Clinging by a Thin String

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by StillDeathern, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Plowed In Loyal Player

    I'm with you on Atomic, it was built that way and can excel at it. Seeing a great battle-tank/heal/troll is really a thing to admire.

    And referencing another thread, in my opinion, incorrectly, in this thread...that's a "come on, man!" moment...smh :)
  2. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Thats is not a bad request on itself, but knowing the mentality of the population of this pew pew Universe Online, only the solo troll and healer will be the ones doing the mechanics, which are usually hitting some cogs and consoles.... yay...., so much fun.... while the 5 DPS´s will be just mindlessly doing their rotations without blinking one eye for the mechanics.

    Battle Support on itself is something fun to mess with, like crafting your own build (gear, mods, SP allocation) that will allow you to fulfill the role you signed for, but at the same time put some extra damage, just because its fun and doable if you know what you are doing, i really don´t know whats the big deal about it for some people....
  3. light FX Steadfast Player

    You're probably right. He said "im battle trolling" tho. My entire point again is many people who attempt it are not very good at it. Out of all the players who try it only a small % do it well. But im speaking about my experience of course.
    • Like x 1
  4. Derio 15000 Post Club

    I repeat the only thing group members benefit is Pot. Insta power does not supply enough power for 1 healer ability
    • Like x 1
  5. Derio 15000 Post Club

    The troll is only to blame if he mixed dps gear and lowered his pot value
  6. Controller Devoted Player

    I have to agree with the OP - as far as The Controller role.

    I've honestly given this revamp several weeks of play to let it set in and while I "GENERALLY" believe it is a GOOD thing there needs to be MORE attention given to Controllers.

    My Vitality was slashed from over 9300 base to just over 7300 now. While I get the premise behind it in more than half the runs I do I am struggling to keep the group powered.

    I consider myself a capable Controller.

    While I believe that the general population understands the changes with the Revamp I truly believe that DCUO will scare off some players wanting to Control as a Role with this revamp.

    I get that there are SOME players that needlessly spam their powers - making it more of a challenge to keep them powered. But guess what - in such cases more than likely it will be viewed as the Controller's fault.

    Once Statsmatter went live, mostly EVERYTHING was Dual-Role as far as raids. Even the Alerts had a Controller. But once more players learned the revamp MANY of them went back to Solo Trolls for their raids - making for some VERY challenging instances for the role.

    Too challenging.

    I "KNOW" that I know what I'm doing as a Controller. I've proven this over the years. But when I HAVE TO rely on Supply Drops and soders religiously to keep the group powered we simply CANNOT blame this solely on a few player's spamming of powers.

    I will continue to Soldier on in my role as a Hardlight Controller.

    [IMG]

    I love the power AND the role.

    But I will welcome ANY GU's, changes - etc - that can keep me from struggling as much as I do with this power Post-revamp.
    • Like x 3
  7. StillDeathern Dedicated Player

    I tried battle trolling most of my playing time this weekend.

    To battle troll, I used all my DPS gear, and just manually swapped role to TROLL stance, for maximum potential damage in support stance. My load out was primarily held the same as my DPS load out, I did add insta power to my load out for group content, invisibility gave me the opportunity to still have a group shield supper charge, which came in handy a time or two.

    Solo missions - I found that all solo content was supper easy, almost AM era like, my stuns worked, with the added benefit of dps like damage.

    Duo's - The ones I played were also very easy. No issue powering group.

    Alerts - These got a little harder, but with super charge, supply drops, colas, very doable, even at T8.

    Raids -- I was a little scared to try this one. I did help a BBS group finish their run in battle support stance. There was another troll present but he was the least geared of the group by a lot. I blindly que'd into instance, knowing I could swap to normal troll if need be. We had a mechanic wipe, then was able to complete the instance.

    I also tried OLYE, solo troll in battle stance, surprisingly I didn't struggle as much as I thought I would, but the run still failed, even though I swapped to normal troll during the run. While power was not a complaint, I believe the battle tank (I assume) was unable to maintain agro. With the group struggling, I didn't want to cause additional stress playing around so I swapped to more traditional troll, which still didn't help.

    Overall Impression - Its not really trolling IMHO, Its playing damage role in support stance, which can be quit effective in select content. It certainly makes solo content much easier than even DPS stance with the added benefit of the stuns and burn. In battle stance, I am a glass cannon troll, I died a few more times than I normally would. Part of this was on me just trying to push through the content as fast as possible.

    In one particular T8 alert, one DPS immediately stated "OH this is going to take forever..." because we had two support roles, myself and a heal. I gave him a run for his money on damage the majority of the run even beating him at times, I must admit he got me at the very end. Had this particular group not got separated from each other in the instance (again I was pushing ahead very fast), I may have beaten him.

    The raids will always be easier in true support stance, but the temptation to be able to battle troll through these, just to prove I can to myself, is pretty strong.
    • Like x 1
  8. StillDeathern Dedicated Player


    I can say mental is far better at battle trolling than I thought it would be. The Invisibility aspect of it give access to an assortment of options, so you can carry a group shield, robot sidekick, normal shield, and various other super charges and damage options in that second bar...
  9. Multiverse 15000 Post Club


    In solo and duos you pretty much always could stun CC enemies even in DPS role...... and you have the damage of the DPS. ;)

    Here is an example.... this was before GU73..... but it still works the same after GU73 as far as I can tell;
  10. iLoveDCUO Well-Known Player

    I hear what you're talking about. But people can get better, I didn't feel it was ever really difficult. Others can get better if they practice, maybe pug runs aren't the best for trying it though. Maybe with friends or league. Who knows. I did it in pug groups all the time and hardly ever got blamed for anything. I do see your point though.
  11. StillDeathern Dedicated Player


    What if a battle troll is putting out almost as much damage as that DPS though? Does that mean the DPS isn't playing DPS?!?!

    I think some may be trying to adjust the way they play. They see the AUTO-PILOT POT, low tick from insta-power, and determine that if they aren't going to be able to blue bar heal, no matter what they do, the next best option is to max out damage.

    In the end, I always judge the success of a run by if we are able to beat the content or not.
  12. Multiverse 15000 Post Club

    Depends on the CR.
    If a 200CR Troll does more DPS then a 50CR DPS.... that is pretty much expected.

    And if they have the same CR??
    Depends on what happened.
    Was the DPS knocked out and missed most of the Boss fight??

    A DPS is still a DPS. But a poor one if he barely does any damage.

    As for the Troll....
    When you play as a Troll...... then next best option is not really to max out damage.
    It would be to....
    Debuff enemies...
    or to CC mobs.....
    or Buffing the group.
    or Shielding the group with a Group Shield.

    If all that is done... then sure.... do a bit of extra damage.
    But as a rule of thumb.... doing damage should be the last thing a Troll worries about.

    But sure..... at the end of the day.... all that really matters is if the group can complete the mission.
    If the group complete the mission.... s'all good man. ;) ;)
  13. StillDeathern Dedicated Player


    I think this used to be true, but I'm not sure it applies anymore. With AUTO-PILOT POT, and weak as #$% insta-power, blue bar healing isn't what it used to be.

    Buffs/Debuffs, sure should be in any and every trolls load out, preferably with some form of SC/Group Shield

    This leaves a lone, single gaming option for all trolls to focus on...damage.

    Since the best way to increase damage in troll stance is to play battle support...

    Well you get the picture.
  14. Multiverse 15000 Post Club


    Again.... there is more to Trolls then blue bar healing.
    And yes... the blue bar healing is as weak as a kitten right now..... but still needs to be done.

    And you want the Troll to focus on doing extra damage??
    The Group Power Heal does give an attack Buff to players..... so..... why not focus on keeping that up if damage is that important??

    Debuffs is more then just having them in your Loadout..... again...
    focus on keeping the Debuffs up on the Bosses?? Keeping the Defense debuff up. Keeping the Attack Debuff up.

    And maybe CC the mobs??

    And maybe Shield the group??

    There is plenty of things to do before even thinking about doing damage.

    The best way to play a Troll.... is to actually play a Troll. ;)
    And the best way to play a Troll..... you don't play as a Battle Troll.... you play as a Troll. ;) ;)
    • Like x 2
  15. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I could see battle trolling as a thing in two situations:

    1. AutoPoT stacking. Why? Because then you could have a couple of trolls and the pot would do most of the work powerwise. Still, would most groups invite 2 battle trolls who do half the power work and mix it with higher dps, or would most take 1 troll and 1 full dps? Not saying which is right or wrong, just knowing the community.

    2. DPS used power-friendly rotations. (Pause for comedic effect) Yeah, not gonna happen anytime soon, apparently.
    • Like x 1
  16. light FX Steadfast Player

    I judge it by how the run went. Content in this game is too easy to be judged on completion. I cant even remember the last time i was in a piece of content in this game and didnt finish it. Ive literally never seen a battle troll put out as much dmg as a dps either. Because i very rarely run into a battle support player who does it well. If we normally finish so and so raid in 20 mins but it took 60 mins this time? Well kind of a crappy run imo. Took 3x as long. If we normally have 3-5 deaths and have 20? Then either the group was reckless or the healer/healers werent very good. If we were trying to do a feat we had previously done but couldnt do it this time its not a big deal at all but it means the group most likely isnt as good. If we normally beat the content with this group setup but gotta switch it around cause a a few arent doing very well then it usually means they probably arent ready for that content for whatever reason.

    All of that comes into play because performance does count and like i said content in this game is too easy. Because in raid content almost every group has all 4 roles and those roles are there to perform certain duties. If they are below average or far below average and u still complete the content? Well guess what? That person or people just got carried. If a player determines they cant blue bar heal for whatever reason then they shouldnt be trolling. Its that simple. Ive solo trolled since the revamp and only had an issue once. It was because the healer was spamming like a crazy person even when the group had full health. I finally spoke up almost 2/3 through the raid and the person toned it down. I prefer 2 trolls but the normal content can be solo trolled if ya run with people who know how to play.

    Plus this specific person had no mods at all and was not hitting recharge at all. Looked up his sp on wavedox and yep 103. If thats me i dont go into raid groups trying to solo troll. If i respond to a LFG shout and get in group and im the only troll im going to speak up and say "u should probably get another troll." Or if im the last person in the group id say "i cant solo troll this so ill drop and u guys can find someone who can." Its called knowing your limitations and putting your ego aside. ;)

    Im sure u or others may disagree with all of this. Cool. Its just my opinion anyways. Not everyone will share it. Just because anyone feels blue bar healing is weaker then before isnt an excuse to simply not do it when you're the troll in a group. Healing is not as strong as it was before the revamp. Are healers saying screw it and not healing? Look at what u posted above about your OLYe run. Battle tank couldnt hold aggro. This is what usually happens when people play battle support. And notice i said usually. I say this because in the past some have taken that to mean all of the time. Not many people do the battle support thing well. And players should only be doing it if they 100% know they can pull it off.

    More groups simply need to start running 2 trolls. As a league we have been doing it more and more and i prefer it. No power issues at all and runs go very smooth. But in the pug/lfg world most dont wanna do it. Shows me people struggle to adapt and are stubborn while letting their ego get in the way. Yes the controller role needs some work. But seeing people say recharge needs a buff cause i cant keep groups powered anymore is ridiculous imo. Because is the group spamming or managing their power? Is the person trolling not as good as they think they are? That all comes into play. If ya havent noticed 80% of dcuo players think they are the best player on the server :oops:

    I know plenty of players who know if the group only has 1 troll they cant use their power hungry rotation. Devs stated right off the bat and throughout testing for the revamp that power management was going to be a skill all players need to learn. If someone cant solo troll a raid its either they arent a very good troll or the group cant manage power. So either run with better players or get better if ya wanna solo troll. Or run 2 trolls.
  17. StillDeathern Dedicated Player


    I don't know that I totally agree with you.

    If content and the group make up insists that I have to normal troll, I will. However, if I am able to supply the group with sufficient power, debuff, shield when I need to, and can battle troll my way through the instance, well that is what I am going to do.

    I have been running more and more battle troll, and to be honest, it is working far better than I anticipated. For example, last night I ran one alert battle troll, it went smooth, no wipes, and the group was able to complete the instance in just over 13 minutes. Not bad for a pug group. I was second in damage in that run, but I was curious just how much more power I would put out in an alert in regular troll stance... was I holding the group back running this way, or was it actually better?

    The next alert, to compare speed and efficiency, I ran normal troll. You'll be happy to know I dumped more than twice as much power to the group, which started off with two DPS, a healer and myself in troll stance, same as the first alert... as we progressed, we wiped. One DPS swapped to tank, we were on a boss fight, so then we had three support roles and one DPS. Even with the tank, the group wiped again. Keep in mind we have all the roles, with a somewhat weak DPS (192 CR I believe). Despite the luxury of power, we were having trouble. I stayed in normal troll stance the remainder of the run.

    In total, normal trolling with more than twice the power, the second alert took about 10 minutes longer. My damage was not even close to the first alert run, I didn't expect it to be, but the group suddenly didn't get good either, despite having more power than a battle troll stance would have provided in the same instance.

    Raiding, may be a completely different experience, I have not fully committed to trying battle trolling a full run yet, primarily because I would rather run that way with players I know rather than a pug group. I want to try it, but certainly not going to do it if I think the group will fail. I have had a couple of instances where I wanted to, but either joined the fight in progress, or the instance I was in, simply wouldn't permit it due to group makeup.

    Of note, I am a highly experienced troll, I've been doing all the things you state I should be doing for years, when I am supposed to be doing them. Players new to the role, should probably concentrate on performing the duties of the role first. I think we can both agree with that.

    Until I find the point where it proves undo-able, I plan to continue to test the boundaries of what I can do battle trolling, and what I have to do in a more traditional troll stance.
  18. Multiverse 15000 Post Club


    You have to agree with me. You have no choice in the matter. ;) ;)

    But seriously......
    At the end of the day..... play the way you like to play.

    You like playing as a Battle Troll??? then do so.

    You like playing as a Classic Troll??? then do so.

    Heck you want to play as a Crowd Control Troll with only CC powers and NO Debuffs.... NO Group Power Heal..... NO group shield.... well it's your character....d o that if you want to.

    Technically..... play any way yo want.... it's your character.

    The only problem with playing how you want comes when you play with other players.
    Other players will have certain expectation if you play as a Troll..... especially in end game.

    Personally.... not crazy about Battle Role. But people can play as they like.

    But at the end of the day..... your character.... you pay your subscription...... you play as you like. ;)
  19. StillDeathern Dedicated Player


    Must...resist... :)
    • Like x 1
  20. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    the main reason its hard to find trolls right now is the same reason its always hard to find a role when a new power comes out everyone is switiching to healer to get the gear ready for water there is always a shortage of (name role here ) when something new is here