Artifacts and the absence of balance.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Kanmaru, May 7, 2022.

  1. Quantum Rising Committed Player

    Tbh I've been doing this for awhile now with different artifacts. And yes; you are right certain combinations are bordering on OP status but let's be truthful in this case it's likely the issue is more the fact that precision needs to be looked at more than anything else. I've been dps'ing in support role with nearly all power sets. I doubt your friend would have been as successful if he was might based. I've experimented with both might and precision spec'd while in support role. Precision is much easier to pull off and numbers wise much much bigger when it comes to the boards.
  2. Slow Burn Active Player

    I completely agree. I recently asked about "alternate progression" in another thread.
  3. Slow Burn Active Player

    I disagree. Most Artefacts exist to bolster existing playstyles, and a few revive old ones that weren't otherwise viable. They don't create anything that didn't already exist.

    Artefacts don't create anything new, is my point.
  4. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Eye of Gemini turned Healers and Tanks into supercharge generators. Claw of Aelkhund created buff troll playstyle. Clarion is making tanks into backup healers.
    • Like x 5
  5. Slow Burn Active Player

    Trolls using buffs and debuffs was always a thing. That's enabling, not creating.

    Eye of Gemini is, if I am not mistaken, widely considered to be a mistake. So much so that if I am correct there was a supercharge parse to limit it? You are right that it did enable a new playstyle. Which then had to be nerfed. And it is still heavily used, despite that. That's not a playstyle - that's starting to look like a requirement for some content.

    Clarion is, I admit, one I have not looked at. So is it viable for all tanks? Because I'm Fire, so I already concentrate on Resto.
  6. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Without artifacts trolls can only buff weapons. Claw of Aelkhund opened up a completely new playstyle that doesn't involve being a complete battery.

    It's highly optional considering some powers have to pick up an iconic supercharge just to get full use out of it. I don't use a supercharge on my heal or tank and no one's ever asked me to.

    I hear it's viable in regular content, better off using something else in elite.
    • Like x 2
  7. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    A valid opinion, which I fully support.

    I don't get why people are attempting to troll this, especially those playing Might. The difference between the top & bottom Might rotations is only a few %, when everything is matched and we arent factoring in swaps or movement modes.

    Precision is still a touch imbalanced IMO, but that's largely to do with the state the weapons have been left in, not the powersets themselves.
    • Like x 2
  8. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    And here we go with the nerf precision lol. My might dps has higher damage than my prec main. I constantly out dps prec dps on both my might dps and one of them is atomic lol.

    Prec looks stronger because there’s only 2 viable weapons so everyone uses the same weapons. Look up any YouTube and everyone has an almost copy paste loadout of everyone else. This means that the amount of people doing bad loadouts and rotations are less. However with might you have a lot more combination possibilities so the number of potential bad loadouts is higher. Look up might dps guides and very few are the same. The amount of bad loadouts on YouTube means people are copying bad loadouts.

    All these “might is weaker than prec” are just because people don’t know how to test it just don’t want to test. So they go into the mob mentality and cry what they hear others crying about.
    • Like x 2
  9. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    You are completely wrong. With the introduction of source shard and mercy any power can run a pet build other than just sorcery and earth. Sorcery and earth pet builds weren’t even a competitive things until source shard.

    Trolls used to only be power trolls until the claw came out. So that is literally a new play style.

    If you want to you can use quislet and soul cloak to boost the amount of sc you gain and in turn make a sc focused build.
    • Like x 2
  10. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    Exactly. Base might powers are not too far off. Just about everyone agrees, for example, that water is weak as dps. I have a water character that I heal and dps with, it does good. Certainly it's not top power, but each power isn't designed to work the same, and people don't factor in the strengths of certain powers, to achieve a 'close' balance. Electricity certainly isn't the best burst damage, but it's King of damage over time.

    Any "imbalance" is due to artifact selections, and everything else at our disposal, but it's not an imbalance between powers.

    Yes, precision needs work. None of the weapons are balanced well, and no nerf is needed: rather all weapons should be brought up to par, or as with the base powers being close, they should be brought a lot closer, with respect to playing to their strengths.
    • Like x 1
  11. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Funny thing is that if all combos were brought up to par or within range of brawl and flurry shot than you would see a lot more bad prec dps lol. This is because options make for players not knowing where to focus. Just like with might. If every power only had 4-6 viable powers and every other power was complete trash than you’d see better might dps because everyone would know what to run.
    • Like x 2
  12. ALB Dedicated Player

    Was your friend running event content? Clamped? How long did it take? It's a lot of variables.
    In the new content? I've out dps in full tank gear, but the usual 12-15 min raid took 22 mins. I understood I didn't do anything special, the dps were just bad
  13. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    Not sure we'd see a lot "more" bad precision dps', but we would certainly see a lot more variety of weapon style bad precision dps' lol. A decent rework though, would give options to those who do know what they're doing. Or even rework all weapons to combo into either brawling or bow lol (not seriously).
  14. PickArole Well-Known Player

    I think it's actually pretty well balanced myself. I've beat out all kinds of dps, precision, might based all the same. Artifacts all at 250 and sp higher than mine. Not all are the same, but some people don't know how to match arts and loadouts for their toons. I'm still learning myself, so this is NOT facts, just my experience with the game.
  15. GregTheFarmer Active Player

    It must be really nice to live in your world.

    Also its your opinion, but its not a fact.
  16. GregTheFarmer Active Player

    So I think your misapprehension is that the revamp was about balance, but thats what they said, but its not the truth. I will admit after the revamp came out but before artifacts and most of the bugs were ironed was the closest to balance the powers ever were (but that was a extraordinarily low bar to reach) The purpose of the revamp was to correct a mistake that everyone said was a mistake from the get go (CR Differential). Then in that process they took away people stats by a VERY large amount. Then they sold them back to you in the form of artifacts. The only saving grace of artifacts and the one and only defense I have of them...they open up new play styles. But they're P2W af, imbalanced as all get out.
  17. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and fact is, there's plenty of people who share my opinion. With each little fix to powers we get, we get a little closer. But remember, not all powers are created equal with their intentions: electricity's strength is in DoT, not burst, for example. Knowing the strengths of a power, makes the difference.
  18. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    last I checked, we're all in the same timeline & world. I might be wrong though.

    I think I've found one of the causes for this opinion & misconception. On my evening peruse through the cesspit that is YouTube, I happened to stumble across a semi-recent video, in which the guy tries to share a Precision loadout for every Prec power.
    Every power, including gadgets & mental, is setup like this:
    1. tornado pull
    2. weapon buff
    3. phase dodge
    4. dervish
    5. nvb
    6. rsk
    artifacts : grim, strat & trans
    I'm not even going to address the facepalm of that approach but for those that don't play precision, might find this video and think 'if every powertype is like this, and I get beat by these players, NERF ALL THESE THINGS.'
    I understand I'm generalising an opinion, but look at the amount of prec players that run phase dodge or dervish or both without ever experimenting with other abilities, I feel that opinion has some weight to it. Similar with artifact selection.

    IMO, there isn't a good resource for Precision players at all, not at individual powertype level nor game level. The loadout above, even though is ubiquitous across powers, will always be outperformed by a precision player that has put more thought into their artifact & ability selection. Very few content creators for this game as is, and it's based around superpowers, so I can see why prec guides have gone this way.
    Yeah, we have fewer players with bad loadouts, but we have way less work put on finding the very best either.
  19. CCPONCHO Well-Known Player

    I agree that might is not as bad as people are making it, but I must ask, why is all the top leagues/best players on the server is all prec? I know most of that is coming down to the gadgets cheese with the multiple supers with gemini, but even other powers you mostly see prec combined with it.
  20. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    And most top might players are munitions. It’s not because of how strong said play style is. It’s because of how easy it is to find loadouts that work. Munitions is the easiest power in the game. Yet I constant out dps munitions and prec dps on my HL. HL is thought to be weak by a lot of players yet it’s actually strong but hard to do. That’s where it lies. Information.

    I made a comment before. If all weapon combos were brought up to a near playable level to brawling shuriken and dw flurry shot than there would be a lot more bad prec dps out there. Right now prec is considered broken because everyone know the weapon to use. That’s because every other weapon is a noticeable damage loss. But if all other weapons were made viable than there wouldn’t be a cookie cutter set up. And this means more players would have to actually try out different things. Some would work while others wouldn’t. This would mean more set ups which means more bad set ups.

    Since there is a lack of options, as long as the only option is good than everyone can be decent. On the other hand if all might abilities were made bad except for 6 powers for might than you’d see every might dps using the same thing and you’d see might being better.
    • Like x 1