Celestial lacks melee combo Devs?

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by DarkAya, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    I've decided to try this power out and after hours of frustrations of pure range attacks

    I found what I was looking for - a 'melee combo'.

    By 'melee combo' I mean combo that should interrupt my opponents range attack.

    How surprised I was when I realized that it doesn't work that way with Celestial. :mad:

    These are the combo powers I'm talking about:

    [IMG]

    I thought when it says [Tap Melee, Hold Melee], it means it's pure melee, but the only melee thing here is the range of this power, not combat mechanic.

    Tunso, Spord, WHY?! Why I get lunged using melee combo, it makes no sense I think it should work like other melee combo powers:

    Rage - (Outrage, Revenge...)

    Light - (Chainsaw, Boxing Glove, Light Claws...)

    Atomic - (Atom Splitter, Thermochemical Explosion)


    Is there any way to change it? It's not fair in my opinion.

    Some powers are so called 'block-breakers', why melee power can't break 'range' attacks then?
    • Like x 1
  2. Tilz Loyal Player

    Actually.. those combos work for midrange also.. and a lunge from midrange?.. ^^
    • Like x 1
  3. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Because all AM damage from celestial is interruptable. And notice the tooltip does not say vulnerable to block so it does not act as a lunge. This fix was to address the problems celestial was facing in pvp for being considered overpowered.

    If you are looking for a melee combo power to interrupt enemies using ranged. You are using the wrong powerset.
  4. Raijin1999 Loyal Player

    I was looping these two abilities in a test yesterday. Nice CC effect there, with the push from one and pull from other. They are mid range abilities, though, and half of each combo is a ranged attack. Because of that, it could be difficult to balance out their counter systems, as it would require a BB on the ranged blasts, and block vulnerability on the player centric AOEs. If they are all uniform to range attack mechanics, it at least makes it easier to sequence vulnerabilities.

    Maybe something can be done where they take on melee counter properties if the AOEs are initiated first, giving the follow up mid-range blasts the ability to interrupt. I know players want to have the precision end of the attack bound to the AOE portion, but this would be enough of a balance compromise for PVP purposes, I think.
  5. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    If thats the problem then why did they release new power that can do both, block-break and lunge at MIDRANGE! Has anyone tested Atomic in pvp yet? Doesn't make any sense to me. Even if all combo powers would be balanced, celestial will be behind. I don't ask for midrange lunge (it's dumb imo) but why not at short range.
  6. undrline Issue Tracker Volunteer

    Rifle? Dual Pistols? They can "lunge" from range.
  7. Tilz Loyal Player

    true.. forget about them^^
    but yea, derio is right.
  8. Absolix Loyal Player

    Honestly with how big of an AoE cWotP has it is better to be vulnerable to interrupt than vulnerable to block. It is too easy to get yourself countered when there are several potential blockers available as opposed to someone having to specifically target and lunge you. The only time vulnerable to block might be better is if you are trhe tank, but since neither of Celestial's roles are tank it wouldn't benefit from it.

    Nothing about the vulnerabilities really makes it so Celestial could fall behind other powers. HL is vulnerable all the time, Muni and Fire are vulnerable all the time.

    Also keep in mind, there is no short range to make a lunge. Everything in Celestial now hits from at least mid-range.

    Keep in mind that those are both single target, and the hit for multiple ticks that make them rather easy to block.

    Also, keep in mind that powers can't work exactly like weapons. They are functionally different, and when a power starts to become as practical as a weapon for counters you get something like HL in PvP right now, which still holds the spot of most OP powerset.
    • Like x 3
  9. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    I see but my point is, If even melee oriented Rage can have a single useful range combo then why celestial can't have at least one melee. They're not gonna change HL or Rage combos like removing vulnerability etc. more like reducing dmg out for PVP.
    I feel disappointed because If I want to interrupt range attack with celestial I need to use weapon and lose AM benefit while Rage, HL, Atomic - not necessarily. They can switch from melee to range during a single rotation, adapt to situation and keep AM benefit.
  10. Tilz Loyal Player

    I see...
    If you talk about PvP:
    Don't spam AM there... i mean.. its cheap. I can easily defeat rage AM spam, by not using my AM as Cele. Also HL is easy to counter (we all know this one OP-rotation...;)).

    If you talk about PvE:
    Yea that's life, but other powersets have the same problem (*cough*ice*cough*).
    Then you have to stop and pay attention to the mechanics (block or lunge or pick up, whatever). Even DPS is not about mindless spam^^

    Absolix is 100% right. And also... cele combos don't work like Rage/HL/Atomic.
  11. Pults Loyal Player

    Rage and atomic are tank powers and their combos supplement their tanking mechanics.
    HL is an odd child that can combo both melee and range combos within a single cast - it's not balanced and all thechanged done it it don't make it any better.
    Celestial is a healer power that has multi input combos that either give off burst heals or HoTs - translate that to damage role and you have burst hits and DoTs.Healers are always in a safe range, meaning celestial was and will be a range power, in the recent balancing Tunso stated that the mechanics will not change - it will still have vulnerability to interruption.
    Whilst all of these powers are combo based they all work in a different way again with HL being the odd one.
  12. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Because celestial is a midrange power and both of those moves have a wide radius. If it worked the way you wanted if just 1 enemy block you would get countered. For both healing and dpsing that would be bad.

    You can't compare atomic to Celestial. Atomic combo are different from atomic thus reason for the mechanic.

    Atomic system is mostly like rage.
  13. veneficus OP truncus Committed Player

    they fixed celestial.. it does not have a damage bug anymore.. they let the ice keep the elemental bug but fixed a weaker power to make it hit less hard... hilarious dcuo.. just hilarious
  14. DulcesS Well-Known Player

    At least now block breaks. Long ago it was vulnerable to being blocked after chaining more powers and combos; but it didn't interrupt. Also didn't get any damage buff for chaining. It was just a vulnerable to blocks power. Similar to Wonder Woman's Lasso on Legends PvP.
  15. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    Yea there are differences but one thing remains, in order to do increased damage you have to do at least one combo that does crappy damage. Light requires 4 secs of combos chain, Rage needs 1 combo to get savage state, atomic 1 combo clipped to get aura and Celestial that multi-input but it's range always range, gotta complain cause it's bad. Sure Might powers can't lunge but even as Ice, if u get interrupted you could have already done some damage, with celestial you can get interrupted again and again and again cause it's range range range and every rolling stone on the floor and insects fart interrupts range Celestial. No matter how buffed it feels so helpless. :(
  16. DarkThorn Dedicated Player

    I'm beginning to feel this powerset isn't for you. @Pults explained it fairly clearly above that 'roles' impact how the DPS side behaves, and as Celestial is a HEALER role, it is intended to be more about staying at range than melee. They're not going to change mechanics and power behavior simply because you switch roles. Funny about all your complaining because the majority of Celestial players have no problems using this power effectively, so clearly it isn't a power mechanic problem, it is a L2P issue.
  17. Remander Steadfast Player

    So, let me make sure I'm understanding you here, as folks seem to be answering you differently. Are you wanting Celestial to have an AM combo that will lunge, so you can interrupt from range?
  18. DarkAya Dedicated Player

    Some 'vulnerable to błock', yes, the one in OP would be good, I'm not saying lunging-jumping like Outrage, just short range (7m), for melee fight, to interrupt range attacks like other combo powers can, look at atomic combos - you can lunge at midrange WTH?. Some say it would be bad for Healing, so what? Healers can't melee with combo like Atomic tank?

    I know many people who used to be celestial but couldn't stand its 'vulnerability to get interrupted' and switched to rage, ice atomic and other fotms. I'm not asking for revamping power, simple checkbox.
    Making one combo working like melee attack, vulnerable to błock thats all.
  19. Tilz Loyal Player

    yea.. healers can'T melee like Atomic Tanks ... obviously.^^
    A leaguemate has a celestial char (his main) and is doing really really fine at every range. He also has a atomic char (tank and dps) and is complaining/cursing quite often about being blocked by adds from midrange/melee. It all has its pros and cons. I prefer the current state. I don't have issues at every range in content
  20. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    It's not behind.

    Well, I'll go into the history.

    Blight cAdmonish, Consume Soul cWrath of the Presence, Wrath of the Presence cConsume Soul.
    They used to be pure melee, however, over the last two passes, they were modified to being Midranged combos.

    As to combat counters:
    They are all vulnerable to interrupt after the multi input combo.
    The melee/midrange combos are vulnerable to block.
    The range combos are vulnerable to lunge.

    You are not forced to range range range. You should learn to clip and cycle Blockbreaks between your buffs and clip might casts between your combo casts.

    Smite is a blockbreak
    Corrupted Smite is a blockbreak
    Cleansed Consume Soul is a blockbreak/pull
    Cleansed Plague is an interrupt
    Cleansed Malediction is a blockbreak

    I can go on but there you go. Go crazy.
    Learn the powerset before you complain.
    • Like x 2