Bring weapons back to DCUO!!

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Fatal Star, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Telos Usr Dedicated Player


    You cant agree that the only possible way, that the only even 1% certainty that Wep could outdamage Pftt is if the adds and bosses stood still and let themselves KO? Really?

    If thats your stance I apologise but we've nothing left to discuss. You cant talk to someone about common sense and then come out with lunacy. Thats not meant as an insult, its just you talk like you're championing balance and then causing the imbalance with that kind of viewpoint. You cant possibly have a WE alt. Theres no chance of it if you see things like that.

    Let me give you an metaphor that actually works instead of that feint about tickling bosses. Bosses who still block btw;

    You're a boss with 2 people working for you. One is doing great, hitting targets and exceeding expectations, the other is struggling a lot.

    -Your solution is to either just be happy with the one whos doing well, or slightly maybe possibly kind of help the struggling guy a little bit. But not by much.

    -Ours would be to focus a few months on helping the struggling one out while trusting the other to keep up the good work.

    As I said though this cant be a discussion, you skimmed over my post and instead of reading it and understanding it, saw "WEAPONS COULD DO MORE DAMAGE NOOOOOO", panicked, and posted this. If you want to re-read it you're welcome to, I put Potential in quotations for a reason when talking about Wep Potential, and then actually explained it too.
    • Like x 1
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm going to point out again what I said since you're clearly misinterpreting me, potentially on purpose I feel.

    Hybrid, weapon expert and super powered should all have equal potential

    The moment you skew the game in favor of one over the other you create an imbalance.

    You claim that at present PFtT out performs the others correct?

    Yet you're honestly sitting here with a straight face saying let's make weapons or hybrid more op to the point where it makes people leave PFtT.

    Do you see the hypocrisy in your position yet? You're saying you don't want to play PFtT you want to play hybrid but you want it to be more op than PFtT.

    How is your position any diffrrent than those advocating that PFtT remain the best. It is absolutely no different.

    If you want people to have variety then all options have to be equal then people will play what they want.

    If there is not equality then people will just flock and cookie cutter out the FOTM specialization.
    • Like x 1
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    See my post above also.

    I'm the one asking for balance. You're in here asking for a higher damage potential.

    Why because you seem to think WE is somehow better than PFtT and that doing it makes you better?

    Newsflash it doesn't it just means you like playing a different way.

    All ways should offer the same potential no more no less.

    I'm not knee jerking a "oh no weapons will do more damage" response here at all in fact its the opposite.

    I'm saying weapons need a buff but not to the point they exceed PFtT potential, you meanwhile are trying to ask for a distinct advantage over other players because you somehow see your style as being superior.

    That doesn't lead to a balanced game that just leads to imbalance in the opposite direction and not diversity in terms of play choice.
  4. Telos Usr Dedicated Player


    Jesus lool, we didnt need more proof that you didnt read my post.
    Please, for the sake of this not dipping into cringe-worthy embarrassment, read, my, post.
    Its post number 38. Read it all the way through. Read the words, let them connect. Google "Variables" for referrence.
    If you do, you'll see that your weird fascination with scoreboards and superiority are seriously whacky lol.
    Take a breath, and just, read. Post 38.

    [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  5. CaptainColdJr007AKAFreeJohnson Committed Player

    Which is why it should've been Hybrid but the devs pulled a last minute nerf to regular weapon combos. If Hybrid was the top playstyle, people would flock to it but the majority of the community wouldn't be able to actually do it correctly consistently and would lose damage and prob be better off doing to weapon only or pftt to suit their skill level. The idea of all 3 playstyles being equal isn't something that's going to be accomplished with the current state and priorities of management, and shouldn't be pursued anyway because even if it was reached, there would be clear advantages and disadvantages to each. If each playstyle could parse say 17k on 3 targets, weapons only has the potential to be interrupted. Hybrid has that chance as well as well as the potential to make clipping mistakes. PfttT melee if balanced the same as the others would be the FotM. Even if it was nerfed to account for this, if content doesn't actually counter people a lot, then Hybrid and Weapons will stretch out, with Hybrid showing a favoritism toward scorecard chasing due to faster/selective burst potential from abilities as opposed to waiting to the final hit of a combo. And even if that wasn't the case, then people would still flock to whichever one required less power as it would be more convenient for solo content as well as dps stacking for faster raids. There's always going to be a FotM unless content is clearly designed to support 1 or 2 of the 3 playstyles specifically, and those specialized content are spread out so that no playstyle is losing in every scenario. Balance requires the ability to predict how players will react to changes with accuracy and planning ahead of time to control the adaptation. Keyword: Accuracy. If a FotM is going to exist regardless of what they do, it should at least be whichever has a harder execution which is normally hybrid. AM era had the potential to come close to the difficulty of hybrid with fall cancel'ing and repair bots in the mix like with the quadra gadgets and mental stealth clips. But every form of clipping that sped up gameplay in a meaningful way that allowed for a skill gap in execution between players was taken away because people thought it was cheap when in reality they were just too lazy to actually use everything they could to maximize their dps. Outside of Renown boosters, none of the other clipping devices costed excessive money.
    • Like x 2
  6. Lord Jareth Steadfast Player

    Wait update weapons? means everyone will play the way i play.. wait.. Everyone will play the way i play! NO Stay away this my playstyle WM For the World!!!

    You hear me it's my playstyle!!! :mad:;):D
    • Like x 1
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    I've quoted your relevant posts where you've discussed potential.

    I understand that you feel you're entitled to extra potential because you believe practicalities will eliminate any potential.

    I'm however not convinced that they will and at what point do you feel your balance is achieved. When you can ignore the combat system entirely? Perhaps you should work on your reading and countering of the combat system instead of continuing your combo despite the npc blocking.

    At the end of the day no matter how you do it the potential damage output under all reasonable circumstances should be as close to parity as possible.

    Any argument to the contrary is simply being sought by a person who wants to see their playstyle be made more superior.
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    See this is a much more intellectual argument than what others are putting forth here.

    I agree that hybrid has been done completely wrong unfortunately because of this fact its almost entirely ignored.

    Unfortunately the only way I see to fix it is to try and find a way to sustainably balance it so that its not just a playstyle played by the elite but a viable option available to players of all levels.
    • Like x 1
  9. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    Yea just the realistic at worse scenario
    • Like x 1
  10. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    The only way that can happen is for hybrid to have a higher damage ceiling then PFtT, which is what we're trying to get at. If both were balanced, had the same potential, PFtT would still be the dominant playstyle because it's easier and there's no risk of counters. The skill players would be able to match a PFtT rotation but the lesser skilled would fail miserably.

    It won't become weapon universe online as long as PFtT can at least compete and get people through content. Sorry my response isn't as long and lengthy as captain colds, I hate typing essays on the phone.
    • Like x 2
  11. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Also to reply to this, you're the one grossly misinterpretating what I said. I never said buff weapons so much that people leave PFtT for them. Where you managed to pull that from I'll never know lol.
    • Like x 1
  12. Proxystar #Perception

    My response to you more in particular was to do with your comment about wanting hybrid to be more powerful.

    The problem with making hybrid too powerful is that no one will use PFtT or WE and we're still in exactly the same position.

    You've been here long enough Fatal you know that's true.

    Any statement otherwise couldn't be more disingenuous.
  13. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Yes but what you're getting at here is you think I'm asking for it to blow PFtT away, that's not what I want either, but hybrid should have a slightly higher damage ceiling to account for risk and clipping factor. That's why I said that.
    • Like x 2
  14. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    I 100% agree. The play styles should be better balanced. The damage on longer chain combos is particularly out of line with other aspects of damage. A long combo is like a 300 point power with a long animation - it's risky because you might not get to the payout due to interruption or the target dying, so the result should be more.

    I love my WE toon. I don't have trouble completing content, but it can be difficult to get into a group in LFG. Yes, I often play a non-DPS role and/or form my own group, but it would be nice to have the option.

    The other thing I thought of in terms of a fix, which might be a terrible idea, but I'm sharing anyway, lol, is to add defense to the precision stat for stats purchased with SP. So just like you can get might/power, you could also get precision/defense.This would give a slight cushion for melee, and I guess it just feels fairer for precision to get a joint stat like might has. :D

    Ideally, each play style would have the same potential for damage IN CONTENT. That might not be fully achievable, but there's room to get closer to that goal.
    • Like x 1
  15. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    My only concern is there woul dhave to be a cost... something that costs to make it on par with play from the tray... i didnt read throught he whole thread just your initial post...

    Essentially if weapons as they are now were buffed... would be the ideal way of playing.. trollers would only be there to power up tanks and healers... they are essentially just batteries last time i played their jobs were pretty irrelevant which is sad and should be fixed...

    But if all dps were using weapons and doing the exact same things as play from the tray .. people would pretty much abandoned play from the tray.

    So a cost needs to be added or.. a period of time only that you are doing large amounts of damage to keep up with play from the tray...

    If there was a power on the power bar that took 100% of your power bar... to allow you to do a massive amount of weapon damage in a short amount of time.. that would be ideal.. it would have to have a lengthy cool down though..

    Or hell it could be a super charge that every power has that gives a massive weapon buff... that would be fun...

    And if trollers had an ability to increase peoples super charge faster they would be awesome...

    Just spit balling ideas that can be elaborated on
  16. Punch Drunk Active Player

    So then what since you are asking for changes now its okay?

    Wouldn't adding to the weapons output be the same as adding to the pfft output by adding more might?

    Thought you were against big changes to the game you spent 8 months fighting for during the revamp testing? You don't get to defend whats in place in other threads and then ask for changes in your own. What you are asking for would require more than a little tweaking to change the damage capabilities of all weapons. Sounds like another overhaul of the damage system to me.

    I will however agree that weapons are not really viable when you are comparing against pftt and they probably need tweaking and you know what I would be okay with that as long as they did it correctly and didn't make it so overpowered that it would be the only way to play. You see even I can agree with something. Revamp was to give options and balance. That's all I really want in this game is balance. But I still don't think someone with 300 plus skill points should be on the same level as someone with 200 regardless of the gear being equal and I don't care if anyone thinks that would alienate newer players. Ever since I started this game I was told to get my skill points up since they add stats and quite frankly I don't think the difference in my health would really impact anything since you all pointed out most of my health comes from my gear just like my might does. If its good enough for might then its good enough for health. If adding 100o might to pftt then adjusting all weapons would surely have the same effect on game play.
  17. Proxystar #Perception

    What risk?

    hybrid could allow you to range attack or melee attack.

    Are we talking risk of death here or risk you'll clip too early and miss weapon damage?
    • Like x 1
  18. WesPypes3679 Committed Player

    Or...maybe there is a damage bonus from melee range? More risk more reward. Like Earth and Rage.
    • Like x 1
  19. The Anxient Loyal Player

    Wanting to fix one imbalance by introducing another is not the way to go. What about combo powers that are inherently bad with hybrid would just be at a permanent disadvantage. All 3 focuses should have similar damage potential.
    • Like x 3
  20. velvetsanity Loyal Player

    Risk of being interrupted, risk of losing damage time/combo hits because Johnny Quick is teleporting around the room moving from one target to the next like the pinball on amphetamines that he is, etc etc etc

    Absolute potential under ideal conditions (enemy stands there doing nothing while you beat them down) is not the same as realistic potential (enemy fights back, interrupts, moves, blocks, etc)
    • Like x 1