Beating a dead horse #2

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Fatal Star, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i mean: in many elite raids, two heals and tanks (if not three!) are common (looking at zooE).
    but two trolls? never heard about that before... yeah, i started in dezember 2013, thats why.
  2. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I blame pftters and their stupid superpowered focus. Suck it up and use handblasters, if they’re good enough for Circe and Doctor Fate, they’re good enough for you! :D
    • Like x 1
  3. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Hey now, I'm a PFtTer, but that's because I play a combo power, which is absolute garbage as hybrid, so it's my only option :(

    I'm not saying nerf superpowered, it's fine as it is, hybrid needs to be buffed though as well as weapons expert, and weapon regeneration needs to be increased to make up for the fact you're not regenerating power 100% of the time like you are with superpowered.

    To fix trolls though, something needs to be done with the CC and debuff areas, cause they can't really do anything with power without messing something up.
    • Like x 2
  4. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I always forget combo powers, sorry :S What about if we reverted them to the old model of being precision based, and countering and using no power? Or alternatively the developers could just BUFF THE OTHER FOCUSES THIS CENTURY. Ahem. :D
    • Like x 1
  5. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Really that's all that needs to be done. Add a weapon buff to hybrid, increase weapon buff on weapons expert, maybe increase base damage on melee combos, then nerf any outliers. I don't really see that as being time extensive but then again I'm no dev!

    More people using weapons means the trolls weapon buff gets some exercise ,which makes them slightly more sought out for.
    • Like x 1
  6. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Why not ranged combos too? So it’s as strong as ranged pftt?
  7. Sapphire Melody Well-Known Player

    I agree, changes to trolls should be made. Since like forever.

    However, I feel like I have to be fair here and cut the devs some slack because since the revamp our league is running in a group where the tank and the healer actually need a troll to keep the group alive. So while the role is far from perfect and should absolutely be worked and improved on, it's already an improvement over "eh just go DPS, who needs power".
    • Like x 2
  8. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    *Diet Coke.
    • Like x 1
  9. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    You need to play with better Controllers. This is how my Elite runs went last Thursday with me playing as a Controller:

    *the tank dies*
    Me: No problem. I'll tank too.

    *the healers die*
    Me: No problem. I'll do group healing too.

    *I die*
    Group: oh no we're screwed, just wipe it.

    Depending on the specific boss fight, that is all entirely doable as a Controller.
  10. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    The extra weapon buff on hybrid would be enough for ranged combos, they don't really have as much risk to them as melee so there's not really any reason to buff the base damage on those.
  11. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i hate what they did to scissor kick... use it with those characters and see,
    they are NOT single target, not as long as you shoot three (!!!) projectiles!
  12. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    But I wanna shoot things in the face :/
  13. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    As a gadgets troll, that decoy is a lot more useful then what people give it credit for, so I can definitely see your PoV.

    What I'm really asking for in this thread though, is to give the group the same amount of strain when the troll dies as if the healer or tank dies, like in elite content. Even in PanE, if the tank or healers are out, it's basically a garuanteed wipe. If the troll dies, we still have a good chance of beating it if everyone plays smart. Sure there's unicorn trolls such as yourself that can make the best out of every situation, but those are rare. That's why I made my debuff suggestion on the first page. No troll means a buffed boss which means a bigger struggle.
    • Like x 1
  14. StillDeathern Dedicated Player

    Back in my day... We ran two trolls because the power demand was very high (No AM). One troll would spend the better part of the instance giving instapower, the other handled POT (yep, use to be manually done, good trolls could double POT, which in itself I wont go into here) and use debuffs, at least in a decent group. The backup troll could actually over ride the primary trolls POT, so on runs the trolls compared who had the highest VIT, not a true test of ones trolling ability mind you, but rather just who had the best gear/mods/etc to give the best insta-tick. Whoever had the biggest number got to handle POT duties. The other troll, only POT'd when that troll died, again in theory.

    A great troll, however, never really needed a second troll. A great troll could handle the responsibilities of all the above, and supply the group with sufficient power, as you can imagine these players were in very high demand, as it freed up a spot for another DPS when you could get one in your group. Players had those players on their friends lists, when pugging, those great trolls were often complemented on a job well done.

    Man I miss those friends, those comments. You never hear them today. AM really ruined trolling. It made players self sufficient in most cases.

    Recent changes have helped, but out of all the support roles, trolls suffer the most from lack of need, lack of respect, lack of appreciation now. No successful group could exist before without them. Now, they are almost an after thought.
    • Like x 1
  15. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    There is more to Gadgets tanking than Decoy. With proper consumable usage, modding, and shield rotations, you can fill in for a tank quite nicely. It is a very specialized build though.

    I'd like to see something more nuanced than "making debuffs stronger." All that would translate into is stronger debuffs at the cost of having NPC Defense mitigation increased. That is what happened under the Revamp.

    Aside from the systems issues surrounding the Controller role, there is also the matter of content design. Most content that involves Controller mechanics often feels lazy or may just be an afterthought. The buffed boss is an example of one. There is actually a specific boss in Earth 3 that does a lot more damage than normal unless it is debuffed. I doubt most people know about it though because the debuff isn't required to defeat it.

    I'd like to see mechanics that involves specific types of crowd control, group crowd control, or crowd control that could work on a boss. Anything that emphasizes the crowd control capabilities of the Controller role would make the role more interesting to play. As is, crowd controlling is a fine art that is only effective in select pieces of content.
    • Like x 1
  16. SparkmanX Committed Player


    I also think that the role of controller should be revised again.

    For me there are two things that can be done in the game to make this role more interesting.

    1, Make instances that require the use of crowd control to achieve a specific objective

    2. Give a greater preponderance to the debuffs, in such a way that these have a very noticeable impact in the battles against the bosses.
  17. StillDeathern Dedicated Player

    As long as we are making a wish list, I would like to see various Debuffs/Buffs from the routine 3. All the troll classes have the same base abilities.

    The main three:

    Heal debuff
    Damage debuff

    All trolls have these, how about making each troll class have a unique sub-ability? Some examples:

    Speed Up Allies, movement/action of allies in increased
    Slow Down Targets, movement/action is decreased
    Silence(?) - target lose ability to perform actions for duration
    Shout - Allies restore previously used powers more rapidly when used.

    Or something along those lines. No need for everything to be cookie cutter. Variety is the spice of life. If you give sub abilities to trolls, groups may be more welcoming to a secondary troll in group, or even a primary for that matter.
    • Like x 1
  18. Hytch Well-Known Player

    I like this idea of adding in DCUO versions of "Haste" "Silence" and other classic rpg debuffs. Some ideas that I just came up with off the top of my head:
    1. Quantum have a power that dilates time and speeds up group members' cast times and/or a power that make enemies slower or have slower cast times.
    2. Have Munition throw a flashbang that keeps the enemies from casting for a certain period of time.
    3. Have Mental cast depression that makes enemies attacks hurt less or go with the classic fear/panic.

    I'm sure others can think of some that are better than those but things like that would be immersive and make the Controller role useful and wanted.
    • Like x 1
  19. TechWarrior0329 Steadfast Player

    You forgot one Sort of a favorite of mine (HEAVY SARCASM HERE) One player decides to quit team .. no wipe everything going basically fine just isn't going quite fast enough or some one from his LEAGUE needs him for something else...

    Just leave and endure the horror of a whole 2 minute deserter penalty? ... NAW

    Explain your need/desire to leave and start a vote to be excused? ... NAW

    Start a vote to disband because YOU want to go do something else? Hey let's do THAT one!
    • Like x 1
  20. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    My favorite troll mechanic raid was AnB. It made tanks pay attention to their pulls. While it taught trolls to not only power, but to use CC and pulls, both at the same time. I miss normal raids needing planning for bosses and such.

    I agree that making a random buff on a boss is obviously a lazy, after thought, kind of mechanic to throw in. Why not just make that a norm for all boss fights?