The argument to stay in your lane, ignore the hackers would only apply if this wasn't an MMO. As others have stated, having a group of people that play outside the norm skews the entire system. Can they farm marks? Can they farm gear? Can they farm TCs? All of these would allow them to get rare items at a higher rate then others. This devalues these rare items, making them mean less to the community as a whole. The impact to the developers is another thing to consider. Time they have to spend patching glitches that people are exploiting is time not spent on fixing other bugs, creating new content, etc. And be realistic, there will always be exploits, it's the nature of software. It's not like these guys are just stumbling on a trick like super strength lets you launch invisible jets quicker. These guys are creating/installing third party software to exploit the code at a lower level allowing them to do things never intended for regular users. It's blatent and malicious. This isn't Skyrim, these people aren't just impacting their own personal game. This is a community and every member contributes to the whole. When members choose to act in this manner it hurts the community as a whole and should be stopped.
You guys are acting like the hackers care they got caught. They have been in trade chat bragging about being the first to best the raid. Not to mention all of the players who say "What's it got to do with you" Gone are the days of competitive integrity. There players have been hacking content as long as I can remember.
Not only should the hackers be banned but the people running with them should be banned as well. If you see the same people grouped up with the speed hacker then that tells you what you need to know
I agree with the sentiment but it's a challenge to get any sort of justice. That said, banning by IP wouldn't work for a variety of reasons but the two most obvious are people can play through a VPN or just restart their router in most cases as their ISP will issue a new IP. Taking their items is also a less viable penalty as players can basically shuffle items through any number of alt accounts, kinda like money laundering. Really for speed hacks what would be the ideal would be for group members to kick people who are cheating but that's not cut and dried either as most speed hacks can be dialed down so it becomes hard to determine which are cheating unless you looking closely at the logs who has time to do that while an instance is going. In PVP it's easier because you see the string of damage but in PVE you have to know what to look for. That also doesn't get into the fact that a lot of people mistake cheeze or even just really good game play for speed hacks. I wish there was a better solution but I think until a better alternative comes along it still comes down to report to the team using the proper channels and for truely obvious examples either kick them or make a stand by leaving the instance. At least in the latter case you can maintain some sort of moral high-ground, whatever that's worth.
TBH, I know several of them don't care... and that's why they get involved with the speed hackers in the first place. They don't care that they ruin things for a lot of people by causing skewed data to show up in the logs used to determine difficulty tweaks. They just want everything instantly. The DLC we have now is DBG/DI's attempt to quash that... but the problem is that it will only encourage more of it. Until they put in safeguards to actually just prevent the speed hacking programs from doing their things... i.e., stop the flood of commands that come in... it will continue. It's not something that will get resolved overnight, next week, or even next month. I think it can be done but it will take a couple of months, bare minimum, for them to figure out what to do and how.
Once upon a time the Devs claimed to have tech in place to detect speed-hacks (this was their response when the speed-hacking was rampant not long after launch, tons of players were banned due to it). Maybe that was just for a single form of hack?
They definitely had something working back then. And it solved the problem for a long time. I remember clearly. But obviously their system was defeated at some point. I noticed when I came back last year and watched people solo the Superman bounties without their health even going down.
I do know that some hacks are really just keyboard macros that are turned up. While I would think they are not as effective since they are still limited by power bar cool downs and damage windows, they would probably still turn out better numbers that your average human fumbling at the keys. Regardless I think those are pretty hard to prevent or more to the point detect other than potentially by measuring the volume of inputs. Also I think game mechanics would make them less viable as you'd be in a key sequence for example when you need to block or roll out. AFAIK the proper (if I can use the term) hacks actually change or replace the client to circumnavigate things like cool-downs or damage windows. I have to think to fix these are on case by case basis, and would have to be responded to when the client is updated. The devs could add a mechanic to prevent that hack or something that triggers a warning to their logs. Either way I would think the people who develop these hacks would look for another avenue or vulnerability so it's very possible that it's a constant game of catch and close for the devs. I do have to say I haven't seen obvious evidence of speed hacks for some time but then again I can't remember the last time I've PVPd and I generally don't run the Elite versions of the raids which I would think are the two most likely places you'd see them. Is there a real resurgence in them? If so again it comes down to reporting so the devs have the data to look at and develop a response.
Keyboard macros are not necessarily speed hacking. Do they give an advantage? Yeah... but if you can find a programmable PS controller you could theoretically do the same. The actual act of speed hacking is accomplished by the use of an outside program that helps play your character. Anyone actually running the speed hacking program is a PC player, is running as a Weapons Expert because weapon attacks do not have cool downs, and is pretty damn near guaranteed to be running on a throwaway account as a premium player (just buying the bare minimum stuff necessary without membership to be able to run that content). The group with the speed hacker can be comprised of PC and PS players. As to PC vs PS, the PS is a "Walled Garden" when it comes to installing software. You cannot install programs from non-verified sources unless you jailbreak your PS, and there is no way that Sony would ever allow a speed hacking program to find its way into the PS store. It would get yanked and your developer creds and certificates would be revoked. As to a jailbroken PS, once you do that you will not be able to sign in to PSN. I've seen a speed hacker randomly queue into the event version of a raid or some LPVE instances as well. They'll run anything if it can nab them a couple of coins for whatever the DLC is. I know someone who got the feat "Stake well done" because it turned out they had a speed hacker in the group who didn't reveal himself until last boss. When you watch this stuff happen, yeah... it's really tempting to get someone to run you through it so you can get the feats and move on... but while your character and account has credit for completing it, did you really do those feats?
I played in an old MUDD (the text based precursors to the original MMOs) where the punishment for exploiting was "jail time". They would literally port your character into a jail cell room with no exit. You were stuck in there. Then they had like 50 different things you could do in the jail cell. Your "sentence" did not end until you did the proper string of things in the proper order, like solving a puzzle with no clues, just through trial and error. It meant that banned players could be returned to the game, but they didn't just spend their time offline or playing a different character or account. They had to log in and work on a character who was not able to be played and could not accomplish anything, just wasting their time. Which was used to balance out the fact that they had short-cutted their way to some results without putting in the proper work.
This would be interesting... and I assume it would be for all characters on the account and things would scale or they would CR lock you the way they do in iconic solos or the stabilizer fragment or seasonal event instances.... You get a series of doors and enemies to fight and it gets randomized every time otherwise people will post patterns on the web to show you how to get out of your particular jail (think of the three possible maps in Labyrinth of Lost Souls and the Golden Path of Destruction feat). Heck, maybe Labyrinth would be the place to do it and the number of things you have to solve is based on the highest CR character on your account.... you wander around, and if you kill or solve them out of order they will respawn. No currency, Nth Metal, or gear drops can be earned while in jail... gear is not broken if you get KOed in a fight... you get a special infinite jail soder so you don’t use up your regular or buff soders... if you log out, you have to start over again, or from the last successful “save point” (kinda like when a group enters SM how you can select a starting round for which everyone is eligible). You would have to also restrict all communication while in game too. You may be on to something here... if the developers are willing to build something like this.... and you could allow for varying levels of complexity based on the offense, which means you could theoretically allow the money glitchers back but the complexity for them to get out would be one of the most extremely complex ones available. And if you wanted to, you could set up a viewing station to allow others to watch what is going on... no progress meters other than “You have X tasks remaining,” and the person in jail can see that too.
Best part of your post was when you said "allow the money glitches hers back" perhaps you wasn't aware of it but less then 7 days after their so-called ban they were unbanned, kept all ill-gotten goods(items and money)
I remember that, as I have played MUDD's as well. That system was appropriate back then, as characters were more difficult to level and to gear up; you really felt the time/money loss then if your character got "jailed". Internet access was not as widespread and more expensive and getting your character "jailed" while having to use an internet cafe's computer to play could really empty your wallet and/or have your character progress stunted for months. However, current players would not respect their character being "stuck" in a prison for a certain amount of time; those players would just wait it out/create a new account and then repeat the offense that got them into trouble in the first place. In my opinion, an extended ban (3-4 months for example) with a complete character/inventory/money wipe would do the trick as punishment for each speed hack offense. Supported by a "three strikes you're account is perma-banned," rule for repeat offenders, speed hacking would become a not-so-coveted player option.
The idea is not time based. It is task based. Fail to complete the tasks and all of your characters stay in jail. Only side-step is to create a new account Because if you try to create a new character, the moment you step off the ship you are put in jail.
True; however, if you had to use an internet cafe to play a MUDD (if you didn't have a computer/internet at home) then it got costly trying to do the puzzles to get your characters out of that jail ($8.25 or more an hour). That is where the time/money cost comes in.
