Asking For It

Discussion in 'Joker’s Funhouse (Off Topic)' started by Lugo, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Lugo Well-Known Player

    Somewhere along the way this turned into a rant, sorry. You're probably better off not wasting your time since it'll probably get deleted anyway. TLDR: I haven't liked this game in a long time.

    So I was recently banned for criticizing the devs and their decisions, mostly about how they exploit their players with predatory loot boxes. Between that and mods straight up deleting threads asking for a fix to the game, it seems the mods have taken a more authoritarian approach to their players/customers. This isn't surprising.

    So I guess we're supposed to send our complaints to the team so they can tell us to BLOW IT OUT YOUR A- fixes coming Soon.

    Anyway, I can't bring myself to play this game for more than a few hours a year and I don't care if I get banned for criticizing the devs. I don't remember exactly what I said but I ended up with the most notifications I've ever gotten with the post that got me banned. I wish I could've seen what all the commotion was but oh well.

    So again, loot boxes are terrible. Loot boxes are incredibly lazy. Loot boxes are exploitative and predatory. Loot boxes are gambling.

    I've seen some posts blaming the players or blaming "whales" for loot boxes. Please don't do this if you have before. Loot boxes are designed to exploit players and get them chasing after those rewards. They're especially designed for those few "whales" who will drop hundreds on them. This isn't the player's fault, we all have our vices, our weaknesses, things we do that might not be healthy for us. Please don't blame any player for being targeted and used by lazy game devs who want a quick buck more than they want to make a fun and exciting game.

    The low tier content is dead. PVP has been abandoned. Gotham has been rolled out a million times. How many episodes have used the same old maps with new enemies in them? They can create a million time capsules but when is the next power coming, something that's actually exciting? The next big city that isn't Gotham or Metropolis?

    A lot of us are paying customers. I know I've given more than I should have to this game. WE keep the lights on. WE keep the game alive. There would be no DCUO without US. But when you don't like the direction the game is headed in, the game you and I are keeping alive, you can't even openly discuss that with other players. It's ridiculous and pitiful and disrespectful. If you can't take the criticism then maybe start listening to your players? This is just crazy.

    And in return for all the money and years of our lives we give to this game, all the devs can give us are lazy DLCs, PREDATORY LOOT BOXES, CR skips for BRAND NEW PLAYERS so they don't have to do literally anything and more ways to get rewarded for not playing the game.

    Replay badges (somewhat), loot boxes full of gear, feats, SPs, literal CR skips for new players. It's just sad. And even though we could have way better than this, a lot of you will say just be quiet and thankful for what they give us. It's like a lot of you don't even want this game to be good.

    This game has so much wasted potential. In a time where comics and nostalgia and pop culture and streaming and e-sports and gaming have dominated the mainstream there are like 10 guys who even knows what DCUO is. But if I even hint that the devs would rather go the easy route for quick bucks than put in the work to make a legendary MMO with a truly massive population and exciting content, I'm the one who's wrong?

    Anyway I guess that's my 200 cents. I hope somebody can read it loooooool byyyyyeeeeeee <3
  2. El cana New Player

    Totalmente de acuerdo con ese comentario, y ademas me quedo con la frase "el DCUO somos nosotros"... Deberia haber un foro aparte del juego para hablar de lo que quieras libremente, si los jugadores se plantan un mes sin jugar ni pagar legendario, seguramente habria cambios o DCUO se iria a la quiebra, del juego free to play que decian queda la cámara de los regalos para hacer gratis...cápsulas y artefactos es el negocio de esta empresa, antiguamente con la otra empresa el juego era bastante mejor y mas completo, poco a poco se lo estan cargando..
  3. Brit Loyal Player

    I try to keep an open mind regarding everything. There are always two sides. I do hear what you are saying. I will provide counterpoints.

    The first point that I want to touch on is the CR Skip. You seem to have taken issue with the CR Skip solely because it is available to all players equally. You express some sort of desire to require it to be exclusive to those whom have already reached those levels. I understand your reasoning; you believe that without having leveled a character up through every tier in the slow manner, a player will lack the appropriate skills to compete at the endgame.

    I used to believe that too. Then I took an impartial look at the leveling system.

    What does a new player learn from 1-30? Very little. The game has virtually no tutorial. The 1-30 leveling never actually bothers to teach people their roles. They will lack key abilities clear up until level 30, which means they won't actually be practicing and refining a proper DPS rotation. The leveling from 1-30 is a solo open world experience that does nothing to prepare them for an instanced, group-centric game.

    How about post-30? Now they can finally start grouping; surely this is the point when they're supposed to learn their roles and understand how the game works. Except, it doesn't. Instead, that low level group content is at least half-filled with high level players who could solo the entire instance, just mowing through, ignoring mechanics, and carrying the player to their rewards. Random Queue a Batcave or Fortress and you can just walk along with the group and do nothing but right-mouse-click; you'll still be victorious with zero wipes, because somebody there is going to be 260+ and killing bosses in a matter of seconds. Not only will you win with no understanding of what is going on, but you'll probably earn at least half of the feats as well.

    Those low levels do NOT teach new players anything about the gameplay. They are entirely useless. The player will not actually start learning anything until they get far enough along that their performance at least remotely starts to matter. Let's say 40-50CR lower than the endgame, hypothetically. Which just so happens to be where the Character Advancement skip takes you to.

    So if the new players gain nothing from playing through that content, then the question is, what benefit is it to let them skip ahead? Surely it's at least a neutral decision. Except that's not true either. A player who plays through that low level content, horribly wrong, and is successful, will spend months learning and reinforcing bad habits. When everybody else can just facetank the boss, why the heck should a new Tank be worried about pulling adds off of a teammate. When nobody ever dies, why would that Controller ever watch for a rally or deliver a shield. When the scoreboard has your DPS as 7th on the list as a DPS player, lagging behind the Tank and Healer, and you're still winning, your rotation must be fine and you're doing perfectly great for your level. Skipping that stuff places a new player into a situation where they can immediately see errors and consequences, and they can start to learn. The CR gives you the same unskilled players we already see, but brings them in at a point where they are less set in their ways and hopefully more open to direction. If their first 5 experiences with raids see them get kicked, eventually they will start listening, as opposed to if they played that way for months with no consequence and then suddenly found themselves being treated poorly while they're just doing the same thing they've always done, a situation that typically causes them to blame others and not themselves.

    Last, the CR Skip provides an important benefit for new players. The lower-game content is empty. The endgame is where the players congregate. If your friend invites you to play the game and you try it out, you do not want to have to wait six months before you are able to play with your friend. And if you do not know anyone else who plays and you are forced to sit through those long-abandoned queues of low level content, many players will quit the game without ever realizing that there are actually tons of players, just not at the level that they are. Without the CR Skip, players leave before they get the chance to actually see what the game has to offer and really enjoy it. The CR Skip is a good thing. It lets you slip ahead to a point 3-4 Episodes behind the endgame, so you can start learning where there is some challenge, but with some amount of higher level babysitting still there to help. It's a good place for the learning curve. "Skip Straight to 290" would be bad right now, but a skip to 180, 210, or even 230, that wouldn't be a problem at all.

    As for Time Capsules, I get it. You ranted enough and labeled them as gambling. Okay. They are RNG. So is every single boss loot table in the game. It's "Gambling" when I buy Replay Badges to run content again hoping for a rare drop. Yes. It's all random. The question is... so what? RNG is how MMOs retain an artificial longevity by getting players to repeat content or chase after rarer items. If you want a game with zero RNG, you'll have to play some sort of fixed content story game.

    But you don't care about the randomness. You care about the fact that it's in a box, instead of on a boss's table, which is entirely irrelevant. You care because there are styles in there that you want, and you don't want to pay for them, and it's not good enough that they're tradable. You might not realize this, since you admit you only play for a couple of hours per year, but there is a Stabilizer Event that you can run daily so that you can open over 100 Time Capsules entirely for free every year just through daily play. So you didn't get the random item you wanted and now you're angry about it. The fact is, nothing in the time capsules actually matters. You need only about 60% of the total feats in order to max your role stat; if you skip the whopping 4 skill points per year that come from the Time Capsule collections, you won't even notice and you'll still be fully prepared to run any content. You can balance that out just by doing the Seasonal event instead.

    Lastly, yes, the development team is correct. Your threads break the Terms of Service. You put things up here that you're not allowed to. They took down the threads, but you reposted them. They sent you warnings, and you ignored their warnings and continued doing it. They suspended you, and you still refuse to stop. If you do not like playing a game that has rules, then you should not be playing a multiplayer game.

    Personally, I hope that you rediscover your love for the game, see the error of your ways, and learn to follow the rules. But if you really dislike it so much, then I hope you find something else that you can enjoy instead, rather than continuing to violate the rules here. When you break the Terms of Service, you don't just disrespect the development team and the game, but you also disrespect each and every one of us in the community who abides by those same rules. And there are too many good people here who don't deserve to be treated that way.
    • Like x 3
  4. Lugo Well-Known Player

    had 2 delete some stuff cause the post got too long whoops

    You're right. And this should have been addressed years ago. I somewhat understand how DCUO could launch with 0 tutorial on how to play the roles in the game or build effective loadouts. But we are how many years in and the 1-30 does absolutely nothing to prepare new players for what the game ACTUALLY is - or at least what the game is supposed to be. This is what I mean by lazy game devs who don't listen to their players. We've been saying forever now that 1-30 should be teaching players how to play both their roles and how to best support the team. You're right that that section of the game is useless, I don't see it as a justification for CR skips though.

    You're right again. 1-30 teaches you nothing about how actual players play the game and neither does endgame. An old, old critique or maybe conspiracy I've had of the devs is that they don't even play this game. It was something I came to a long time ago while watching Spytle play HL. He didn't know what clipping was and it just clicked that the staff doesn't know how to play their game. But I don't keep up with the streams any more so who knows.

    Anyway, I said all that to say that if the devs were seasoned players, they'd know to be preparing players for raids from the very beginning. How hard is it to put in trolling objectives into 1-30 missions where you have to debuff and dump to pass the mission? Instead of having the game teach players to throw PoT, they just made all the powers PoT lol. I don't have a problem with that, it was just funny. Why are there not tank or healer objectives in 1-30 missions? In low tier content?

    You say that because this game absolutely fails to teach players anything they can actually use to thrive in the game, this is a reason they should just skip all of it. A better solution would be to get the devs to improve the game, which is what I always advocate for, not to just work with the scraps we have. I learned to fire tank and it was a TRIAL BY FIRE (lol) until I went to the forums and figured out what I was doing wrong. But why is it up to the players to teach other players? Helping other players is very good, definitely. But why should we pick up the slack when the devs fail? Aren't we already paying them to give us a good game??

    I agree that low tier content is useless, but it doesn't justify a CR skip. Either way those players are clueless and getting kicked until they figure something out or just continuing to be carried. I prefer solutions, not workarounds.

    Workarounds, never solutions. The low tier content is dead for an obvious reason. Have you ever invited a friend to play this game? I have invited a few and they all say the same thing. They think the game is boring and ugly. It's pretty ugly, but I know it was fun for me once.

    I believe that if the devs focused on making the game feel fun, new and exciting, maybe players would stick around and the low tier content wouldn't be dead.

    It's insane that instead of looking for solutions and interesting ways to keep new players, the devs are LITERALLY skipping over all the work and ignoring most of the game. They are essentially allowing the foundation to rot.

    You had a streak going for a minute. So here's where you're wrong. Loot boxes and actual gameplay are 2 completely different thinks, they might even be opposites.

    In both cases, the rewards are random-ish, sure. But when it comes to actual gameplay, you are actually PLAYING THE GAME. THIS is my problem with loot boxes. This isn't a slot machine, this is supposed to be an MMO where you are supposed to actually PLAY THE GAME for your rewards. And even then, the rewards you get from that content is limited, they stuff a million things in those loot boxes. And on top of that, you earn those rewards by playing the game, not just by throwing money at it.

    If you really want to tell me that beating the boss is irrelevant then why do you even play this game at all??? If the entire point of an MMO is irrelevant, why even have an MMO at all??? REALLY. WHAT kind of argument is that????

    You're saying that how you get the reward is irrelevant as long as you get it. And that's literally my problem with this game and the devs. I did not start this game, play it for years and spend my money because the gameplay was irrelevant the entire time. I actually liked playing the game, it was the entire point of playing the game, believe it or not.

    Loot boxes, on the other hand, are LITERALLY just gambling. You buy stabilizers (I know you don't have to but these loot boxes aren't made for players who don't splurge on stabilizers), you bet them on the box and you spin the wheel. You hit the jackpot or you don't. In fact, I believe there are certain states that recognize loot boxes as gambling. This is not gameplay. These loot boxes are only intended to take money from the weak-willed. These loot boxes are designed specifically to exploit vulnerable people for money. So not only are they wrong morally, they are also lazy non-content to hold people over with rewards that should be won by actually playing the game. And no, that stabilizer daily is not playing the game.

    Dude I don't even know why you'd sit here and make up an entire scenario and try to use it against me LOL. The styles are the only thing left that I like about this game, sure. But where are you getting any of that from? Are you just assuming XD?? I don't care about getting styles from TCs at all.

    The problem isn't that you don't need loot boxes. The problem is that the devs have been making it easier and easier to NOT PLAY THE GAME and still get the rewards, but for a price. A lot of you are OK with this. Us players are the ones who've put our support behind this game and instead of prioritizing what we want and what's best for the games, the devs would rather neglect their responsibilities and chase after quick bucks. They're pretty much just using this game as a way to squeeze money out of people instead of as a way to give players a great experience. And these loot boxes are the worst example of this. These loot boxes are complete trash and are morally wrong.

    I don't care that you feel like nothing in the TCs matter. There are still plenty of styles, feats and SPs in them, rewards that should be behind actual fun content that you can actually play, not some box.

    And again, these loot boxes are made to exploit players who would rather drop the cash on them instead of playing the game. Do you not see the problem with that?


    I didn't make any thread that got taken down actually. So, wrong again. I got suspended for posting in those threads, not for making any or reposting any threads. I don't even know where you got this from.

    This is my biggest problem with you people. You attack the players for wanting the game to be better instead of even questioning the devs' intent or decisions. You will take absolutely any disrespect from the devs and thank them instead of demanding that your money gets put to good use. All of you are backward-thinking fools.

    I just realized that you've made less sense as the post went on, lol, impressive. If you think a rule that says you shouldn't openly criticize the devs WHO YOU ARE PAYING for the decisions they make in a game that YOU ARE KEEPING ALIVE, then I feel truly sorry for you. How do you people morph into such obedient bootlic- never mind.
  5. Chia Death Well-Known Player

    Well, thanks for letting us know how you feel.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    • Like x 1
  6. FoolsFire Devoted Player

    I imagined this being said by T.O. Morrow'
    • Like x 1
  7. WilderMidnight Steadfast Player

    if youve ever worked in a creative industry you'll know that artists and designers hate suggestions. They hate criticism. Egos are enormous and out of control. Chances are they make fun of all these complaints and issues players have with the game.

    unfortunately you can also tell when an artist or designer lacks passion or just phones it in so its a bad cycle. it usually takes losing a few jobs and some experience for people to realize they're the ones working for they're customers and without them they're nothing.
  8. Lugo Well-Known Player

    It seems like this is a part of it, like the passion was lost for some reason. And I'm sure everyone who works on the game thinks they know better than the people who actually have been playing it for years lol even if they themselves don't play it as much.

    It frustrates me a lot though. It feels like DCUO missed a huge opportunity. It feels like the devs sold out for quick cash rather than focusing on making the game better. I feel like a lot of players have millions of ideas and improvements to offer but the devs would rather find another quick way to get money than to do hard work.

    Unfortunately, I do disagree that there will be any learning or realizations from any of this. Everyone on the forums seems to worship the devs and never step out of line and take whatever they can get instead of questioning anything ever. And when someone does question anything, the players are the first to jump out and defend the devs to the death.

    The devs will simply get by with the cash they can squeeze out of us until they can't anymore and instead of this amazing MMO we could have, DCUO will eventually just fade away without a sound.
  9. QueenB1988 New Player

  10. Lugo Well-Known Player

    I forgot I posted this. How did you find this? o_O
    Look how salty I was in this thread LOL. Amazing.

    Anyway, all I have to say about this is that I know Mepps is useless when trying to get the devs to listen to you. I don't blame Mepps for anything lol. And I don't think the problem is with players not being civil because most the players on this forum, from what I see, will take absolutely anything and everything the devs will give them and never complain or criticize or even entertain the idea that maybe we could have better things, a better game. They mostly cheer and clap and thank the devs for bringing us to Metropolis or Gotham again, for dropping 800 lootboxes to prey on players again. It's like these players have some type of secret pact I'm not in on? :eek:

    But because I don't play much, I don't know how serious artifacts are. But if all it takes is strengthening artifacts, which I've heard is another way the devs will leech money out of you through breakthroughs, then that's a whole nother issue for me, a whole nother rant. But who would care? "It is what it is," the mantra of the beaten dogs.

    I guess I'm just frustrated with capitalism (as always) and how these capitalist vultures prey on their player base to get rich, and frustrated that a game I was obsessed with is a cash grab operation now. But because so many players are so used to this system of having their resources extracted from them and getting scraps in return, nobody even sees the problem. Most of these players either don't care about the issues or aren't willing to do anything about it. Somehow we're just accepting that most of this game is dead because nobody wants to play it, somehow we're just accepting that even people who might want to play can just skip the dead content, and somehow we're paying these devs and this company to not fix any problems that have been around for years. But then I'm the bad guy. :rolleyes:

    P.S. wow it sucks that you lost your super old account that you'd worked on forever because of one small mistake. I really hate that lol. It's too bad the devs aren't understanding and don't care who you are or what might've happened. Maybe if they extended you the same sympathy you extended them, instead of just seeing you as another wallet to drain, you'd be able to have your old account back that you worked so hard on.
  11. Tokens210 Well-Known Player

    im not trying to sound like im coming at you to try and start an argument but some of the things you mentioned weve had answers for for years now

    they are limited to expanding the game, that why all dlc are small areas outside the main game, they tried to make changes to the base game once before and literally broke the whole game, took months for them to figure it out, also had i believe it was christmas deco stuck for months cause it had overwritten the base games looks

    we were told back around year 2 or 3 of the game that the games size was becoming an issue on top of the base game basically being locked out, so they had no choice but to reuse many assets and areas and just deco them differently, or they could pretty much no longer make dlc, if you noticed the 1 player Wonderverse mission is the league of assassins alert map, just deco different

    loot boxes arnt required at all, like you dont need to really open any of them unless you really want the styles or most SP, etc etc and you also dont need to flat out pay for them, prom boxes can be opened if your legendary which comes with many other benefits then opening them boxes, and time caps have a daily mission to allow you to stack stabilizers to open them which are dailies so it may take a long time it can still be done for free

    CR skip is a strange place, if they removed CR skip the game would loose way to many players, if i were a new player and logged to see that i needed to play this game for like YEARS to catch up id be gone right away, they also have new ppl trying to join based on certain dlc and they dont want those players to then find out they cannot access it, you also need to pay to skip CR unless you catch it during a free skip time

    i honestly dunno with Cr skip theres another thread about it suggesting maybe require the character to be a level 30 before they can skip, cause levels 1-30 have always been referred to as the tutorial cause it doesnt need any money spent, it gives you missions to show you how to use r and d, bases, vault, bank, mailbox, broker, and playing thru the 30 levels lets you lean your powerset and role and if you even like it or not before putting in all the time

    Replay badges have always been in game, cause the point isnt to play the game all day everyday, they want ya to spread your time around and such, your not forced to ever use a replay badge, noone has a gun to your head, they make the content and intend for it to last months before new content, the fact ppl spend money and blow thru it has nothing to do with the game literally happens in all games


    as far as the mention of esports and streamers, i could honestly care less, ppl have been making videos or guides for the game and others for years, what them ppl are doing really doesnt matter, esports could literally die tomorrow and it would have zero effect on games that are good on their own, not to mention the fact that this game launch with terrible PR, still has terrible PR but ppl know about it