Artifact Swapping (my opinion)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by MrSuperman, Jul 20, 2022.

  1. MrSuperman Dedicated Player

    I could honestly care less how many artifacts you can swap out, as long as the devs don’t start building content around it. I refuse to sacrifice my play style to look at the menu (during a boss fight) to swap out artifacts.

    Please and Thank You.
    • Like x 14
  2. Belthazur Dedicated Player

    In MY Opinion NOTHING in your Menu (Including Artifacts) Should be Swap-able During Combat...PERIOD.
    Devs Need to Make this a Thing.
    • Like x 13
  3. Iconic Simulation Loyal Player

    I agree with both of you. I don't think it should be allowed. Its becoming a toxic unnatural meta. I think a 4th slot should be added, and have artifacts locked while in combat, just like roles.

    One guy was telling me its selfish to not allow players to artifact swap, and I told him; its selfish to uphold a meta thats not intended and breaks content. Its also selfish to then impose and expect others to run and conform to it (looking at the DPS expecting trolls to carry all the buff Artifacts and buff both stats, with mandatory swapping, etc.).

    So no. They need to patch this. They devs have said they are gonna see how this plays out before they decide if they wanna do anything. They did the same thing for the hologram trinket and I hope they do the same for this. So if it becomes a big enough problem, it will probably be changed.

    • Like x 13
  4. Brit Loyal Player

    I oppose gear being able to be changed during combat (with the exception of the Armory swap cooldown).

    But I am VERY in favor of Artifacts being allowed to be traded between characters. Right now, many of us consider alts to simply be unplayable because Artifacts are not feasible beyond the main character. I would level far more artifacts if they were useable for more than one character, encouraging me to get all roles instead of locking myself down with just my Healer set.

    Everyone is entitled to their own playstyle. I won't tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. The goal is just to have fun. But I'm not going to stop mid-combat and juggle artifacts on a power by power basis.
    • Like x 3
  5. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    The whole “it’s not intended” argument is completely out the window. Mepps has already stated that while arts swapping isn’t something they designed to work that was it’s also not something that they currently have an issue with. If it were not intended they would’ve patched it since they are clearly aware of it.
    • Like x 3
  6. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Don't complain when new players don't stick around or perform to your expectations then if you keep allowing tac-swapping. SP alone is already pretty overwhelming for new players or even returning players.

    Heck, I have to wonder if the convoluted Ally menu was meant to prevent tac-swapping there.
    • Like x 6
  7. Cyclonic Dedicated Player

    It's painfully obvious that the only reason people have an issue with it being corrected is that they like having a little edge over others.

    If someone told me that they actually enjoyed going into their inventory 26 times in a single boss fight... I would have to call b/s.

    This should have been dealt with years ago. Nobody should feel obligated to spend half a raid in their inventory to please everyone.
    • Like x 13
  8. Monkeyboy Committed Player

    So, you don't agree with both. The OP supports it as long as it doesn't affect content design. You agree with the 2nd person who is against it. This META is one playstyle. Not mandatory! Honestly, there's enough people crying about artifact swapping, just make a league and run content. If your League or groups want players that swap, conform or find a like minded group/s. It's a playstyle choice that pushes their toons limits. Why is it a problem beyond having the ability to have multiple leveled artifacts? Scoreboard chasing?
    • Like x 2
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    Actually this is entirely not true.

    I support tac swapping, possibly not to the extent the sweaty try hards are doing it, but tac swapping in items and gear has always been a thing since the start of the game.

    Locking the inventory is nonsensical and swapping items is entirely appropriate and strategical, ranging from a casual swap of something to popping a supply or orbital in when the need might arise.

    This can happen a lot even in support role.

    The solution to tac swapping isn't to lock the inventory and it isn't to introduce a fourth slot either. introducing a fourth slot doesn't even fix the issue it further enhances balance issues.

    All that needs to be done is to put a swap cool down on the third artifact slot of say 20-30 seconds and the whole thing stops, right, there dead in its tracks, while preserving casual swapping of items, which was never an issue for anyone prior to the copious option of artifacts.
    • Like x 1
  10. Proxystar #Perception

    As long as content doesn't expect tac swapping - the biggest risk to this is burn checks (expecting players to have the insane DPS output of a tac swapping sweat-lord) then happiness remains.

    If people want to be sweaty on their own time, all power to them, otherwise see fix above if it's so much of a drama.
    • Like x 1
  11. ALB Dedicated Player

    The problem with DC is they only fix things that they can make money off of. Tac swapping is definitely cheese, but that's not the problem. The problem is, DC content is based around it. The devs listen to a certain few who DM them and most times they base boss HP based on that.
    The 1st "Save the Universe", one of those guys said something on the forums about one of the bosses health in throne elite I believe. The dev came right in and basically said "boss health to low? Sayless". I would bet that were all elec/gad prec users, swapping artifacts, and with a healer using 3 EOG spam SC.
    I don't think the devs do it on purpose, I just don't think they ask enough questions about what was what in the content
    • Like x 12
  12. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    How many times has something in-game popped up and the automatic response to player concerns has been "if it becomes a problem we'll look into it"?
    • Like x 4
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    And has the issue become a bigger problem since the statement was made by Mepps, or is it just the same people angry with tac swapping unhappy with the answer...
  14. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Its literally the same people complaining about something their not even mandated to do. you can get through kct and tswe at exceptional times wihtout art swapping. If you got 20 milled by the end of the content its literally whatever , but did you get through it tho? Good , roll credits

    The arts shouldn't have to be locked because of a few bruised egos coming in 2nd place to someone willing to do the absolute most just to shave a few extra seconds off the run time
    • Like x 1
  15. Henoshock Well-Known Player

    I agree with OP, what others do or don't shouldn't be my concern. As long as most of the content is designed so that anyone can beat it.

    Elite content and feats? It's fine to design it so that you need 3 actually useful artifacts, possibly even have to be at 200.

    Elite plus content and feats? I would be okay to design the hardest content around players being able to and going to art swap (thought maybe not full sweat swapping). As this should push the players, the players should push the limits of the game.

    There's nothing currently that requires you to swap artifacts, and I hope it stays that way. At the same time I also hope we'll be allowed to continue swapping artifacts. I don't see how this hurts others, except possibly toxic players who won't run with non-swappers (which is a separate issue).

    I don't even think burn checks are really an issue, since swapping generally incurs a small dip in damage for better sustained DPS due to opening inventory. For example, the check window for Omega-Level Pardon is fairly short, so swapping can be difficult. Proma's Anguish is doable without swapping (though typically done with EoG stacking, which is also a separate issue). Speed feats generally rely more on not wiping than having super good burn.

    The current content (and most content) is mostly designed around survivability, which I think is a good choice. That itself is a mild deterrent to excessive swapping, as you constantly have to watch out for mechanics. As long as there's no excessive pay-to-win ways to circumvent or mitigate the need to survive.
  16. zNot Loyal Player

    Exactly this does anyone really believe that the endgame elite players swap for fun? Or because it actually gives them a big gap between other groups who dont? Lets be real here its game breaking and needs to be locked.
    • Like x 3
  17. zNot Loyal Player

    I remember that You mean the throne raid which ares was only beaten by the groups using art swap,EOG etc all meta stuffs and just a simple change of HP nerf afterwards was enough to let many others pass that bossfight which shows how big the damage gap between average elite groups vs meta elite groups is.

    I went in there myself day 1 (didnt pass it) and the boss Ares HP was so high it was ridicilous these meta elite groups damage is as high as that of multiple average elite groups combined and thats not because they are skilled but because they art swap use EOG and other tricks to gain damage and then come to the forums and claim content is easy and expect the devs to scale content based on their OP meta cheese.
    • Like x 4
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    At some point though, those players need to be held accountable for giving that type of feedback, but they're not. They're actually actively being encouraged amongst their peer groups to give feedback like that knowing full well the distortion being created.

    Those players don't care about actual balance they only care about gate keeping people from content so that they can crow more about their own perceived superiority and achievements, so that they can lord them over others in game.

    I don't disagree with that aspect and its a shame when people are given the ability to skew development by perverting feedback through the omission of details, which is what they're often doing, because they'll neglect to mention they're tac swapping and simply come in and post a screenshot of a scoreboard, claim its too easy or worse yet post a video from the perspective of the one person in group not engaging in the tac swapping.

    The developers need to be careful when listening to feedback that suggests something is "too easy" before considering whether a piece of content needs to be buffed or possibly not nerfed.

    This type of thing of course can easily be resolved through modifying the content and not the artifacts, if the people tac swapping then find the content too easy then they could perhaps consider exhibiting a level of 'self control' and just not tac swapping.
    • Like x 5
  19. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    Not that it has been confirmed, but I would be willing to bet that TSW was majorly affected by art swapping during design process.
    The floor mechanics are a good example, in fact first two bosses in general, are particularly punishing to those frequently swapping.

    Regarding the forum topic, I'm against removing swapping, but I'm also against excessive use of the practice. If you need anything more than one swap in/out (DKS or philosophers stone) to maintain your DPS position on the board, then that's a you problem.
    First off:
    - are your main artifacts & loadout optimal for what you are about to attempt? have you compared this with the other DPS? do you need to adjust anything?
    - do you know the troll's configuration/playstyle?
    I try and inspect everyone when joining groups, and at very least, ask what the trolls doing. In my situation, if someone is only running tetra/claw/amulet of rao, I will run cog instead of grim. If they're running Bop, I now know to switch to my pet build. If they're running power harness, I know I can spam a little more, maybe run quislet instead of grim.

    Similarly, swapping more than that as a role is equally problematic, and should be addressed in other ways.
    Why does a troll need to swap 4+ artifacts?
    - is the group configuration optimal for the content/feat you are about to try?
    - is there a source of synergy you aren't gaining from/forgetting about? in either artifacts or allies, and have you discussed this with group?
    Get those two points right and the need for swapping is almost eliminated, unless you want a faster complete, or to top the board.
  20. appocolyps Committed Player

    We know my stance on it but i cant say anything out of fear of being attacked by the same 3 people, but apparently its only myself and znot who dont agree with tac swaps, everyone else is fine with it because there are absolutely no issues with it.......
    • Like x 3