Celestial DPS is way OP

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Infinity, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. Infinity New Player

    I am a 150+ SP CR 100 HL DPS that has been running the T5 raids since shortly after they came out. After running a ton of raids with league mates and friends, I know generally where players will be on the scorecard. Since the release of Celestial, players that could not out DPS me have been able to do so using the new power set. Players that were roughly equal or slightly better now dominate using Celestial. And they are using virtually no power. In any content below the T5 raids, it is still possible to out DPS Celestial, but only because everything dies so fast its just about who gets there first.

    The only reason I have not gone Celestial is because it seems very likely that a nerf is going to come down. I have not seen many threads to this effect, in fact there are threads on the forum about Celestial DPS being weak! So what do you guys think, should all that want to be competitive DPS go Celestial, or is there a nerf due?
    • Like x 10
  2. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    lol here we go, but I never would have thought it would be a hl person complaining
    • Like x 40
  3. Meta Flare New Player

  4. Brice Allen Loyal Player

    Of course it is OP. It was just released:p.
    Expect nerfs/changes in about 4-6 weeks.
    • Like x 9
  5. Lights Derp Loyal Player

    Hmmm wasn't expecting the nerf threads to start for another week. I'm honestly surprised bit this will open the flood gates because thats how these forums work.

    Sigh.
    • Like x 6
  6. Red Hood Well-Known Player

    Being on par with gadgets and HL, does not make it OP. Please don't make misleading threads like this.
    To answer your question though it may have some changes coming soon to bring up some of it's and bring them inline with nature.
    • Like x 5
  7. Zpirit Dedicated Player

    How do you know it is " OP "? It could be that none of the other powers clicked for those people, could be you aren't as good as you think, and could even be you just plain suck. Had you ever thought of that? Or do you think you should come on the forums crying about something you have not tested, shown video proof of this powers so called OP-ness, or even so much as provided a picture of the score cards.

    Please don't come here crying nerf with no evidence that one is needed or might be needed. The last thing this game needs is more nerfs, it's already easymode.

    P.s. Have a great day!
    • Like x 13
  8. Eminence Dedicated Player

    A good gadg and hl can still outdamage a good celestial. Just easier to do top damage with celestial.
    • Like x 3
  9. Infinity New Player


    What evidence would you like? I didn't even ask for a nerf. I'm talking about players that are regarded as the top DPS on Villain side. I'm not the best, but I know exactly who are the few that can beat me. When players that couldn't beat me as HL, Gadgets, or Quantum start suddenly out DPS'ing me, I notice. And if you think I suck... well, pm Infinity Complex and we'll run something.
    • Like x 2
  10. Infinity New Player


    The thing is, in the T5 raids where things take time to kill, it will come out on top. In T5 alerts, duos, or anything lower tier, it is easily possible to out DPS Celestial.
    • Like x 1
  11. Infinity New Player


    Exactly my point. This always happens with new power sets. Electric was OP at one point! I don't want to switch and learn a new power just to change back when the nerf hits in a few weeks. Waste of 2000 SC.
    • Like x 1
  12. Alpha vermelho Committed Player

    Celestial have a good dps but is slow, and this is very important.
    For what i see comunity is tired, and many times angry of nerfs.
    Celestial in dc comics is most powerfull power, is standart if devs do right way make him similar to universe that game hapens, or turn powers only with differents effects and name.
  13. Zpirit Dedicated Player

    Can you not read? I clearly listed TWO (video or photographic evidence) ways you could try to validate your absurd claim.
  14. Infinity New Player


    Sorry I wasn't collecting snapshots of scorecards before Celestial dropped in case I needed to prove it was OP. Judging by the info you have posted about your toons, I doubt you even complete the raids regularly. So how would you even know what I'm talking about?

    You seem very confrontational to me. The claim is not absurd. If I could name players as examples I would. You're asking me if I can read when you can't comprehend my post well enough to see that I didn't even ask for a nerf? I was just hoping to get some insight from the community or possibly the devs on when/how bad the nerf is going to be.

    Using snapshots or video in this situation is not even realistic. I would need snapshots showing player x as quantum vs me as HL, player y as HL vs me as HL, player z as Gadgets vs me as HL, and then players x,y, and z as Celestial vs me as HL. It is unreasonable to expect me to have had the foresight to start collecting snapshots of scorecards prior to the release of Celestial.
    • Like x 3
  15. ACW37162 Loyal Player

    PC or PS3 player?

    It makes a huge difference on some of the cancels.

    I don't think it's OP, the one thing so far that might "might" be on the radar is the defile jump cancel power combo and that is a big maybe. You have to be a keyboard player to pull it off and it can still be tricky.

    Not trolling but the people who don't usually beat me on the scorecard beat me is a thin argument.

    Not to mention the whole, I don't want switch if they nerf it tells me your a score board chaser. If you a beast HL DPS then what do you care about celestial, ahhhh right the score card.
    • Like x 4
  16. Zpred Dedicated Player

    Your putting the HL community to shame..... Shhh lol.

    Seriously though, are you getting out dps by these people in all content or just the T5 raids? If its just the T5 raids then your post is invalid.

    That's like saying HL Is over powered because I out dpsed a fire dps in a duo or alert, it's ridiculous, different powers shine differently in different instances.


    Yet again another qq score chaser starts the Nerf/OP bandwagon just because they got out dpsed in PVE in a certain instance..... I wish PVP was this competitive lol.... These people :D
    • Like x 10
  17. compasionate grenade Committed Player

    What hl combos did u use? Maybe a slight tweak to put u back on top.
  18. Zpirit Dedicated Player

    Then show some kind of evidence, otherwise you have no reason other than your probable lack of skill to cry " OP ". You need to stop crying, suck it up and get better. Btw my sig is outdated seeing as i am barely on the forums lately. You may not have been " asking for a nerf directly, but crying " OP " would most likely force the hammer down upon us anyway as it usually does. The fact that this powerset is so slow, and power hungry makes up for the damage it does, maybe your not clipping fast enough.

    P.s. Before you go around assuming things about how often people play, how about you post your own stats for everyone else to see?
  19. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    People may hate me for saying this but here is my honest opinion. it gets wordy. TL DL of it is basically the top DPS isn't OP. The Mid level DPS isn't OP. it's the fact that it does Mid level DPS with low level power costs. Note this is from a guy who likes math so be ready for numbers :D We've broken down rotations for HL/Ice/Mental/Celestial and compared them best we can. I say we because it's not just me but the whole community(too many individuals to name but they know who they are) doing the math on these things. That's what these comparisons are based on.

    Retribution spam is solid DPS and low power. This dominates the loadout. It's the bread and butter for any raiding Celestial. The damage to power ratio is great and the DPS is solid. For Top level stats it's sitting at ~1900 dps alone. This is on par with a lower cost rotation of most powersets. Basically this power alone is better efficient damage than anything but maybe nature can do. it alone sits at like a 16:1 dam:power ratio.

    From there though there aren't many things that beat it. So it's become the core of the loadout. PcDL beats it in single target but only useable 3/12s. so you still need to fill 9s. AcB beats it, but it's a pretty close range requirement, same with CScWP. You could rotate those with a single retribution for increased damage... but you'd need to be pretty close to the enemy and those 2s combos it's hard to maintain that distance so you have a lot of whiffs.

    Now it's not just retribution on it's own that's putting up the numbers. it's the buffs we have as well, and the little things we can add on top. Buff with benediction that retribution goes from 1900 to 2100, however it takes time and in the end the rotation ends up at about 2000 when you buff with malediction only. Top that off though with a power clipped with Dark pact and you can bump this rotation up to the 2100+ range.

    Now here comes the issue. When you maximize Celestial DPS as far as I know right now you work in Defile jump cancels. Doing this you're looking at 2400DPS but at a power cost of 400+/s. That's hefty damage, but a huge power drain... pretty much on par with the K007 combo for HL though.

    So yes Celestial can do more damage with less power than anyone, nature or mental would probably be it's best competator. It basically does mid range power cost Damage but at a low power cost. When you bump to the high level where you have 2 2k+ vit trollers powering you and you're all poping soders and supply drops it's not overpowered.

    So you make changes to Retribution you either make Celestial incapable of matching the top DPS by lowering damage, or make it cost more power making it impossible to do that top dmage and removing any efficient combos celestial really has.

    Thing is I don't know how to tweak it to make it all balance out perfectly. I only really have one "easy" idea.

    They could Increase the power cost on Retribution to like 350. This would push their low power rotation up to mid power costs where it fits in damage wise. Then change Wither's Aura to tick on the target as well as those around it. Lower the damage a little bit and there you have a decent replacement for retribution in lower power situations.

    If the testing is accurate Retribution it at ~24 avg base might damage and 2.55 with 2 ticks of 1.27 for the attack%. Wither sits at 32 might, and 2.1 + aura that does AE ticks of .48. If wither hit the target as well it's DPS would match Retribution. So if they were to do this and increase Retribution's damage I'd say drop the Ticks on wither to .39 attack% each.

    This would have the DPS sitting at Retribution 1900, Wither 1700. With RET rotations costing ~200+ power/s. which is still on the low side for the damage it does, BUT when you factor in interrupted combos and that means 0 combo damage for the same power cost... I think it would all balance out.
    • Like x 4
  20. ElectricPhoton New Player

    ♪…Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, Nerfing all the way…♪
    • Like x 1
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