Dev Discussion Better Membership

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Mepps, Apr 29, 2021.

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  1. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    I already told you I wasn't going to compare credentials, but I guess you really do have a hard time with understanding English. That's ok. I can try typing into Google Translate for you if you want to share your native language with me. Besides that, working in the industry can literally mean your the person who delivers incoming mail to the other employees. The people who would need to know my professional background already do and that is really all that matters.

    :D:D:D I do believe that you are the one projecting here. Stooping to personal attacks is really telling. You already admitted that you want features added instead of membership perks. It's already been stated by several people and the original message's context that adding specific features are not within the scope of the brainstorming. Even if you "lock them behind membership access" it's still adding new code to the game.

    Let's break it down another way. Your car breaks down and your stranded on the side of the road. You and your family are trying to come up with ideas about what you can do to fix the car. Your child says you should put jello in the gas tank.

    Stop being that child asking to put unrelated things into the DCUO car.

    Thinking that DLC is a software feature is your first mistake. A software feature is much smaller than that and is defined as "A distinguishing characteristic of a software item (e.g., performance, portability, or functionality)." Also, just from a general size comparison, you should know that the games DLC is in no way equal to the new weapons, powersets and movement modes you are asking for. DLC is something you play and the others just enhance how you play within the game.

    I'd tell you the story of how I got this nickname, but the story is full of language comprehension and word play that I have established, just above, being beyond your grasp.

    We're actually having a grand time at your expense in game and on discord. Thank you for being the court jester of the thread. In these trying times of a global pandemic, the gift of humor is greatly appreciated.
    • Like x 3
  2. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    Before the release of FP, which became free, I had two ACC with a subscription (it's not so important why someone has two ACC with a subscription (someone plays a whole family, someone else has other reasons ...), after the release there was only one. I will continue to support one ACC at the subscription level ... but only one ... unless something will radically change the subscription itself ...

    Financially, access to the new DLC is 10 bucks ... once every four months ... this will give us 2.5 bucks a month ... adding something to this amount is not difficult (3 open TC per month, or 5 SoPs, or 15,000 XP for artifacts, or something like that) ...
    The problem is different.
    The problem is that DLC is not just some kind of item from the market, it is a set of "Features". Full access to new "Features" is worth a subscription ... a couple of banal items, not of your choice from the market for a couple of bucks, alas, no ... yes, of course, if the additional amount is large enough, in the end it will be more profitable to subscribe than to make separate purchases ... but it's boring ...
  3. CropDusterMan New Player

    As someone who has played this game for years, seen the upside and downs, and been legendary for the majority of it. I think it is great that episodes will now be free to everyone, it makes life easier when trying to get friends to dl the game and play. It is a great addition to the game and has been a long time coming. That being said, as a member, my list of wants is short.
    Shared bank for my money, so I can use it on any character.
    More loyalty points per month, 500 doesn't seem adequate.
    Larger MP discount, paid membership is worth more than 10%.
    As a member earlier stated, Source marks for all content regardless of CR. Make older content worth running for end game players.
    • Like x 1
  4. Proxystar #Perception

    Premium players have those benefits because they've bought those benefits, it's expressly outlined that premium status provides those, what it expressly states as well is that you have access to $3,000 cash and only $3,000 cash.

    You do realise you've actually just reinforced my point.

    I'll also be perfectly honest, I understand that premium players find repairing their gear a frustration, I get it, but at the same time why don't premium players not seem to realise that they're being frustrated on purpose, not by other players, but actually by the developers who are trying to push those players towards a membership through that design.

    If the developers chose to remove that frustration, by marginally increasing the cash cap, that's entirely their preorgative, but at least understand why it's currently there and that by removing it, the devs stand to possibly lose that player as ever subscribing through giving them the comfort they need to continue being premium forever.

    There's also a significant difference between asking for a cash cap increase and asking for complete cash cap removal, there's numerous people in here attempting to use this membership benefit review as an opportunity to try and strip away cash cap access, which is a benefit, there's no logical sense in that when considering the attempt is to make membership better; not make it less appealing.
    • Like x 4
  5. DarkDivinity New Player

    I personally wish that once a month or so that you should get a free feat unlock of something
    • Like x 1
  6. kingmasternova Loyal Player

    Do you real need that must in game cash, and dont use the broker as a reason or trade.
    Also the dev's get more money of the premium players then legendary member.
  7. Miserable Committed Player

    Oh, there's no argument as to what Premium status includes. My argument is about what it should include (which is obviously subjective). I used the word "explicitly" because I meant that they didn't individually select those things. But technically, yes, by spending $5, Premium players bought and received exactly what is advertised in the Premium package. But it's not like the devs carefully selected the quantities of each of these Premium benefits to precisely total $5. The quantities are somewhat arbitrary and reflect what the devs deemed to be reasonable for the Premium tier at the time. The game has changed and I'm arguing that this one particular figure of $3,000 is outdated and ought to be higher.

    I understand the point of intentional frustrations and I'm all for frustrations and restrictions. Premium players should feel like they're missing out. I'm just against this particular frustration simply because of the nature of it. Typical restrictions prevent you from using certain features, accessing certain content, or obtaining certain items. But this case is weird because all it does is make you feel like you have to physically go through hoops to accomplish one of the most basic tasks in the game and it just seems excessive and silly to me. If my belief that the devs intend for Premium to be a viable (although minimal) tier, and not just an infinite trial period, is true (and it may not be), then this particular 10 year-old figure no longer makes sense.

    I agree with your last paragraph.
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    You have to be trolling... words cannot describe how bad your idea is, like I said this is a brainstorm but at the same time I already have access to all my cash for at most $15 a month.

    Why on earth would membership be better under your idea that would require me to spend $10,000,000USD simply to access some of the cash I already posesss.

    I mean words honestly cannot describe the magnitude of how bad your prospect is, it's honestly so bad, it has to be a troll.
    • Like x 2
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    The important thing to note, is that this is obviously not the thread to discuss making premium status better of course.

    You suggest that the devs didn't carefully pick the quantities to match $5, you're right that they don't match $5, however, you're wrong about the devs not carefully picking the quantities.

    Clearly they did carefully pick the quantities, too the extent they're giving you just enough to feel like you got something, but well short of enough to purposefully leave you feeling like you want more.

    Given your response too, I'm going to run with the assumption that you're quite new to the game, because if you weren't you'd know full well the premium cash cap isn't 10 years old...

    The premium cash cap used to be $2,000, very recently it got increased to $3,000.

    Now knowing that fact, what does that tell you about the developers purposeful implementation of the restriction, anything different?

    It should indicate to you, that they want it there on purpose to frustrate the premium player into subbing or buying escrow tokens.

    Also, as ive done in other threads as well on this topic over the years, the repair frustration premium players put forward despite having some merit is also often objectively false through excessive exaggeration.

    The only time you mathematically cannot repair your gear is when you leave it long between repairs, if you're repairing after every down or every 2 downs, the frustration is not as significant even remotely as some premium players like to portray.

    The only time it might get annoying would be survival mode, in which case I'd question why you weren't prepared to sub for a month during that period where having access to your cash and avoiding that frustration otherwise present might have been worth the spend.

    If you weren't prepared to sub even then, I'd honestly have to question what could possibly be in membership that would ever make you do so.
    • Like x 3
  10. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    You can't actually cite yourself as a source. I did enjoy that giggle though. Mepps' posts say's you're incorrect.

    Good analogy. Let's run with it. The car is out of gas.

    You: "We can use this water instead! Thoughts and prayers everyone!"
    Me: "Let's find more gas."


    This is more word salad. You're creating your own definition for "DLC" when we're discussing game features and perks? You appear to be using "DLC" as short for "narrative additions" / "new missions" incorrectly.

    "DLC" is short form for "Downloadable Content" that is added to the game. It's a pretty amorphous and abstract umbrella term that could refer to anything from new game features to new narrative content that is downloaded and added to the game. For example; in DCUO the first DLCs included both narrative content and various powersets, the shield weapon, the "utility belt" feature and so on, respective to the individual DLC. These features were later separated from DLCs to be sold a la carte (that means individually).

    I do not think "DLC" is a software feature. :rolleyes: It is a game feature. As in; it is a draw for players to play the game or a selling point. Meaning; players thinking that new content additions after launch are an attractive additional reason to buy and play the game. I shouldn't have to explicitly explain something this basic, but hopefully this prevents you from making up your own rules and definitions of things in this case at least.

    While narrative additions are not "game objects", both can be "features". A player can be attracted to a game for new added story content. A player can also be attracted to a game because of new added game objects like powersets, weapons, movement modes, styles for all of these things and so on. This makes them all equally "features"; but not necessarily the same amount of time or work to create, and they don't all necessarily have the same appeal to all players, or retain their value to the player the same way over time either. For example, narrative content stops being played when it's not relevant anymore while a powerset will continue to be used by players if they find it appealing, or conversely they may not be interested in a powerset at all based on its theme, while they continue to wear ingame styles they've got through the whole play experience over years (or a decade). So the topic of the discussion here is to find a replacement *feature* that is suitably appealing to players that will satisfy them as much as narrative content (the feature we lost) does.

    note* I'm using "feature" as an adjective not a noun.



    Honestly, you seem really upset at the substance of my replies. You should use the ignore feature on me.
    • Like x 1
  11. Kestral Committed Player

    Going forward the cash cap really is the only thing keeping people from dropping memberships honestly but yes this cap should be high enough or the repair price low enough that you can repair your gear 5-10 times without having to sell things. Honestly I've never understood why your currency didn't immediately refill from what was in your escrow after a purchase.
    • Like x 3
  12. Proxystar #Perception

    If it truly is, just about repairs then there are of course alternative solutions outside of raising the cash cap, as you've rightly hinted at.

    Such solutions could be repairs and only repairs can take cash from locked escrow, that would probably just require some coding I'd imagine..

    Or the devs could significantly decrease the cost of gear repairing.

    This of course entirely puts too one side the prospect that the devs want the premium player to be frustrated, which i still insist is the reality.

    Sometimes I think there's more too the cash cap request because getting more cash, especially when they throw figures around like 20-100k is because it's also about more than repairs.

    What they also want is R&D as well, which is the other frustration the devs have put in and although incredibly negligible depending on the increase further access to the broker.

    Theres usually more too the request than just repairs, it's just repairs is often the go too because it attempts to garner a more immediate response of sympathy, despite the fact they could of course sub at any moment :)
    • Like x 1
  13. Isif Committed Player

    Agreed. Having access to your money in $3000 increments is different from having full access. The single purchase cap would still guarantee that you never purchased anything in game that had a pricetag higher than $3000. Auto-refill should be a non-issue.
    • Like x 1
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    The trouble I subjectively have with proposing member benefits in the form of power accesses, movements modes and the like is because they're not a real hook and this provides very little if any ongoing benefit to the member.

    We currently have access to all powers as a member, there's nothing stopping a person from subbing for example, making a rage toon then canceling and keeping that rage toon.

    This same thing would apply to any future power or movement mode as well unless you're suggesting that character becomes blocked upon sub lapse, are you?

    This is why these types of benefits are less appealing and enticing than something ongoing and perpetual.

    Remember episode access was a perpetual benefit, so despite the fact one off token benefits are worth discussing, the best way to replace a lost perpetual benefit is with a new perpetual benefit.

    For similar reasons asking for something like a power respec token is a bad idea, the reason it's a bad idea is because it's inflexible and of very negligible value to a raft of individuals, let's say you change powers very little, having an eventual stack of 10+ power respec tokens in your bank, is going to have little value to you, not to mention wasting bank space.

    This is why a better idea for example would be increasing the 500DBC to 1000 or even 1500DBC each month.

    The idea is infinitely better because it provides the player with a perpetual ongoing benefit/fund that doesn't go anywhere, doesn't waste space and provides the player with a way to buy replays, power respecs, nth metal, seals etc.

    This is why you wouldn't need to actually provide players with free seals or nth metal each month either, because providing the DBC achieves the exact same result with absolutely zero additional effort to the devs other than changing a number.

    The other benefit being particularly requested are stabilizers and quark discounts of which I'm sure the perpetual nature and benefit of are quite abundantly obvious.
    • Like x 1
  15. Proxystar #Perception

    I also don't mind the idea, I'm not seeing an immediate issue as long as no item can ever be purchased exceeding $3000.

    This means nothing on the broker exceeding $3000, even if the escrow is there and no R&D items exceeding $3000 even if the escrow is there

    If the item is more than that it errors.

    Again this is entirely putting aside a dev desire to cause frustration.
  16. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying add these features AND build systems to customize them. The customizations themselves can be sold a la carte (like the existing movement mode styles) and access/use of the style manager can then be locked behind membership.

    I also suggested that all the powers be open anyhow for some of the reasons you suggest (only swapping existing characters would be a charge). I'm not super married to this suggestion but this is inline with making DLC (narratives) free. The reasoning behind this is that the wider selection of powersets could be tried by the player (for free) and then the really nice VFX kits (styles) for these powersets can be sold and monetized directly to the player if they fall in love with a specific power and want to upgrade the look of the power. And just like costume styles they can change them again at a later time if something nice comes out later. Offering VFXkits (styles) for these items is also totally cosmetic and so require far less resources than entirely new powersets. So the team could make new powersets where needed and for others that really only need a reskin they could release a style for it instead. Have cake; eat it too.

    Superhero powers (in general) are a big motivating factor to why players are attracted to a game with this (or Marvel) IP. They're as big a motivator as the story component of the game itself. The superhero genre is all about cool looking character designs, and cool looking powers. The game can exist indefinitely if it monetizes this.

    2/3 of this game's players are currently using paid powersets. And taking a look at DCUO's Twitter or YouTube comments over the past 10 years let's you know how important powers are to players. Finding ways to monetize them (in this case their customization) is a good way. It allows players to play the base game but need to sub to trick out their character and make them fancy. It's also not gameplay influencing so you avoid any pitfalls of p2w.

    It is ideal to monetize cosmetic items, boosts and stuff like that. These are the bread and butter of an MMO. The problem in DCUO is that there isn't enough cosmetic items to monetize so I'm suggesting creating more of what people want, that can then be monetized.

    Nothing against having more free money, and I included it in my original suggestion post as well -- I would argue it's a bare minimum that should happen. I just don't think this is a sufficiently motivating thing to keep people subscribed, or to entice them to, on its own. I'll save just as much money not playing the game at all as I would save with these discounts. This is the reality of why discounts and freebies just won't be enough -- they're good perks but they're not a replacement for a real "feature".

    Plus there isn't enough interesting content in the MP to justify spending sub fees in exchange for equivalent SC to spend in there. Ask anyone with lifetime; they're full of SC but nothing interesting to spend it on. If the MP was in a different condition and had tons of fantastic styles, or something we all wanted, then it might be true but this is not currently true. Again, that's part of the goal--to fill up the MP with stuff people want to spend their money on.
    • Like x 2
  17. AruEdu Well-Known Player

    Deberian poner la posibilidad de mirar en que lugar del mapa se encuentran tus amigos... para poder ir a ayudar a alguno si te apetece.. y sin necesidad de que el te pida ayuda... tambien deberian aƱadir la posibilidad de entrar en las instancias de los amigos sin haber hablado antes.. solo enviando una solicitud... asi estarian los amigos siempre interconectados.
    y tengo una pregunta... Dice el tio que pretenden poner todos los capitulos gratis antes del verano .. pero el verano llega en 10 dias.. pondran esa expansion la semana que viene? je je no puedo esperar xD

    you need to put posibility to check where in the map are your friend list players... also too you can add posibility to join in the same instance group before to join in the instance.
    ALSO got a question ... you said that you want to make all episodes FREE for all before to the summer?? the summer is here in 10 days on spain... you go to put this update the next week? xD i cant wait he he.
  18. Arizona_Bear New Player

    membership players should have their pets do a little extra damage and members should also get a 100% chance breakthrough with or without seals once a month and lastly members should have one extra slot in the utility belt
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    I have nothing against the idea of adding content and monetizing it and building systems and features, the developers should be doing that outside of membership benefits anyway.

    If the developers add some systems and features later that they include somehow in membership that's all good and well also.

    The reason however, I'm not suggesting these sorts of things in this particular thread is because this membership revamp is occuring this Summer, not next Summer. (I'm not saying you can't suggest the ideas, just explaining why certainly I, don't see them as being likely.)

    I am not optimistic at all, not even in the slightest that such additional features or systems would even remotely be ready in time for the membership revamp that is being discussed in this thread was earlier said was coming this summer, so despite I have absolutely no issue with your suggestions on a theoretical level, they're somewhat irrelevant because they can't be readily implemented.

    That is why most people are talking about receiving benefits based on what is already in the game, not what they would like to see in the game ;)

    In terms of your comments around the marketplace I entirely disagree with your view, you're looking at the marketplace entirely from a "style cosmetic perspective" and acting like that's the only thing of value in there, perhaps that's not what you're saying but it certainly appears so, because you say things like they're full of SC but nothing interesting to spend it on; I don't think that's true at all.

    The power respecs, name change tokens, movement tokens, nth metal, seals, augment materials to boost what you earn in game, outright buy stabilizers with SC, I don't think there's really a case at all of people not finding something of value in there.

    providing a significant boost to marketplace credit or loyalty points provides players with exactly the boosts they're after when they request things like nth metal grants, seals, replays even because they're things people are always buying and they're already in the game and ready to immediately go.

    If this membership benefit revamp is occurring this summer then with respect and not to bag your idea, but I am not comfortable accepting a "promise that we'll work on additional exclusive features" a promise that may or may not ever eventuate to replace a perpetual perk that was removed by all intents and purposes over 18 months now with the introduction of open episodes during the pandemic.

    In my personal view the best ideas I've seen so far expressed here are

    • significant increase in monthly replay badge grant
    • significant increase in monthly marketplace cash grant
    • permanent and significant increase in the member exclusive quark vendor discount
    • significant increase in daily stabilizer reward for members
    • exclusive member reward boxes
    • seals of preservation (possibly completion) dropping in game exclusively for members
    • permanent increase in Nth Metal drops exclusively for members
    • Less experience feeding penalties and breakthrough rates with artifacts and augments exclusively for members
    Those things all represent perpetual ongoing benefit to members based on things in game that already exist and could be easily implemented tomorrow or within the next month, it certainly does not require the development time required to make movement mode, power enhancements and the like or more significant in game features, the developers don't even seem to have the development time to balance PVP, they're not going to do that.

    Again, appreciate your ideas, but they're not really immediately practical :)
    • Like x 6
  20. SuperCorp Level 30

    When we collect auras and materials it would be nice to also unlock them on all our charaters... would also be nice to give the higher paying membership a way to get old emblems they may have missed. Or just do a special daily capsule that might drop items only membership players can get. Bonus stabilizers would be nice as well or give us a instance we can run to get them but without a lockout. If someone wants to run an instance for x amount of time for one or a few stabilizers that could be something people would like. I know I would. Side note.. please work on some more female costume pieces. Would be awesome to get the supergirl costume she wore in apocalypse. Even an evil or dark supergirl or overgirl costume. Ty
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