Bring weapons back to DCUO!!

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Fatal Star, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Telos Usr Dedicated Player


    Yeah..... was I supposed to believe all that?
    Where exactly were you talking about an artifact that "bypasses immunity" in your post that states that you want to see NPCs punished for being countered?
    Thats a complete contradiction, you either want weapons to be buffed by counters, or weapons to be able to bypass immunity, so which one is it this time? Should we just delete post 137 and continue to allow you to make things up?

    Of course I have an agenda here, I wouldnt be here if I didnt. Our agendas appear to be opposites though.
    My agenda is to present an option to buff weapons whilst also leaving them with the current weaknesses so that:
    - if it was Wep vs PFtT on a static, unmoving, unblocking, uncountering sparring target, Wep would be higher
    - Wep vs PFtT in content, Wep cant possibly be that much higher because of the mechanics it needs to follow that PFtT doesnt have to bat an eyelid at, if you don't follow them then you get punished and will end up lower than PFtT.

    You? I dont see how it could possibly be more clear that you're a PFtT player who's afraid of losing their top spot and is doing everything to oppose any idea that might actually work, who then presents a "solution" that when properly thought through wouldn't actually be a benefit, and when opposed yourself has thrown out outrageous accusations and attacks on character to hide the flaws in your suggestions, and who's now continuously backtracking on posts and adding things that just arent there.

    On top of all that, you seem to want us all to play with calculating androids, because when I play theres humans, and humans make mistakes, we're allowed to, so expecting 1-7 people to never, ever, ever accidentally give a boss immunity is ridiculous. Your solution is a one-way ticket to players resenting players because those who cherish the gospel of Scoreboard will keep whining about "Player X" continuously getting block countered and losing out on dmg because of it, creating yet another unneeded divide between those of us with experience and those trying to get better.

    Im sorry, im not and never will be arrogant enough to not admit if im wrong, but I cant possibly agree with you. Theres nothing wrong with wanting balance, its what we ALL want despite your strange accusations, but you're here specifically to shut down any viable options for Weps. You truly are.
    • Like x 1
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    You're clearly enraged now to the point where you can't see the forest for the trees.

    You simply only need to go and read my posts to see me talking about the artifact idea and the NPC punishment idea through countering. Do you need me to do this for you are or you happy to go back and read my posts?

    You just want to water the combat mechanics down to the point where you can ignore them, so you do so much damage with only a portion of your combos so that if you get countered it doesn't matter.

    However it's clearly obvious any continued discussion with you on this topic is pointless.
  3. Telos Usr Dedicated Player


    Oh look, trying to mask the flaws with condescension, again...
    No answers and more change of posts content.
    Bye.
  4. L T Devoted Player

    Thanks. Thought it was just me.
    • Like x 1
  5. L T Devoted Player

    By the way... How are folks testing weapons? What are you all using to clip with?
  6. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I gave an example in the second post. While it's not the best hybrid rotation out there, it outlines and explains the descrepencies pretty clearly when you break it down.
  7. Hatmaster PC New Player

    I wish classic weapon clipping would return. These weapon masteries being the only viable option (to a degree, as they wont feasibly out-pace PFtT) and all of them being channeled just make my dps feel sluggish. So now I'm stuck between slow button presses or mindless ability spam. It's just not fun anymore.

    I honesty don't understand why the classic weapon combos can't be good. Without mastery mechanics, the masteries are disturbingly lacking in "fun" factor. They're just dull time-consumers.
  8. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    That's because during the last week of revamp testing they took damage from normal weapon combos and transferred it to WM combos which royally screwed over hybrid. They should have left it as it was an added a WM buff to weapons expert. Still wouldn't have been perfect but it would have been a lot closer then it is now.
    • Like x 1
  9. L T Devoted Player

    You mean the post you quote yourself talking about flight powers?

    I meant more in general. Are folks using a ranged aoe spammer to clip? Higher cost abilities? Pretty sure all the movement ones are 200 cost. And what about WM combos, none return power and some are more clip friendly than others
  10. Mohican378 Dedicated Player


    If you can do twice as much damage(what is being suggested) with weapons mastery as PFFT just to make up for the fac that you chose a play style that means sometimes the boss moves across the board and you have to chase, you're simply trying to make up for the fac that choosing to play with weapons mastery means having to learn how to deal with a moving boss. which is just a damage double to ignore intended mechanics.

    That's not a fix, that's a crutch. that's a having your cake and eating it too.

    I like Proxy's idea. It doesn't allow weapons mastery to just totally imbalance the playstyle so they can ignore mechanics and rewards them for actually playing TO the mechanics.

    and Proxy and I rarely agree, so there's that.
    • Like x 2
  11. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I like Proxys idea too, but in all seriousness, it's flawed.

    The big kicker in why it won't work, the person who initially counters the bosses gets the counter damage and immunity. Obviously the tank will farm as many counters as possible for survival, you can't tell them to not counter the boss so you can have OP damage, imagine how that would make you look? Unless they increase the counter window to allow multiple people to get counter benefits, it really won't work.

    Either that or just remove counters all together from PvE, which I'm sure many won't agree with.

    If you guys have any more ideas, feel free to share, cause leaving them with equal potential won't work either.
  12. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I'm not sure how others are testing it, I'd use powers that fit how I'm playing. Example, if I'm melee range, I'd use melee powers. If I'm single target, I'd switch to single target powers and weapon combos. That's what I did with my flight test, when I was melee I used high/low pressure and whirlwind attack since those are mid-range to melee and AoE. On single target I swapped whirlwind attack with swoop attack since that's single target.
  13. stärnbock Devoted Player

    did they give an explenation for why they changed weapons in the last minute before revamp?
  14. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Probably because of the complaints about how hybrid was over parsing PFtT, so they did it as a last minute effort for balance, when really it was actually closer to balanced before that.


    Just look in the damage assessment thread I posted, first reply calls out the difference
  15. stärnbock Devoted Player

    well, i tryed hybrid before i went full precission to play WE because i was totally bored of the gameplay and the feeling of PFTT.
    the reason i switched was for example that hybrid needs a lot of power if you want to clipp with fast weapon attacks.
    spending SP's into precission and split between might+power, was not as good as to go might+power first.
    but then, i ended with my powers doing way more dammage than weapon attacks,
    so much that even when clipped, the second needed for my weapons was a waste of time.
    lets say, i use HB solar flame clipped with a power, it did less than i would use two powers instead.
    and only when taking the "super powered" playstyle, i had enough power and regeneration anyways.
    even when modded completely with might precission, weapon attacks were leading to less dps.
    with super powered and might+power mods, the difference is that you don't drain your power bar and get higher numbers.
    so i said screw it and modded all my gear precission.
    if you use only 12 and 18 second powers, the regeneration with weapons is fast enough, so you can ignore power.
    at least to some degree. i realized that my generator mods would need to have power and the shoulders are precission+power.
    with the second artifact, i guess going full precission is getting better.
    if playing hybrid, i see no way to not spend your SP in might+power before precission.
    but then again, you have no advantage with clipping, at least not as long as super powered gets 10% might and PFTT is stronger.
  16. Proxystar #Perception

    What if the damage bonus kicks in simply when an npc is countered so it doesn't have to be you personally.

    It means you're either benefitting from an exceptionally good tank or you're doing it yourself.

    Naturally the code excludes anyone speced as superpowered
  17. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    You know a really easy way (well, I mean conceptually easy, not sure if technically easy) around this whole thing would be to just apply a rule to weapons. If the required dominance isn't met, then the countering mechanisms don't come into play.

    For example, since players can't block break npcs if they don't have the dominance, then bosses or adds that are blocking wouldn't do anything to a player using an attack vulnerable to block.

    That way, tanks would still be able to farm immunity, players get to have fun with the mechanics in pvp and solos, duos, etc., but not worry about enemies who are blocking. That's important because a boss who is blocking is literally unable to be attacked by most weapons, whereas players using pftt just keep on attacking. With this rule, it would be the same for both.

    A side effect is the devs wouldn't need to worry about boosting weapons beyond pftt to account for the blocking mechanism (all players can be interrupted so that didn't enter into the picture anyway). Instead, they would just adjust individual attack damages to bring them in line, based on factors like melee, cone vs. aoe, single target vs. multi, etc. The idea of having to pause to follow a jumping or moving boss is faced by all melee dps (although rage gets to lunge using a power, but that's more a universal balancing issue) so adjusting damage wouldn't have anything to do with whether its weapons or powers, just taking into account the same melee vs. ranged formula they've been using for everything.

    TLDR; if they make it so vulnerable to block combat mechanics are dependent on dom level only, then they only need to bring weapon damage in line with pftt, not boost it higher.
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

    Are you saying remove block effects entirely? I.e you're not going to end on your butt if you keep attacking a blocked npc?
  19. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Exactly. If you don't have the dom for it.

    In other words, if you can't block break them, their block effects don't affect you either.
  20. stärnbock Devoted Player

    no. can you imagine an alert were you can't counter? i don't.
    also we have an artefact that gives a buff for countering targets.
    first player who is countering gets the reward for being the fastest.
    don't worry to much about those imunities. artefacts shouldn't balance.
    they should be a nice addition, but they should never be mandatory.
    i would be happy if super powered would loose the 10% might,
    hybrid should get 10% precission instead of the might bonus,
    while WE should have 10% for WM combos and precision