWER (among other things)...


    Controlling the battle field...stunning....using "Grasping Hands".....Light rays....

    The Green Lantern RING is one of the most POWERFUL weapons in ALL of Comics - right up there with Stormbreaker, the Ten Rings, etc, ONLY BY the IMAGINATION of the wielder.

    I mean - ask Lantern Ch'p about how powerful a Green Lantern ring is:


    Mental...(Magneto - and his CONTROL of anything METAL).....Gadgets (Cyborg, Iron Man).....I can EASILY see those characters controlling a battle field, raid....AND providing power, among other things.

    Again - we're NOT Final Fantasy (or any other game out there without a "Controller" role).

    As I've said in ANOTHER thread on here and will say it again - SHAME on the Devs for the subtle changes to the role AND listening to the few inexperienced players who claimed that Controllers "Only Give Power" and they wanted to do something else.

    Go DPS, Tank or Heal rather than calling for UNNECESSARY changes to the Controller role - especially based off of inexperienced claims.

    In this case the Devs listened to a SMALL minority of players of which "I" wasn't a part of and never will be.

    For number 2 - not sure who trained YOU as a Controller, but when "I" was trained in this game to be a Controller it was by another experienced Hard Light Player and he taught me the OTHER aspects of Controlling, such as Group Shields...Personal Shields (for survivability).....STUNS.....and WHEN to debuff and WHICH POWERS to use for it.

    As long as I can remember, good and experienced Controllers did ALL of those things and didn't complain about being "A battery Only".....sounds like the Devs took a few inexperienced Controllers whining and saw an opportunity to monetize the Role, which I hope I'm wrong about.

    But let's be real - it DOES seem like The gradual Monetization of the Controller role HAS happened - with us having to level up ADDITIONAL BUFF arts to please DPS.

    For 3 - Even with my conversation with Proxy a few weeks ago he / she didn't mention that there was a majority of players playing the Controller role that complained about being batteries only. I've personally seen a few threads over the years but I've NEVER EVER seen a GROUNDSWELL of support for complaints about Controllers being batteries only.

    And I've read these forums DAILY since about 2014.

    Not sure which threads you're talking about.
  2. Controller Devoted Player

    But - essentially - Artifact Swapping IS making use of MORE THAN 3 SLOTS.....let's call a spade a spade.

    You're essentially piggy-backing the EFFECTS of NUMEROUS arts during a raid.

    For all that - I'll try popping in Tank and Healer artifacts so I can Power Tank and Power Heal...................

    Who needs to bother the Devs for MORE SLOTS when you can ask Darkseid to not zap you with his Omega Beam while you swap artifacts?

    I'm being dramatic here, admittedly - but I see no difference.
  3. Controller Devoted Player

    And there are MORE and MORE players ASKING for Buff Controllers.

    I can honestly see one day soon where I'll have to use my Claw, Tetra AND Cog just to accommodate Might / Prec Dps raids.

    Where will I, as a Controller - place my Rao?
  4. Controller Devoted Player

    It changed because I personally believe that a SMALL number of Day 1 players who had the Devs ear - maybe testers, I don't know - called themselves speaking for the ENTIRE Controller Community instead of bringing it to the Forums for SERIOUS conversation....and I mean SERIOUS - with a DEV present.

    If they did THIS - FAIRLY - then we'd not be here with these threads popping up.

    DPS would be responsible for their OWN damage....Controllers would be more, you know....Controllers.

    The hilarious thing is that some of these players speaking for an entire community have probably since moved on to OTHER games - having pushed / cried for - changes to a role that they had no vested interest in.
  5. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Might be based on comics but it is still an MMO. You asked why it changed so much and I gave you an answer. The troll role IS a mash up of abilities tat are normally given to other roles in other games. It’s logical to compare it to other games because it’s an MMO. If you wanted to compare it exclusively to comics than there wouldn’t be any roles at all and everyone would be forced to be hybrid since in dc comics no one uses exclusively powers. I’m MMOs there’s something that is called the holy trinity. That is a triple role battle set up. A damage dealer role, a tank role, and a healer role. It is what has worked in MMOs. Dcuo did something different and introduced a 4th role. However there is nothing that was needed for a 4th role because the trinity pretty much took care of everything. So the new 4th role was given aspects of other roles. This is why I brought up other games. For logical reason.

    You may not like other games being brought up but it’s the truth.

    And you keep saying they listen to the minority inexperienced. That is not true at all. A lot of players were talking about not wanting to be batteries. In fact I’d wager that more people hated being walking batteries than those that just wanted to give power. Leave your bias aside and talk about the facts surrounding the role.

    For your second point. Who trained me? I was a good troll so your assumptions are dead wrong. You keep making claims that those who disagree are were just inexperienced. That is extremely arrogant of you. Just because you like being a battery doesn’t mean the majority did too. Troll role has never been difficult. Even back when you had to do the double tick when activating your PoT. Make claims about stunning all the adds all you want. That’s not the actual truth. Trolls would focus on mainly power. Even back when 2 trolls were asked. 1 troll did pot and debuffs while the other did power dump. And the stuns were there because debuffs stunned. Debuffs were also always supposed to be up. Damage and defense debuff should have always been up before and up now. The only debuff that could be left out was the healer debuff if there was no healing mechanics. So make false claims all you want.
    • Like x 1
  6. Controller Devoted Player

    For 1 - For ME, when DCUO stops being DCUO then we can start comparing it to other games.

    There is simply no other IP out there like it.

    If the Devs introduced The Controller role to this game then - at the time - they meant it to be as important as the OTHER 3 roles, tank, healer and Dps.

    I'd guess that they STILL DO value the role as important as any other role and not just batteries.

    Four Roles. No one better than the other and each one working IN TANDEM with the other - not piggy-backing OFF OF one another like the Buff Troll has been transformed into.

    For 2 - You'll have to show me proof of this...links to other threads....I remember some threads coming up but they weren't long threads and there was never, IIRC - a "50 Likes" Poster asking for Controllers to NOT be just batteries.

    Prove me wrong and it will open my eyes to something I haven't seen in the forums.

    There is no bias with me - whom am I biased against? You're creating a straw man, here.

    Am I biased for speaking my mind and - "Not going along with the crowd?" I thought that was Free Thought.......

    I've already stated on here that I "AM" adjusting to being a Buff Controller, by getting a Claw to 200 and am working on my Tetra and eventually a Cog.

    This doesn't mean I will "Shut up and Take it", either.....especially when DPS number 4-5 in most raids, elite included...and already have 3 DPS arts in their inventories and have now conscripted Controllers to help them with damage.

    Gee - do DPS want Tea with their crumpets, too? I'd wager that the 5th DPS has time for some, lol.


    Jokes aside "Buff Controlling" IS a NEW THING - getting more prevalent over the last year or so even with regular raids to boost damage (or hide POOR DPS)..................

    For 3 - To simply say that Controllers are batteries - even IF you are an experienced one - is simply not right and is simply not stating ALL WE DO. Please don't twist this like I'm calling YOU out because I'm not.

    One can be experienced and not like the role. I've ran into players like that in the game, too. Doesn't mean that you should speak for everyone else just because YOU may not like the role.

    Controllers are simply not "Just Batteries" - whether you're the best Controller in the game or not, plain and simple. They help with stuns, group shields and debuffs.

    If they were "Just Batteries", then why THIS

    Granted - the game HAS gone through SOME changes but the majority of that thread by "The Dark" is still relevant.

    I'm not certain that The Dark is the same player as the OP of this thread but a search on Controller tips brought me to that thread, among other things.

    Finally - isn't there a LOADING screen in the game that states what a Controller does? It certainly does NOT list that we're only batteries.

    Not EVERYONE is a scoreboard chaser.
  7. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    I’m not comparing dcuo just for giggles. It’s to show how the troll role came to be. Thought that was obvious. You’re making it seem like the role just came out of no where. It’s literally the combined points of other roles. When game was first introduced they didn’t even have the troll role. Heck I think they only had 1 or 2 roles which was then expanded to 4 roles. I’m not comparing some random aspects of this game to another. I’m comparing roles which to try and explain and answer your own question. Not my fault you don’t like the answer. And when exactly did I say the troll role is not as important? I’ve made many points saying how it’s ideal to have a troll for alerts too.

    You want proof go make a pole somewhere if trolls want to go back to how the role used to be years ago.

    And yes you are biased. You tried to downplay how many players didn’t like being batteries. You tried to imply that the devs listened to the minority making claims that only a few wanted to not be batteries. You made claims that those who didn’t like how trolls played were in experienced. Even in you last post you made a claim that people are scoreboard chasing. You have made a lot of claims based on what you prefer.

    And when did I say you couldn’t have an opinion? Heck I didn’t even tell you what I preferred. You just made assumptions. There is a difference between saying you prefer something and not like something else compared to saying those who do not like it are inexperienced as you claimed. You even tried making indirect claims that I wasn’t taught properly. Again, biased based on your preference.

    If they weren’t just batteries than why did 2 troll sets made to have one troll debuff and do pot while the other focused on power dumps. I also never said that’s ALL they did. You again made that false claim. I said that was their primary focus. To give as much power as they could while doing lesser tasks throughout.
    • Like x 1
  8. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    The only thing that needs to be changed is to reverse the changes in tetra and cog. Adding a double bonus to Prec and Might as a Troll was the worst change to Artifacts, this change killed those Artifacts for DPS, and killed half of the troll's profile Artifacts at the same time.
    • Like x 2
  9. zNot Loyal Player

    Yes please!
    • Like x 1
  10. zNot Loyal Player

    Fully agreed,if people are allowed to use 4-5 DPS per raid then one of them should be buffing not the support roll like troller! Support rolls should do their job not boost dps of the already 4-5 dps in the group ,this change would be hugeee especially it would open up so many trollers door to enter elite content right now if u arent buff trolling almost no one will invite you,please devss listen to this advice!
    • Like x 1
  11. zNot Loyal Player

    I fully agree with you there too. Combine what you said that with what i wrote above to Rejchadar and we could have a massive improvment for the game.

    The other 2 large issues would be gadgets/eog,if the devs really wanna improve the game then they need to fix these 3 things the feedback on this thread should help for sure. I can see many many players returning once the devs fix these.
  12. Controller Devoted Player

    I realize that there are SOME instances where - in ELITE content - you MAY have only 3 DPS.

    3 DPS, 2 Tanks, 2 Heals and a Controller.

    The "DPS LEAN" is not as pronounced in these instances. I understand that.

    The NEED for a Claw, Tetra OR Cog is more evident in these instances. I get that, too.

    But aren't 3 artifacts for DPS enough? Why are Controllers (and even Healers at times) being made to use arts that benefit DPS?

    I'd still love to see AT LEAST SOME of the suggestions I posted on page 3 in the future for this game....SOMETHING to improve the balance. Not expecting ALL...just SOMETHING.

    Could even be something I didn't think about, which is possible.

    Just because we ALL must DPS at one point or another - such as completing dailies - doesn't mean we ALL should HAVE to DPS even in instances.
  13. Toshknight Loyal Player

    that makes sense
  14. Toshknight Loyal Player

    maybe, in normal mode, i could see that working, but shouldn't be in elite, but, it's interesting concept, i usually don't side with making something easier, unless its really broke, so a fix is needed, but, a CC for a "second chance without losing the attempt", maybe 1nce a run. or battle..
  15. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    It’s odd that you put certain ways of helping your group in a “that’s ok” box and other ways of helping your group in a “not ok” box. I’ll shield you and give you power but I’ll be damned if I give you more damage!!! Why not be more open minded and be in a position to help your group in a multitude of ways? Don’t you and the rest of the players in your groups share the same goal, that is, beating the instance? Does helping them with more damage not serve your goal of beating the instance as well?? When I’m tanking an instance where nothing hits that hard, I put the tetra and refractor in (if it’s not already being used by another) to help the damage. Why would I run three primary tank arts when my health almost never dips below 90% and my shields almost never break? Sometimes it’s unnecessary overkill. That also goes for controller arts like parasites power harness, bop commlink, etc. They’re unecessary and barely helpful most of the time. So why not help the group in other ways where you can afford to?

    It’s perfectly understandable if you have a preference in playstyle and build. But you seem to be making your points based on playstyles being right or wrong.
    • Like x 2
  16. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Yoda says: a broken record this one is!
    • Like x 1
  17. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Here’s the thing. Everything support roles do is in the service of damage. With the exception of a few oddities like the Minotaur fight (which I love and wish there were more of) boss fights are beaten only when the amount of damage done surpasses the amount of health the bosses have. Healers and tanks exist to keep the dps alive as well as keep each other and trolls alive so that they may continue supporting and keeping the DPS alive. Controllers existed (pre buff troll meta) to keep the dps powered, alive via shields and crowd control and maximizing the impact of their damage via defense and healing debuffs. Obviously they perform those same services for healers and tanks as well as providing additional help to keep tanks alive via a damage debuff, but only so that they can continue to support the DPS as well as support each others effort to support the dps as stated above.

    Obviously there’s a synergistic relationship between all roles where everybody depends on each other. But ultimately all endeavors flow to the singular goal of doing more damage to the boss than he/she has health. All the shields, heals, power heals, stuns, debuffs, pickups, pulls, taunts, and mechanics execution in the world all mean nothing if 100M in damage isn’t done to a boss with 100M in health. With the exception of feat runs for feats that don’t require the completion of the boss fight, doing more damage to the boss than he/she/it has health is absolutely the groups goal. Period.
    • Like x 2
  18. Controller Devoted Player

    At the end of the day, though - does it seem FAIR that DPS have THREE DPS arts...can swap them out (at least for now)....and NOW can piggyback off of up to THREE MORE effects for artifacts from a Controller?

    I appreciated the way you're trying to spin this and you get my Dr. Phil Award but still................


    But seriously to ME having Controllers FURTHER DPS's goals for more damage via ARTIFACTS that benefit THEM directly is a bit much for me and I'll never personally accept it.

    Doesn't mean I won't try to accommodate DPS in ANY content and doesn't mean I won't slot my 200 Claw AND get my tetra to 200 and level up a Cog but I won't have sunshine coming out of my skull when I do it, lol.

    How about BUFFING Controller-Specific Arts so that those 4-5 DPS will have to think:

    "Let's addition to the RAO amulet we'd better let the Controller slot "__________" artifact or "__________" artifact as well....because the EFFECTS of those CONTROLLER-SPECIFIC artifacts FAR OUTWEIGH our desire for more Pew Pew Pew....

    When / If that day comes I'll let out a HUGE sigh of relief.


    After all - we're ALL trying to reach that SAME GOAL, right? Defeating that boss. I just strongly believe that Controllers can and should have more leeway to achieve that goal the way THEY / WE see fit.

    And I also believe I should be able to carry that mindset without being called "Arrogant or Biased"..........;)
  19. Controller Devoted Player

    Additionally - If I'm shielding you and giving you power isn't that ALLOWING you as a DPS to STAY ALIVE and the POWER is giving you the ABILITY to execute that loadout?
  20. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Assuming you're being sarcastic by saying it seems fair, who exactly is it unfair to? Once again, SAME TEAM. The DPS's goals should be your goals, do enough damage to kill the boss(es) before it/they kill the group. This is like if a wide receiver complained that quarterbacks get credit for passing yards when they run after the catch. Who cares, it's all in an effort to get the W.

    I'm all for new artifacts that enhance controller abilities and/or raid mechanics that make traditional controller abilities more necessary. I'll be hip hip hurraying right along with you. Hell, when grimbors chains was getting ready to come out with Wonderverse (I think?) I was thinking there were gonna be adds that ran around like crazy, dropping or ignoring tank agro and killing everybody or something like that. I was stoked to level that art up for such a scenario. But there was nothing like that and thus the Chains were useless.

    But in the interest of playing the cards that we're currently dealt (which are better than the ones we were previously dealt prior to buffing), the best way to help my groups succeed in ADDITION to giving PoT, debuffs, shields, pickups, doing mechanics and timely stuns is to increase the rate at which the boss that MY ENTIRE GROUP is trying to beat succumbs to defeat aka increase the damage.
    • Like x 1