Attention all might DPS please go precision for the new elite raids

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by gemii, Apr 9, 2019.

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  1. TITAN ephemeral Loyal Player

    no more a moment for me than it was for you...anyways...bye...
  2. TheLastSuperman Well-Known Player

    Sooooooo err'one in here talking about might/prec but not one mention of how Chronometric Emitters hitting hard sometimes? Run Stabilizer fragmentation pop a chrono watch the adds insta-die and boss health drop by 70-80% using just one emitter. I stopped using qwa-bombs long ago, js.

    Example: Full Prec loady not using chrono emitters 4k-12k dmg the best I've seen is 14k dmg and that was only because I entered in after door closed. So in other words let's say beast full prec player 400'ish sp not using emitters 14k dmg versus me just popping some emitters for 20-25k dmg. Stabilizer event is on easy mode using them. In instances you can pop one in a crowd of adds for anywhere from 2k-8k dmg per add within range.

    I'd stop focusing on "what is the absolute best way to win rn" and actually contribute some constructive feedback so we can fix more in the game then just the flavor of the week.
  3. Brit Loyal Player

    As Electric DPS, I've had separate Armories for quite a while: a Might based armory for solid AE damage, great for trash and boss fights that involved a lot of adds, and then a Precision based armory for single-target damage, great for burning down bosses that spawn few or no adds. I was under the impression that most higher end DPS could tell the difference between when AE and when single-target would be more effective, and regularly swapped up in order to optimize to the situation. Single Target does not necessarily mandate Precision; some powersets have viable single-target builds. Some don't, however, which is why precision exists as an option. Using the same abilities on Sea Beast that I used for Coram Rath would have seen very different results, because Sea Beast had no adds while he was up, and very few in between his returns. Similarly, in Titans, the turret fight went better with strong AE, while Deathstroke and Terra went better with strong single-target. AE builds for the Doomsday raid are less-than-optimal, but single target bulds for Gotham Zoo are not always ideal.

    The new raids, especially Shattered Gotham, are not very AE friendly. Most fights have few adds and wide open spaces, largely opposite of what we saw in Atlantis. Acknowledging the difference in the design of the new raids, and adjusting to better overcome a new challenge, does not somehow mean that Precision is superior or overpowered or not balanced. It simply means that the player is flexible, willing to employ different strategies for different types of fights.
    • Like x 1
  4. TheLastSuperman Well-Known Player

    ^ This. Perfect example would be hybrid tanks, in previous dlc you couldn't really run as one due to add timing and more... in this new dlc I'm running as hybrid tank more the adds seem to be much more clueless and/or diff or poor ai implementation I'm not sure but they're not even interrupting me on certain moves now when previous dlc I couldn't do a frost blast unless it was timed perfect now you can w/o penalty of being interrupted 8/10 times it feels like.
  5. SteelSD Level 30

    I'm not at all sure to whom you're referring, but I've had my own experience with Qwa-Bombs, so I think I can answer your questions about exploit-ability and why there likely isn't a groundswell of angst about them.

    A while ago, I ran with a league containing a number of casual players that contained many severely sub-standard DPS. If I remember correctly, I believe we were going to attempt a Hive E run a week or so into the DLC. One of the league officers informed everyone that we should be using them as an acceptable means to clear adds and take down the machine in the Deathstroke fight. What I didn't realize is that the idea originated from that person reading a developer forum post outing them as a cheesy exploit.

    Luckily, another <former> league member mentioned the dev post in Discord after the first boss fight. I didn't get it at first, but after the raid I clarified and yeah, found out I was hoodwinked into using them during that (and only that) raid. Unfortunately, we had to disband because while their use of Qwa-Bombs squeezed us through the second boss fight, the adds right after were a different story.

    The second and third DPS in the raid simply couldn't do enough damage even with Qwa-Bombs to continue. The group wouldn't have made it to the first boss fight without them. The troll finished within 6M of the 3rd DPS over the 75 painful minutes it took. By the end, I surmised that the second highest DPS was really only along in order to pick up the third highest DPS; who had a ranged Rage loadout that likely consisted of bailing wire, duct tape, Qwa-Bombs, and partially chewed bubble gum.

    To put it in context, the damage gap between my toon and the second DPS was 67% of the third DPS' overall damage. Both of them were using Qwa-Bombs the entire time.

    OF COURSE players of that ilk are going to rely on things like Qwa-Bombs. They have nothing else. That's not surprising though. Nothing is. I'm sure there are probably players out there who don't even understand a scorecard, so expecting them to do work on their damage output by using things like a parser is likely out of the question.

    I have a screen shot of the final damage numbers and the vote to disband. I have a lot of screen shots, actually. To this day, I feel badly for allowing myself to be snookered by exploiters into using a single Qwa-Bomb. It's unfortunate that they're able to be purchased on the broker. I got so many of them running the Anniversary event, I never even realized people would want to buy them. But, as I witnessed first hand, others will pay exorbitant amounts for a skill substitute and be 100% willing to use it if it's available.

    And that's the thing...if they can be leveraged like that by the majority of the population, why would that same majority cry out for their elimination? There's your answer. The idea that they're not meaningful in boss fights containing adds? C'mon. That's a non-starter.

    Elite boss fights like the first Hive E boss, Terra, and phases in Machine E required adds to be dealt with in a hurry while that DLC was relevant. Teekl this DLC along with add groups in other Elite boss fights this DLC often need to be handled to improve the group's chance of survival. Then add on your hallway damage farmers; who'll blow a 100% supercharge on the way to a boss fight if it means climbing half a rung up the board. The list is much longer than that, of course.

    The only alternative for some players is to wait two or three DLC's to clear content and grab feats. I have feeling that you, and possibly others you know, have experienced that frustration. But it doesn't justify exploiting; which I'm sure is something you're also aware of.

    What's unfortunate for you (and sadly, others) is that making light of the exploit-ability of that consumable simply removes all credibility from cries to nerf precision-based DPS. See, using a precision-based loadout is a skill-based tactic. Qwa-Bombs are not. Otherwise, Qwa-Bombs wouldn't continue to be DCUO's poorly-kept dirty little secret. But you know this, I'm sure, so my apologies for any redundancy.

    There are different tiers of prec-based DPS just as there are different tiers of might-based DPS. Not knowing that those tiers actually intermingle even at the top demonstrates a lack of experience with either precision-based strategies or with high-level might-based DPS. The latter can, and will, keep up while running as vitally important cogs through Elite content. If you haven't experienced that, then that either a 'you' issue or an indication of who you're running with; not an issue with precision DPS.
    • Like x 3
  6. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player


    If adds actually pose a threat in a fight, like for instance some bosses in this DLC, then qwa-bombs are 100% cheesy. Using them is just making up for either one's group set-up, the drawbacks of their power or playstyle has, or making up for their lackluster loadout. I can understand if a group is trying to get out of a raid and they don't have an Electric or Nature dps handy for example on the adds of SG E lb, but in most cases people just use them as a crutch. I find it ridiculous they are allowed outside of the Anniversary event.
    • Like x 4
  7. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    I completely agree with you and your viewpoint here.
  8. Batrederik Dedicated Player

    More like “We have sacked their strenght*

    Balance in PvE isn't so important, how can you tell if there is a balancing problem??? I mean PvE, it's mostly about a single aspect (X is doing more DPS than Y), so, and it's completely mathematic:
    People can calculate what's good and what's bad.
    That's it.
    • Like x 1
  9. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"


    The outcome of stats revamp had entirely nothing to do with the testers, stats revamp was rushed out months before it was ready. There is still lengthy list of issues that were reported during stats revamp that are still of the exact same concern today like the issues surrounding gadgets stealth dovetails. Also there were plenty of issues reported on test like the Gorilla Beach Ball exploit that were mentioned weeks before stats revamp went live but still weren't addressed in time and made their way to live server.

    Qwa bombs are a moot point because they have been used in every possible rendition of content since their introduction, from raids to damage comps to survival mode. They are a finite resource and if players wan't to blow through stacks of them just in order to clear elite content, then whatever lol just means they will have to wait another year to try and replenish, they only work on non boss level npc's and deal a ever decreasing amount of damage to an add to the point where only the first 3 or 4 bombs deal realistic damage.
    • Like x 2
  10. TheLastSuperman Well-Known Player

    My point is they should be clamped in the few things they are simply op in, when you pop one and the health of the boss in stabilizer drops by 70-80% that's just oversight that needs to be corrected.
  11. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    I just pissed myself laughing
    • Like x 1
  12. gemii Dedicated Player


    You shouldnt have to do this though. You shouldn’t have to have separate armories like that just because electric is weak on single target it should be more balanced. I thought it was all about choosing playstyles you LIKE not choosing things because something else isn’t good enough. I know might dps who also have precision based armories for certain situations but they don’t actually enjoy the aspect of using weapons..
    • Like x 2
  13. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Because its 100% completely useless and has never been needed or required EVER even when neo venom boost wasn't even a supercharge and is just there to justify the damage % increase being less than other powers like circuit breaker because of these neo side effects.
  14. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I found the defence buff to be far and away the most useful aspect of it, actually. I cannot even tell you how many times it’s saved my skin and besides, it’s FUN to have an opportunity to go absolutely ballistic on the enemies without having to fear for your own safety. Remember what fun is? :(
    • Like x 1
  15. Yaiba Committed Player

    I just saw you in Chaos Gotham :p
  16. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Yeah, I’m gathering my magic balls... no wait, that came out wrong :p
    • Like x 2
  17. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    It hasn't saved you, that's what a healer and a tank is for. You aren't some unkillable force using neo-venom, that is just how you are envisioning it. Rage and Earth DPS go ballistic in melee dps every single raid yet they don't use neovenom and they survive just as well. Supercharges are purposefully weaker when they have extra abilities tacked on that aren't needed. Tranquil Pool is a terrible shield sc for water because it has a healing element to it which isn't needed, where a group sc is more useful.
    • Like x 2
  18. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Maybe in ObsidianChillLand you always have a quality tank and healer at your beck and call 24/7 but in actual DCUO some of us have to make do with what we can get sometimes. Maybe those dps do already melee but they have to be careful. It’s super fun NOT having to be cautious for a few moments while venom is active. Again, fun is a thing. Your counter argument is nothing but data and analysis. Are you a robot? Do we have to be robots to enjoy DCUO now?
  19. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I don’t remember having ever died with Neo-Venom up, although I don’t do elites, only regular. I do also use hard light shield and have OP items and 60 sp in health, maybe that’s why?
  20. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    It lets me play pseudotank with open world bounties, lunge into a group of raid adds without a care. I can’t do those things without it. :(
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