Being troll is too sad

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by MMDDGG, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. Plowed In Loyal Player

    :) lol, joke fail...

    But yeah, troll's are stressed out because of 5-1-1-1. Healing can also be stressful at times. The 3-1-2-2 is where I wish we were as the standard, with one dps available to 2nd tank if needed. Most enjoyable/balanced gameplay even if it takes an extra 5-10 minutes.
    • Like x 2
  2. GJGBlackDragon Dedicated Player

    Isn't it time to rethink how the role works? I mean, literally recreate the role as something new and innovative?
    There's this game I don't need to mention it's name that has the following roles and they don't have a Controller Power Battery since they rely only on cooldowns (DCUO don't need to make a copy paste from this, but I think it will be nice to learn something from how they are doing things successfully):

    Commando
    Commando is very important in every fight. Their attacks will not charge your chain gauge bar, they are necessary to stabilize it. Every Commando attack will slow the bar and they will allow Ravagers to stagger your enemies.
    The second thing is that Commando attacks (the only exception is Sazh) will throw your enemies into the air. As a matter of fact, monsters will not be able to attack. If you will be playing well, then your opponents will be flying for the whole fight. In addition these attacks will make stagger to last longer.
    A good thing is to learn something abort teams with two Commandos. They can attack two targets in one moment so they can immobilize two enemies. This is a very powerful strategy when you are trying to surprise your opponents.
    Sentinel
    This profession was unnecessary in Final Fantasy XII. Now it is very important in all difficult fights. It is a typical tank whose role is to draw attention of all enemies and resist their attacks. He don't have many abilities that can hurt your enemies (except of one, very weak) but he has some very powerful defensive spells. Sometimes only Sentinel is able to resist some most powerful attacks.
    The best tactic is to use him against bosses and some larger groups of enemies when you will have to survive the first part of the fight. It is good to use him while healing and buffing the rest of the team. As a matter of using Challenge ability, chain gauge will stay on a high level.
    Medic
    As a healing character Medic is the best in every battle. To successfully support your team, the best option is to use two that kind of roles in one paradigm. But healing is not the only things that this caster can do - resurrection and Dispell spell will be handy later on.
    Ravager
    Ravager is a role with two main tasks: dealing damage and charging the chain gauge. He has very powerful attacks, but you have to use them wisely. First thing is to use the Libra ability as often as possible. As a matter of fact, you will learn something about your enemy resistances and immunities.
    Ravager has also a second task - to charge enemy chain gauge. A major disadvantage of this ability is fact, that the bar is charging very quickly, but it can also get empty after few seconds. To slow this process it is good to attack with one Commando character. In fact, sometimes you will be able to manage with three Ravagers.
    Synergist
    Similar to Sentinel, Synergist is not very handy at the beginning of the game but later on it will be necessary. Abilities like Haste, Shell and Protect will give you very powerful buffs in the battle. The main disadvantage is that buffing the hole team can take you many rounds. The best option is to start at the beginning of the fight. If your enemy is weak a good idea is to use Synergist only for two rounds - everyone will get haste buff and the battle will be easier.
    Saboteur
    The last, but not the least important class is Saboteur. As you can already know from the name, he's main role is to weaken the enemy. His main abilities is to lower your enemy resistances and stuff like that. Unfortunately, some enemies are very resistant to his debuffs and, as a matter of fact, the role of Saboteur could be limited is some battles. A very special ability is Death ( Vanille can learn it at the end of the game). It is good to invest some points here, because it will help you to defeat Adamantoise - one of the most dangerous monsters in the game.

    Just looking at the roles of that game I will say that the DCUO Controller role will be nice to be more of a Synergist + Saboteur than a simple Power Battery. I mean, if you put an ability like Haste Buff for groups in the game, we will have at least 2 Controllers in every raid (one to keep the Synergist abilities up at all times and another doing Saboteur and Power Recharge).

    I also think that DCUO can learn more about how to make the DPS role something else besides throwing powers in a rotation blindly until an enemy is defeated. Just check the Commando and Ravager descriptions, maybe DCUO can evolve into something more besides having to bring back the Weapon Mastery Combos and AMs back to the game (please don't do that, or at least not in the same way it was done previously).

    Thank you for your time and I hope you read this constructive message from a positive angle.

    My 2 cents.
    • Like x 1
  3. Plowed In Loyal Player

    It seems that some would like it that way, turn the rpg into a 3rd person shooter with superpowers. I like where the game is. I don't think either heals or trolls need buffs, I think we need to include the roles more. Can you do 5-1-1-1? Yep, might be a little spammy, but it's an option. In my opinion it shouldn't dictate how people can play. So I don't think buffing the strength of heals or trolls is needed. If you want to sacrifice vit/dom/resto for power in order to be a battery for power/heals, you can do that. Some people like that excitement/stress. I don't mind it either, I just prefer a smoother run where everyone is involved and having fun and completing content. I love some friendly competition from time to time, but it's a little out of hand when people start getting really upset over not being #1 in damage, especially when you succeed and succeed quickly!
  4. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Because this game isn't those games. If they start turning this game into others it won't work out well, it'll just become a knockoff handbag.
  5. Roocck Committed Player

    This is the reason why I don't play support role anymore...
  6. Shifty Committed Player

    In all honesty 4-1-1-2 is a better set up Imo, healers don't need a back up if there are two trolls, so 2 trolls 1 heal 1 tank, 4 dps with one of the dps being a 2nd tank if needed. These raids are rather simple and don't need 5 dps, especially since you'll technically get about the same burn in with 5 dps and a solo troll as you would 2 trolls 4 dps, unless everyone is actually efficiency in controlling their power bars
  7. Shifty Committed Player

    I accidentally sent that without finishing what I was saying, but if I'm forced to solo troll, I'm not going to stress out on spamming for dps, if the heals and tank are doing good on power I'm not worried, I'll do what I can to make sure the dps aren't empty, but other than that, they'll have to be ready to rotate supply drops and colas and such
  8. Plowed In Loyal Player

    I'm happy with that too, I typically run with a league mate who can heal/dps as well as myself, so we kinda communicate "hey can you flip to heal for this boss...". We're flexible, whatever gets us through. By the way we're talking in instance chat....usually by ourselves :)
    • Like x 1
  9. CaptainColdJr007AKAFreeJohnson Committed Player

    Buffing the vitalization won't achieve anything significant. That 15% vit boost would only increase pot by around 50-60'ish and dumps by 120-130'ish. That's a maximum of 5775 extra power out for 1 person assuming max dumping speed for a minute of play. That's a basically a 500 power cost. So say a hl person that got 5775 extra power would only be able to do a 300 power cost move and a combo from it. Excluding passive regen during animation time, there's not even enough power out for a 200 power cost move afterward to be clipped.

    The main issue is that you can get a good amount of strength in your pot and power dumps with the 35% vit boost passive if you are full vit spec, but you can't actually use the full vit spec to its max potential because power costs are so high. If you want to maximize your power out in an actual rotation you need to spec for more power than you do vitalization to be able to clip powers. The more power you have to spec for to be able to do this, the less vit you have, the less vit you have, the less that passive % buff means.

    When they increased controller power dump cost and lowered the power healing strength to account for adding the precision buff and increasing its strength, they killed off the power management of controlling while still getting vit as a primary stat.

    Example:
    Say I'm full power spec with barely 200sp at 201 cr (their expected sp level) to be able to clip abilities and regenerate my supercharge in the fastest time possible.
    5476 vit
    28507 pow

    If my passive vit was buffed to 50% instead of 35%, I'd go to 6071 vit. 595 vit increase.
    But say if power costs were changed to where vit/pow mods held me over instead of having to go full power and 175sp in power, I'd have
    23*10 (vit/pow mod increase from straight pow) = 230
    and then 175sp in vit instead of 175sp in power would be 561 vit + 10% vit bonus from 100sp in vit.

    My base vit from 5476 would've been ~3968 (subtracting 38% vit from league hall and passive vit).
    3968+230+561=4759
    4759*1.48 (35% passive, 3% lh, 10% sp) = 7043 vit. 1567 vit increase.

    Almost triple the vit increase.

    EDIT: Tbh, I find it kind of ridiculous to even pitch the idea of removing controllers given what the actual implementation would look it.

    -Remove Troll Stance Full Stop-
    Gadgets, HL, Munitions, Mental, Quantum have no support role, and they're not going to be reworked into tanks or healers probably.

    -Remove power out for controllers-
    Troll stance is just dps rotations with a defense debuff for most content instead especially since cc is gone. If my only job is debuffs, I might as well not even be a troll because the only thing engaging I have is on a 12 second cooldown. Not to mention this would get rid of the weapon buff attached the power dump move. That'd have to be moved into the regular weapon buff or into the weapon mastery focus to keep weapon playstyle in the same place roughly. And if they were gonna be open to doing that, they could've did that from the start and we'd have lower cost which is what I've been complaining about.

    EDIT2: And they'd have to give everyone free mods again. Everyone has probably already used their mod transfer kits to remod for having weaker controllers, if they're going to have none, they'd probably want to change mods again to compensate for that difference of not having any dumps or pot at all.
    • Like x 1
  10. lukelucky Devoted Player

    trolls who dont know how to play their roles? players not understanding their roles and powers has been an issue since 2011

    short of toturials being added this is what we will have
  11. CTEN Well-Known Player

    I could Spam power dump and PoT and still never fill some DPS bar.
    I have been calling them out by doing math based on their power in and their lowness on the DPS charts.

    Most of the time i can prove that their Power spam is not helping their Damage.

    I have officially stopped putting skill points into ViT. I still get VIT and another stat for my MODS.

    I focus on staking Might, Power and Precision.

    I have stopped worrying about Crowd Control outside of saving myself.

    I have stopped worrying about debuffing outside of the Defense debuff, which is a very low gain in damage.

    Being a troll requires no skill when you don't care about anyone but the tank and Healer.

    Being a troll requires no skill now. Focus on improving your battle troll status. Everything else is pointless.
    • Like x 2
  12. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    All the negative posts... Tbh, fellas troll role is fine. Im only speaking from a giving power and power management point of view. Everyone is too hooked on the 5-1-1-1 setup. Devs already stated they were trying to get away from the dps stacked runs but not make it impossible. Is solo trolling doable? Sure it is. Is it a workout for the troll himself, yes.

    As for the dps low on power, reminder(the devs don't recommend 5 dps groups) cycle sodas, supply drops, and SC.
    Your memory of pre-revamp trolling is exactly what it is, a memory.

    WORKING AS INTENDED...

    Controller role is exactly what it is. I have no power issues at all. Dps gotta stop dropping the supply drops in the beginning of the fight wanting the damage boost. 3 to 4 well-timed well-placed supply drops will power the whole boss fight.

    Solo trolling can be easy for the troll himself too.

    I prefer hybrid focus, good WM combo with decent power return.
    I can't speak for those with low sp. I have 100 sp in might/power and 160 in vit. I aimed for the 10% increase in might/power tree.

    U don't have to put a debuff on every add in the raid.


    and BTW Im a solo troll and like it 302sp
    • Like x 1
  13. Shifty Committed Player

    honestly, instead of them buffing Vit as someone stated earlier in the post, I suggest lowering the recharge power cost from 300 to 200, idk how many of you guys will agree with that but i feel like that make trolling a little bit more comfortable :)
    • Like x 1
  14. Shifty Committed Player

    lmao i hate that, if you mean what I think you mean, no one using group or instance chat anymore to communicate with the other group members. But yeah, the heal/dps thing is a pretty good idea as well!
  15. Sixfiguredice Well-Known Player

    Do this:

    Use a power, try Dual Pistols Full Auto while counting 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand. Repeat the process by using a power.

    If players can't stay powered and you can't keep your power bar full within this "small margin" of time its the players fault and there's no cure for that. Oh fudge moments are for supercharges and this is when dps's should go in a bit heavier on damage but still be cautious. Its basicly like saying hey dps this is your que now go pew pew.
  16. Sixfiguredice Well-Known Player

    Actually count to 3 one thousand its a safer number. Either way its still a small amount of time
    • Like x 1
  17. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Same goes for the countless bad healers that also refuse to carry shields. Sorry, I've been seeing a lot of bad healers, really bad. To the point where I'm using shields and blocking, with no help from the healer that is full of power.

    A bad dps can be carried. A bad healer really Fs things up.

    And when did it become a thing for healers to stand on the conveyer belt in the back of the first boss in WC? I've had to ask, nicely at first, for them to stand on the ground. Line of sight is a thing I wish people would learn.
    • Like x 1
  18. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    What's wrong with munitions and their defense debuff? They have two. 5bmg is more for damaging or hybrid play. Smoke grenade launcher doesn't do much damage, is pretty much instant, and a great aoe knockdown.
  19. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    I don't get this either. Trolling was my favorite role to play, then tanking. That has totally flipped now. I troll now when we can't find a second. I don't get this forced way of playing this role. They really can give the ability to double tick or something to help out with the power.

    Heck, I'm even past being able to battle troll. That ship has obviously sailed.
    • Like x 2
  20. Ringz Dedicated Player


    Well the players now suck in general. No one likes to research up things. I wouldn't be surprised if folks still think healers and trolls can overperform with heals and power due to how much stats we had prevamp. I mean ffs, people still using wm as support roles, and when I ask them are they battle x, they say no.

    Tho i do think alot of this misunderstanding would've been solve if the devs did that stream of showcasing the new meta that revamp brought along. After youtube, dcuo twitch stream is next for where majority of dcuo population goes to watch for information. Forums are dead last.

    Interesting, on why there hasn't been a follow up with a explanation stream.