Test Discussion Artifact Reworks 2022

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Ranmaru, Jul 14, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Again. Not saying I want it nerfed to the ground. Not even saying I want it nerfed since I personally don’t know what can be done since nerfing it would cause it not be appealing since it falls back to “why do I want an art for something I’m actively trying to not happen”. But what I am saying is that I know why people are concerned. There IS reason to be concerned.

    As much as some want to deny that content doesn’t change because of arts they do. Look at all the changes that happened because of EoG. If laz becomes to big of a safety net than would things change to add more cheesy mechanics? Again. Just saying I can see why people have concerns
  2. jolaksi Well-Known Player

    In addition, 5 minutes seems so short when we see other cooldowns in artifact tooltip but in reality, in actual gameplay in that 5 minutes so many things happen to an individual person let alone to group.

    Looks like TSWE+ is a common example in this thread when it comes to hard content atm: currently most groups run 4 tanks 1 troll 2 dps and solo healer. Lets say all tanks are using Lazarus. They proc the rage of lazarus, they got healed to 100%, they survived cool. All it takes for one of these tanks to die is one delayed roll or missed lunge or cracks or etc etc. and everyone knows how common these things occur during the fight. (this is just 1st boss btw). In the other hand lets say the healer in that group woke up in the morning and choose to be incompetent, equipped the Lazarus pit, an unlucky attack procced the rage of lazarus, he/she healed himself/herself to safety and right after that 12 seconds boom healer rolled into a crack. No matter how many revives that healer had that can happen and while everything going smoothly that attempt can end up with a wipe. I guess nobody in that group will say "Guys lets wait 5 minutes for lazarus effect shall we?". And think about that "lets wait for cooldown" dialogues for each tank. All that hassle... Not so realistic for a content like this.

    Now people can tell me lazarus is improved the survivability of this TSWE+ group(tanks mostly) WELL thats the who point of this artifact rework but ignoring the ACTUAL gameplay errors in that 5 minutes window and trying to exaggerate the OPness(its not) of lazarus artifact is not very constructive.

    I need to add that the scripted attacks that absolutely need to 1 shot players(reflections, darkseid/grail omega beams etc) needs to be excluded from protection of rage of lazarus effect. They are the main mechanics or auxiliary elements of numerious boss fights. The separation of which scripted attacks/mechanics should one shot and which shouldnt needs be done carefully.
    • Like x 3
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    I can see why people might feel concerned, but at the same time I don't see their concern as having realistic merit for the reasons I explained.

    Having the safety net there doesn't mean people are going to change their play style to play with the purpose of setting it off deliberately that defies its entire design, what happens in the next 5 minutes then if they make a mistake? They die and they wasted their chance because they thought it was smart to "farm the mistake".

    The entire premise that that's going to become a thing is nonsensical, people don't behave like that, certainly not smart ones.

    What are they really going to do, waste their Lazarus on the first skull attack, then die to the next one, are we suggesting they're going to waste it on the first one just for the laughs? Even if they did, so what? They leveled the artifact didn't they?

    It's certainly not going to allow them to ignore all of them and that's why it was designed with the cool down in the first place.

    I also think the DWFE scenario is a red herring, I think the concern from a few is the prospect that some might use this artifact to "cheese" SM, lest someone seen as undeserving complete survival mode.

    That's the scenario and probably only scenario where you'll see this artifact proc off in a singular fight, because of their length, even then I would assert that's an outlier, anyone whose been in some of those high end SM rounds, knows full well, one shots go off far more rapidly than every 5 minutes, in fact every single focus blast or ground pound can be a tank one shot, it's why they're grey range tanking, amongst a few other tactics.

    This artifact isn't going to suddenly make someone beat SM who wasn't beating it otherwise, it certainly isn't making people beat any content they otherwise wouldn't be beating, so with that being the case, it cannot possibly be 'game breaking'.
    • Like x 4
  4. Proxystar #Perception

    I agree and in terms of excluding one shot mechanics, I'm on the fence but not in total disagreement, if you want everyone to block, that's cool too, I think the artifact in its current form is what makes it appealing if you nerf it, you'll send it back in to the realms of pointlessness.

    There's a lot of other stuff that can kill a player outside of a skull attack hard one short of course. :)
    • Like x 4
  5. Controller Loyal Player

    Are there any future changes to Controller-Specific Artifacts like BoP, Rao? Others?

    Soul Cloak used to be a core art on my Power Controller but "Power Controller" is becoming an endangered species nowadays.
  6. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    Amulet of Rao and BoP in their current state do not need an update. The artifacts they are updating were notably lackluster which is why they're getting this update.
  7. Controller Loyal Player

    But how many Controllers have BoP in their loadouts for Elite content? Or even Rao amulet?

    Isn't the typical "Buff Controller" loadout a highly leveled Claw, Tetra and Cog? This is the information I received from a friend of mine on here who walked me through the "Buff Controller" arts and he's in an Elite league.

    Just curious.

    I've seen some posters here even mention that BoP is not really needed in certain cases. And in the case of a Buff Controller solely using arts to Buff DPS where is the room for the Rao amulet?
  8. CodiVore New Player

    I am truly looking forward to this artifact change for LPW. I liked the idea of it back when it was introduced, but alas it wasn't as appealing in actual combat. In response to some of the critics, please read my responses below.

    Honestly, I like that this artifact change was UNIQUE to DCUO. Not everything that is done in this game need to be a copy of some other game. I like the idea of the risk instead of someone purposely killing themselves because they know they can come right back with full health and invincibility. This suggestion honestly incentivizes the player to go kamikaze in the game and will put it in direct conflict of things like revive counters in Elite. No one would carry / use it in Elite because it's usefulness is limited by the amount of times you can die.

    I personally really like the new change for being unique, I've never heard of a mechanic like this in other games. It makes the majority of the player base think twice about passing this barely used artifact over for something else.

    Keep in mind that these changes aren't supposed to be tailored to yours or anyone else's specific idea of gameplay. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't mean it's not a good thing for the majority of the population.

    Judging by your response, it doesn't really seem like you tested it out before you made a judgment and posted this knee jerk reaction. Your take does make sense just if you did a quick read and forgot to include some key items in the description. It would be super OP if the risk of dying immediately after 12 seconds wasn't there. Keep in mind that healing you during that 12 seconds is nerfed by 50% and you still take damage from bosses and ads. It's not like the Bottled City Coler will heal you the same way it normally does. Yes a good player can manage the risk, but it still is a real risk like Rage Crash used to be so it's not a 100% guarantee that you can pull it off every single time.
    • Like x 3
  9. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    I really don't like the idea of being able to compare everything in DCUO to something in other game(s). It makes the game seem much less original on it's own if you can just make a list of all the things DCUO "borrowed" from other games. Like CodiVore said, it's nice to have something unique to DCUO more often than not because it gives this game an identity of it's own.

    I look forward to the changes that are being made as they were described. It gives the players another way to play instead of some cookie cutter loadout like precision WM Brawl -> Martial Arts for example. Everyone who plays precision does the same exact thing, and frankly it looks boring as heck that you have to be like everyone else. If you have a powerset that doesn't lend itself to doing solos very well, this will definitely come in handy.
    • Like x 4
  10. SocratesGS Well-Known Player

    I have to disagree on your take. Like Proxy, I think this isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Everyone lost their minds when LPW first came out, but no one really uses it now. It never was game changing back then, and I don't think it will be after these changes. I don't see a lot of people taking into account the difficulty of healing back to 100% will be during that 12 second window while healing is nerfed by 50%.
    • Like x 4
  11. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    Amulet of Rao is pretty much mandatory for every Control playstyle. A typical Buff Control setup will be Amulet, Claw and either Tetrahedron or Cog (depends on the group). BoP I admit is a niche artifact but it has received more positive reviews than the artifacts currently being tested.

    If they do a second wave of artifact updates, I wouldn't be surprised to see BoP get a small update. But Amulet of Rao is perfect as is.
    • Like x 1
  12. Legasei Well-Known Player

    For those of you worried about Lazarus Pit Water becoming game breaking, if the raid mechanic doesn’t knock you out, the Rage of Lazarus effect will if you don’t get back to 100% hp in time. This artifact is basically adding one more challenge before a knockout. Just like with raid mechanics, success at that challenge is reliant upon skill and stats. That’s not game breaking. Ranmaru spoke of plans to reduce the healing of soders during the effect. Once that’s figured out, I think this artifact will be in a good place.
    • Like x 5
  13. Controller Loyal Player

    Do you personally think that ANY changes to BoP amulet in the future will move the needle for Controllers in Elite raids to slot a Rao, BoP and Claw?

    Would DPS allow Controllers to slot such an Artifact loadout at the expense of THEIR damage?

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not giving DPS too much power and control in this game - especially in ELITE content. But they DO have such power.

    I'd be lying to say otherwise.
  14. sds<dzd New Player

    Just want to say that you seem like a really good dev Ranmaru! The revamped Omegahedron seems perfect for me, glad to see more artis that works with might/prec hybrids!
    • Like x 1
  15. Controller Loyal Player

    The Devs here do REALLY GOOD WORK. No doubt about that.

    Their work often goes ignored and taken for granted.

    This game is a Superhero MMO - original and quite unlike anything else out there.

    The reason I've personally started posting in threads like this is because of a prominent poster on here commenting to me a few months ago that oftentimes only a SMALL SELECT group of people ever go on Test Server and actually give feedback in threads like this.

    Then - when changes go LIVE - some in the player base COMPLAIN and say we don't like the changes but yet where were we during threads just like this one?

    Thus - THEIR opinions / desires - are taken into account.

    I just want Controller Arts to be given some love, that's all. I'm not expecting or asking the game to be broken just for me but when the Rao amulet is perhaps the ONLY Controller-Specific Art to make the cut in Elite Content then there needs to be a change.
  16. TheLorax 10000 Post Club

    It depends on if and what change they make with BoP to make it more appealing. A hypothetical scenario and off topic.
    • Like x 1
  17. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Every good buff troll has rao in. Every good troll really. Always run rao. Claw is next for the “must haves” for buff trolls. Then it’s tetra. You tac swap cog and tetra if you’d like to add more burn to the prec players. But might and prec will both benefit from tetra. If you’ve got a full group of prec dps, then you can run claw full time tho their might attacks wouldn’t be as strong as they could be since you’d be missing tetra. My buff troll runs amulet/ claw/ tetra, all dom (health is higher) augments. All sp goes to health and then vit. Aside from spammy players, power out isn’t an issue. Run trinket pets that boost health, eat cookies that boost health, compound and all the league buffs you can get. My health is over 405k in content. 1 dps goes from about 100k st per 10secs to around 180k when I buff them/ debuff enemies. And I’d be buffing 5 dps in a raid that amount.

    Loadout is just the 3 debuffs/ group heal/ aggro drop shield/ supercharge shield. 1234 rotation with some weapon taps if you’d like.

    Sorry for the off topic. Just wanted to clarify for Controller. If you have any questions, we can take it to pm
    • Like x 1
  18. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Dang it, late late edit for you Controller.

    I said: a. If you’ve got a full group of prec dps, then you can run claw full time tho their might attacks wouldn’t be as strong as they could be since you’d be missing tetra.

    I meant you can run cog full time. Always run claw and rao, tac tetra and cog. And once you get good at the tacs, then you can do things like EoG/ scrap/ bop/ whatever. Ok, done for real.
    • Like x 1
  19. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    A fine detail.

    The way you worded this response make it sound like the invincibility may only be granted towards the entity that would've killed you. And that other entities can still damage/kill you in the invulnerability state.

    Is that true?
    (I'm bringing this up due to the fact that someone still died from environment damage during the invulnerability window.)
  20. Ranmaru Developer

    No, you should be fully invulnerable during this time, I have a fix on my local server for that as well as a reduction on soder healing based on the rank of the artifact.
    • Like x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.