Congratulations On Nerfing TOTDe into the ground.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Luke©, Oct 28, 2021.

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  1. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    One of may favorite sayings is"no matter what speed one typically drives on the freeway, be it 65, 92 or something in between, everybody driving slower is seen as a grandpa and everybody faster is a maniac." It not only highlights human nature's habit of mistaking subjectivity for objectivity but illustrates the judgments that follow suit. It's so widely applicable.

    Several comments from the devs around the release and first month or so of Flashpoint and FFe made it seem like they had every hope and intention of the FFe difficulty tier system working well enough to warrant continued improvement, tweaking, etc so that it could and would be a standard mainstay in all normal DLC's going forward.

    The first attempt was wonky and buggy at first and though it eventually got in the ballpark (at least for a first attempt) a lot of people held on to their initial impressions or didn't judge it with consideration to it being a first attempt and something to learn from and build off of. Now we have Save the Universe which is a very non-traditional DLC where that system probably couldn't and definitely shouldn't have been implemented. Between those two factors, it's understandable why a lot of people continue to feel and express frustration at the whole difficulty issue as if no progress has been made towards a solution. But I really think the difficulty slider/tier system can and will be a great solution that pleases most players to one degree or another. I just hope people are patient enough to give the devs a few DLC's to get it right(ish). After all, practice makes perfect. :)
    • Like x 7
  2. AV Loyal Player

    Plus some testers (I can't/won't speak for everyone) are kinda fed up worn out. It's not Beta, so we don't get to keep whatever we earn while testing or use our actual characters so it feels like waste of time doing anything we don't really want to, we don't get paid for what's very much work (and we don't get any ig benefits), and the act of testing actively spoils new content for us. Yeah it's kinda neat to see how things progress in development but it's literally an investment on the tester's part with no return and which actively undercuts our capacity to enjoy the game on live since we already know/see stuff we shouldn't. Just to maintain the motivation for testing forces us to stick to test work that actively interests us... which is why I'm usually balls deep in power testing and tend to ignore content, since I can at least bring that knowledge to live more gainfully and that way I get to see content for the first time with the rest of the community. Iunno maybe some enjoy having foreknowledge of mechanics but to me it feels like an unfair advantage outside of special cases where testing feels like a cool privilege. I would prefer the beta approach, which would allow the entire community to participate regardless of platform, but I'm guessing maybe there are console licensing issues for the number of build uploads that'd require or other such complications.

    The way test happens here is a really good way to burn out / piss off the game's most hardcore & otherwise devoted players. That said, when the devs are in the same instance with us and it's more direct communication it does feel a bit better and it's more fun... but it's still work.

    Edit: Also, and it's not a shot at the devs, but we all know there are deadlines to meet so we kinda have to accept that any feedback may not be able to be actioned upon in time for release sometimes and that the devs can ultimately do whatever they want with their content anyways. Testing is a pretty crummy feeling all around. I'm sure the devs appreciate whatever feedback they get but I can't imagine its super fun for them either when there's neither carrot nor stick (aside from expressly/politely asking specific people outright) to get people to test or to test well/thoroughly/objectively.

    Edit 2: I also appreciate that there was a ton of turnover with the company and I'm super appreciative of the dev professionalism lately. This isn't a "woe is me, the devs are dicks" whine post, I just wanted to convey how testing feels to an end-user who's otherwise extremely passionate about the game.

    Edit 3: Also, testing takes place during that time period between content on live where there are cool/fun/valuable events happening on Live and/or players would normally have some downtime between content to play some other games while just logging in for some chill dailies. Eg. ObsidianChill missed out on pretty much the entirety of the last 10x LPVE Progress event because of test server work. It's not just the amount of time testing takes, it's when that time gets spent. Creates a pseudo-perpetual DCUO environment that's not natural relative to a normal MMO playtime flow.
    • Like x 3
  3. Tiffany6223 Loyal Player

    Entrepreneurial opportunity!
  4. August Moon Well-Known Player

    When you say " harder content " what exactly are you looking for ? because turning a boss into a brick wall with more health does not make the content harder, it just makes it longer. the trend for the last elite raids have been tanks breaking their literal backs while dps pew pew , less thought more button press. trolls may occasioanlly have a button to press , other than that their role has been nothing but to buff dps to get pass content faster, healers literally have 3 healing moves and 3 supercharges for eog because thats all they need. the only role thats actually having a tough time adjusting to the "testing" a few of you put in is the tank. and thats only because the damage scale seems to fluctate between multiple boss that hit like pillows to one boss that hits like a freight train. And that set up has literally not changed since fgse
    • Like x 1
  5. Harlequin Devoted Player

    Would you be ok with this version of content if it included only cosmetics and zero point feats, no gear or SP to be gained at all? If so, I'm all for it. If not, you want more than the difficulty.
    • Like x 3
  6. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Honestly would not mind if we could (while the new dlc comes out in December and the anniversary comes out in January, giving the community a lengthy distraction ) everyone on the forums can just have a discussion with the devs joining in on what needs to be done , looked at and what can be done and looked at going from topic to topic. Because we tried that on discord and the dominating questions had very little to do with in game mechanics and more towards styles.
    • Like x 1
  7. zNot Loyal Player

    I agree there but bosses also need to hit hard in elite raids considering how strong tanks and healers are,healers are so powerfull that you dont even need a second one and as you say even 3 supercharge so not even a proper heal focused loadout and still no issues healing. Just look how well ice does in SM capacle of tanking shots from bosses that are CR 400 or etc

    What elite raids are missing is mechanics and a diffierent design,a design where pew pew is not needed.

    Also we need equal difficulty for elite raids,Meta using groups shouldnt be allowed to skip/bypass mechanics where other groups have to deal with the mechanics but the Meta groups dont because they burn through the boss so quickly and therefor bypass mechanics and difficulty.
  8. August Moon Well-Known Player

    At this point we could probably make a raid mechanic designer post and see what the community cooks up collectively
  9. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    what I listed in green is were your problem lies. you know what they say about opinions right!
    • Like x 1
  10. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    Human nature being what it is, this would just result in more or less the same problem as the current Test Server, although it "might" get a little more participation due to the larger PS playerbase (which is a gamble...but maybe one worth considering).
  11. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    I understand that bosses need to be able to actually do damage, but having them do 300k-400k with basic non-skull weapon attacks is a bit unnecessary in my opinion.

    As far as mechanics go I've said a few times that I love the set up of halls of hades where we had to explore through the raid to get special items in order to complete it while being hunted by the boss. Those mini quests or objective gave diversity to the raid depending on which items you got & which ones you skipped (while some where mandatory). They could even take it a step further and allow us to recruit certain npc's for the final fight that would for player advantage and for those that want more difficulty you could recruit one that puts the group at a disadvantage too lol.

    To modernize it just make it so each special item requires a specific task beyond one person hit a specific add or boss.
    • Like x 1
  12. TeflontheIcon Well-Known Player

    Now I ask you Proxystar or anyone else willing to quote this response, how can myself or Luke or any other tester for that matter try to balance or tune elite or any endgame content when the above is what we are dealing with each time? -Obsidian chill.
    1- Test without using swapping.
    2- Play with the idea that there are different playstyles and systems used.
    3- If possible, play with people other than your normal group...if possible.
    3- Give feedback more often as opposed to a summary.
    4- Think of play on live. Ie. Non meta arts, non precision DPS, traditional/nontraditional tanking, regular troll not buff, etc. Not everyone can pay for or want to be a meta role but are geared, smart enough, etc to complete it without.
    5-Remember that EVERYONE has something to add... You just have to listen to them.
    I can go on with more specifics but you do good work Chill, just remember how we were a decade ago... Not how we are now.
  13. TeflontheIcon Well-Known Player

    Without wadding thru this thread more, I agree if someone said that there should be an INCENTIVE for testers that can be worn in game/Live. This would encourage more to test, reward those for testing, and if nothing else give them something to show off meaning they have to run with others on live to do so. Again, Kudos to those testers. The process will undoubtedly get better after this.
    • Like x 1
  14. zNot Loyal Player

    Obsidianchill did something similar some months ago where he collected the requests and send it to a dev not sure if it had any impact.
  15. zNot Loyal Player

    Are you referring to Inner sanctum Elite STU first boss? Cause dam that was fun having a boss being capable of 1 shoting you if you dont block his last combo attack i really liked it,but it really depends on the bossfight itself avoiding big hits/blocking them should be considered skill in the case of Inner sanctum the room was small so kiting wasnt really possible and thats good! and i think there needs to be more mechanics against the Tank specificly often times its just a tank and spank with not much difference to regular.

    We also need to consider that people usually always want a solo tank to do everything and want things to be scaled down to that scenario a solo tank which im against imo elite raids should more often need 2 tanks with this more difflculty can also be justified on the tanks. If you know one tank will only have 1 boss on him and nothing else to worry about no adds etc then that boss should hit hard therefor, ares for example he was hitting hard i wasnt surprised to see that they nerfed it but it was tankable u just needed the stats for ares.

    And yea i like that idea of going into a raid and having different versions of it i think this is really nice for longevity aswell plus difficulty if done correctly.
  16. Hunted2468 Well-Known Player

    Its not that simple unfortunately. You'd likely end up with Test Servers flooded with people who are only there for the "reward" rather than there to help. That also means it could get to a point where genuine intentioned testers cant get on. At that stage someone could say "ok so the reward only goes to those logged on test for X hours and who give correct feedback". This would also be a disaster as anyone can just keep themselves logged in, and sneaky groups would just share what the correct feedback is. Remember how certain Leagues shared the old money glitches? That, every test server. Plus who gets to decide what the "correct" feedback is anyway?

    I get where the idea comes from and its not necessarily "bad", it just wouldn't work.

    Bottom line is this: If an instance was apparently "perfected" on test but needs to be adjusted on live, it was never "perfected" to begin with. The failure in this thread is not how testers performed on test, its how some are terrified of admitting this is more of an Ego thing than a gameplay issue.
    • Like x 1
  17. zNot Loyal Player

    Its also important to have the Elite content on Test for 4 weeks,2 weeks is often times way too short.
    • Like x 2
  18. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    He was one example & yes a tank can kite for life or do trial by counter that can add to your survivablity along with your stats. However, I personally can't consider a boss doing stupid amounts of damage (with basic attacks) to be "mechanical". Going that route in my opinion only further encourages super excel methods for dpses. Arguably, the only mechanic is for it is (a) dpses pew pew to take pressure off a tank or (B) dpses pew pew so he doesn't rng smash the healers since you can't agro him in his shield phase.

    Is it doable yes, but can be more unnecessary & annoying than it has to be.
  19. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    I like this one.
  20. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    Prevents gatekeeping. I love it. But they will scream.
    • Like x 1
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