Buff controllers against healers

Discussion in 'Battle of the Legends (PvP)' started by Lumb, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Phantasy2013 Dedicated Player

    A three in one debuff power that increase debuffs against Healers.Decrease in damage,defense and healing is the three in one debuff I speak of.
  2. Sumeric New Player

    I'd like to know which supercharges you are referring to as well. My healer is electric and my supercharge is invigorate. It will free me from control effects (I can cast it immediately upon being knocked down i.e. Braniac's little push-back move in prime before he summons healing drones) but it does not remove or negate a debuff in any way.

    In pvp, if I cast invigorate while debuffed the amount of healing i get from it and the subsequent safety-net heal are severely reduced. So if i'm debuffed and really need to cast it, I'll try to wait out my trinket by farming immunity from the opponent until I can cleanse and cast it properly.
  3. Humane Committed Player

    I just started pvp with my healer main to get the sp from it and from what I have seen so far, all in 1vs1 lair battles (I want to get used to pvp so I won't be a burden to a group), I have gotten my backside handed to me from a few controllers that knew what they were doing, but have also destroyed some other trollers similarly equiped as my toon.
    What it comes down to is personal skill. If you are very good and know what to do, you can overcome any bonus the other role has over you. Of course I haven't played alot of pvp, but that is my opinion.
    • Like x 1
  4. Tesseract Prime Dedicated Player

    In 1v1, controllers get the very short end of the stick.

    We get no real advantage over dps - it is unlikely a fight will go on long enough for pot to have an influence, let alone one big enough to cancel out 35% damage modifier.

    Against tanks we get slightly better damage and NOTHING else. No shields, no debuffs, no pot.

    Against healers, we get a damage buff. But they can still heal.

    Do tanks get anything against healers? This is why it rankles for us. 1 v 1, they are still healers. Controllers are not controllers against tanks. Tanks are not tanks against healers. Why are healers still healers against controllers?

    That was rhetorical. I know the answer is because otherwise, arenas would not work.

    But it sure is annoying 1v1.

    It's annoying to be so easily decimated by the other classes, and to have to work so hard for our own victories.

    That's even just talking about gentlemen's duel rules. Heaven forbid you fight 1v1 in an arena. Debuff, high damage combo, bunker buster and an orbital strike - but hey, he's sorcery so he just pops transcendence.

    Kroye - you say controllers were stupid for trying to fight a gorilla. Don't you see how wrong that is? Why should we ever have to fear a healer supercharge? What controller supercharge do tanks fear? What tank supercharge do healers fear?

    Can controllers kill healers? Sure. It's easier in dps gear (but then you're not really a controller). It's faster in a duel. But with all the home turf and colas and serums, it takes WAY too long 1v1, and in an objective map, that can be the difference between winning and losing.
    • Like x 3
  5. Heavens Sword Dedicated Player

    I was under the impression it cleansed you at least from normal controller debuffs, def, healing, damage, maybe not the rps debuff but those.
  6. Lucaefor New Player

    It reduces the amount of healing they get but it doesn't remove the ability to heal. Confidence is also random not assured.

    If you define healing as how much damage you can sustain you realise that damage mitigation is just another form of healing.

    So controllers are the only role that cannot heal (via any method) and this is why they are getting smashed in PvP, particularly if the opponent has a gear advantage.

    For the system to be "balanced" the damage output of the controller should be in line with the healing abilities of tanks & healers.

    Personally I am not in favour of role superiority eg tank vs controller, healer vs tank etc. Roles should work uniquely but have an equal chance of killing other roles, to promote fairness in terms of player skill.
  7. Worlok New Player

    trolls should be able to debuff a healers healing in by 100% and healing out by 50% a healers only ability to heal themselves should be from soders.

    healers should fear controllers. if a healer and troller are similar in gear, sp, and skill, the troll should be able to decimate the healer.
  8. Phil Miller Committed Player

    I completely agree. I am a healer and I know when I go up against a good troll I am going to melt like a stick of butter. To me it all about knowing your debuffs and when to cast them. When a troll debuffs me I have to dump my power bar just to try and stay alive. Cutting my resto in half seems like thats enough. What more do people want? Automatic wins?
    • Like x 4
  9. Phil Miller Committed Player

    This is the worst idea ever! If you reduce my healing 100% then why have a healer? Cutting my resto in half isnt enough? Horrible idea.
    • Like x 3
  10. LadyLightning Issue Tracker Volunteer

    Just a thought:
    Healing from supply drop, breakout regeneration and healing barrels scales with restoration.
    Does the troller debuff work to reduce that too? If not we might have found the solution, because that would be a bug...

    Can someone please test this?
  11. MDay New Player

    Devs please nerf healers, tanks, and controllers we want you to ruin this game even more! controllers are OVERPOWERED please do something about it they keep debuffing my healer and why fire tanks have self heals???? NERF THAT or you know whats even better?? just completely remove it and controlls ability to debuff pleassee!!
    • Like x 2
  12. phen0mena Committed Player

    A supercharge is like an 'ultimate' from other games. It's the most powerful stuff.
    Everyone should respect every powersets' supercharge.

    If I'm fighting a tank on my healer, I respect supercharges like Eternal Flame. It makes a fire tank invulnerable to all damage; each hit heals them, even debuffed, even everything. It's a 100% supercharge Godmode for 20 seconds. Nothing stops it.

    It's also unlikely a fire tank could use it more than twice in a lair fight, so it's as it is. It's one of their ultimate powers. I don't hold that against them.

    Same for the healing block ice goes into, or the ball thing for earth.

    Yes. Sodas etc heal less when you are debuffed. It all scales off restoration. Controllers halve a healers restoration.

    So those saying 'they drink sodas' etc are not properly informed either, as a side-note.
    When debuffed, a soda doesn't heal well.

    You can heal the same way ice tanks are breaking their roles; home turf mods. Healing scales with dominance as well as restoration (for this note, my tank has a HIGHER healing multiplier than my healer, as it has both decent dom and resto, tanks are probably too powerful, my healer really only gets resto). So if you are a controller powerset with lots of shields, the breakout regen, shield regen, etc will all heal you and help you greatly.

    This is why ice is the FOTM (and also shows me these complaints are ill-informed. What right is there to complain when you don't know this?);

    They have shields, can heal off said shields with home turf mods, and this CANNOT be debuffed like fire. A healer vs fire, removes their heals, but not an ice tank with shields. The devs allowed removing the shields as is role, but the home turf healing on their cast is untouchable.

    Home turf breaks so much, and so many just aren't cluing into this.
    Take the back CC mod with a controller, and when a tank pounds on you, you can then CC them to high hell too, if you say you aren't a 'controller' vs tanks...

    Foot note, tanks using all the home turf stuff right etc are just the same for a healer facing them as a controller facing healers using them. They are not fair.
    • Like x 1
  13. Phil Miller Committed Player

    I recommend removing health and toughness stats, debuffing everyone and everything, and having everyone melee with no weapons equipped. That sounds like what people are asking for.
  14. Sumeric New Player

    Nope, healers can't cleanse themselves without a trinket or serum. The 50% supercharges only temporarily negate crowd control effects like stuns, knockbacks, and because it has no damage component, it can be used after being countered.

    Debuffs stick to healers harder than you think...lol
  15. Sumeric New Player

    Controllers have 35% supercharges that heal them equal to the amount of their combined dominance and restoration, which I would recommend for any situation where you don't have a healer fighting along side you. Its not as much as a healer can heal, but it is an option and you aren't a healer.

    If you're mental, you have access to a convalesce (self heal), reflect pain, telekenetic shield, and grandeur. All of which mitigate damage upon being cast and tk shield takes advantage of regenerative shielding.

    If you're gadgets, you have access to anesthetic (self heal), distract, neural neutralizer, and energy shield. Of those, the first three mitigate damage upon being cast, energy shield is kind of weak in my opinion because it only kicks in (when you can rely on it actually doing so) when your health is below 35%, but it does also take advantage of regenerative shielding.

    I'm not really sure all of what light has at its disposal, but they do have triage (self heal), and a shield that takes advantage of regenerative shielding and reflects some damage back at the attacker and can be used to pop up instantly from a knock down.

    Controllers, except maybe hard light, have plenty of tools at their disposal to increase survivability in a 1v1 situation. If someone isn't using them and just playing 'pretend-dps', its their own fault.

    Edit: I cant even begin to count how many gadget controllers I've seen throw bunker buster at me. They'd have been better served with a self-heal supercharge for those times when the fight is really close.
    • Like x 2
  16. Tumbling Pin New Player

    Hard Light does have a 35% Heal supercharge. It works differently than Mental/Gadgets/Quantum's 35% in that it is an instant burst heal, which can get up to 1800~2000 range with a defensive spec.

    HL is better off as DPS though, since its defense debuff is high risk low reward. Gadgets is also better off going full-on offensive with uninterrupted Photons. Mental is the best for a power battery, debuffing, defensive troll spec, because it has great AOE debuffs, instant heal + shield from TK Shield, and a very OP power in Reflect Pain which requires no offensive points.

    While I believe Healers currently get the easiest matchups when it comes to the Rock-Paper-Scissors system, I strongly recommend against giving Trollers any huge buff against them like taking away all their healing. Some of the worst changes to PvP were done with good intentions in mind, and I don't even dare to imagine how game-breaking some of the changes suggested here would be.

    The safest, most effective change I can think of is to make the amount of healing reduced scale off of dominance, so a fully DPS-specced, full DPS gear troller would not reduce healing nearly as much as a true Controller can. On the other hand, a Controller who gives up the ability to do massive amounts of damage directly would be more effective in reducing a Healer's healing.
    • Like x 2
  17. Worlok New Player

    well, you know how a tank debuffs a trolls power regen by 100% and every role is immune to their control effects at the press of a button? well, control effects are half of our class while power is the other half. if we can't power or control, why be a controller?

    you aren't supposed to be able to heal. that's the point. a tank can't tank against a healer. a troller can't troll against a tank. a healer shouldn't be able to heal against a troller. simple as that. you are just selfish and want your class on top.

    if you disagree with me, then you think tanks shouldn't be able to debuff a controller completely and nobody should have a trinket or anything else making them immune to control effects from powers.

    maybe you think controllers cc powers should ignore control immunity items? sounds good to me.
  18. master shunglao New Player

    Healers are Godmode . im a troller and I totally understand
  19. master shunglao New Player

    I think he said hard time, not cant beat .
  20. Anti Bezz New Player

    Anti Bezz
    If any healer wants the D let me know