Test Discussion Artifact Reworks 2022

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Ranmaru, Jul 14, 2022.

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  1. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This artifact is highly dependent on the troll if used in a group set-up. Because it is quite hard to run out of power - besides powers that are already very strong - i would suggest to change the negative buffs into positives. The value should be adapted of course but if it stays like this, many players will wonder why their damage is bad in an instance when it was really good on a sparring target.
    I like the approach a lot.
    Vwd is currently a bit behind in terms of damage, but almost doubling the uptime of its buff seems over the top. I would actually rather nerf the buff slightly and have an uptime of 12 seconds (Matching the weapon buff cooldown and crit buff from head mod).

    This artifact always seemed hard to balance due to the extreme difference in weapon combos and their damage. Would be a shame to have it nerfed again, after it hit live.

    Seems good to me. Very strong but if theres an internal cooldown to the Rage of Lazarus effect, it has to be in the description!
    Is soder affected by the heal debuff? if not, it should be or else it will be too strong.

    I had this artifact on live for quite some time on Rank 200. When it came to AoE dmg, it was always doing great. The single target aspect was always lacking behind a lot due to the nature of its effect. I hoped it would get addressed in this update but i guess its just meant to be a pure AoE dmg artifact... kind of a bummer.

    Looks good to me but definitely needs to be tested.

    I really like the changes to this artifact for battle healing. It sounds promising. Yet i have once again an issue with exploiting its effect similar to what happened with Clarion. The rank 160+ effect is too easy to exploit and is a straight up 10% resto buff for any main heal set up with an uptime of at least 50%. I really want this to be a battle heal artifact. I feel like the buff should apply when using a weapon buff (similar to clarion) instead of an active shield.
  2. Operation Failure Active Player

    Are these the first batch of arts that will be receiving a rework or the only ones receiving it? Sorry in advance if this has been confirmed already.
    • Like x 1
  3. Kreachure Committed Player

    I will not be using any of these but I hope someone will. Good update devs
    • Like x 1
  4. PsySomatic Extra Life 2020

    I don't not think it is DPS centric artifact, I view it more of a hybrid Tank, Controller, DPS role artifact. The current statline HP, Pow and Might can be used with either of those roles. Obviously at a cost as there are better artifacts if you want pure stat buffs, but it can currently work decently well with any of those roles.

    The changes planned for the statline buffs make it almost useless for DPS roles.

    I'm mainly concerned because I find it very useful for my gameplay style. I rarely run raids and alerts and tend to do things solo without a group, and being able to revive myself in case I do get KO'd is very useful for someone like me.

    Now I am not saying the game should cater to my playstyle, but I also don't think changes should be made to make it more difficult to play like I do.

    How so? Because of the current statline buffs, HP is the only one that is primarily useful for tanks to have. Power and Might can be useful for any of the roles, not just tank.

    And as is, the artifact doesn't even include "tank role" in the description as other artifacts that are primarily for tanks roles. So they leave it open for us to use it with any role we want.
  5. jolaksi Well-Known Player

    This artifact currently being used by any of those roles does not mean its is a common used artifact. It did not find its place on main 3 artifact slots with its stats while there are far better options for DPSes. Thats the very reason why they pull lazarus to be aimed to a role(tank) that will benefit more than others. To make it more useful and because of that will "sell" more.

    Like you said Lazarus is not among any of the main trio artifact setup for any dedicated troll/tank/dps. Even if they keep the power and might stats you wanted it wont be favourable one. Yes it will be used but it wont be the full time tank artifact with the stats it has. With the reworked stats and additional bonus it pushes lazarus to be a main tank artifact imo.

    I also feel you that you had this artifact for your playstyle and it kinda lowering your stats dps wise but was the stats the main reason you leveled this artifact or the self revive? I think they did the right decision with Lazarus
  6. PsySomatic Extra Life 2020

    I never said it was a commonly used artifact, I just said I personally have use for it with my gameplay style. But I do agree that it would be more useful to make it a dedicated role artifact, and it will likely "sell more", but I just don't like that it will come at the cost of making it less useful for most of my toons that currently use it.

    And yes, the revive feature was the main reason I use it, but the stats being useful for a DPS role were also taking into consideration as the revive feature is a emergency last resort option, the stats were always there.
  7. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    If you’re using it for the revive than it’s still there. The stats changes make it more in line with the passive. Who are the roles that would need a fast/instant revive the most? Dps? No. It’s tanks and healers. If a tank goes down than it can be hard to pick up the tank because of enemies/bosses/hazards. If a healer goes down there is risk of the group dying without healing for even a small amount of time. The redistribution of the stats better enhances the 2 roles that will utilize this the most. The solo player who wants to use it for the self revive can still use it.

    And no, I don’t see it as a tank art because of the stats changes or because of the some text recommending it. I see it as a tank art because it’s passive best supports tanks.
    • Like x 3
  8. Mr.W Committed Player

    I approve these changes :D

    I'm VERY excited to try the gem & omegahedron
  9. jolaksi Well-Known Player

    Since we cant test it right now I will just throw an idea that popped in my mind.

    I feel like for an effect like this, a simple visual is not enough for player to keep up and follow when the effect cooldown is ended and when it is active. We actually need to see cooldown timer on screen during gameplay. Something like a 05:00 minutes countdown visible in our screen, under the character name or in a well thought spot.
  10. PsySomatic Extra Life 2020

    While tanks and healers would need a self revive more than a DPS would, all roles would benefit from being able to self revive. I know for a fact I have been in plenty of situations that required me to use it as DPS in order to save the group from failing, especially so in elite duos and alerts.

    And yes, the a solo player can still use it. But once it is changed, the stats buff on it for a DPS role would be nearly useless.

    If I remember correctly, it was mentioned on the forums that your gear covers your dominance stat. And I think it was you that said that you can't CC enemies more if you have more dominance or something like that. So if you are properly geared up, that should take you to the required dominance needed per mission, so having it boosted with a artifact isn't really as useful as having might boosted.

    So if anything, a solution would be a statline change to Health, Resto and Might.
  11. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    A lot of games have added iconics by the users name/HP bar to indicate things like this. I do believe dcuo should too.

    Won’t be responding after this since I don’t want to derail the thread more than it already has but a dps can use symbols for added defense and healing. A dps can use lasso to get feats like the turret feat in the flashpoint duo. A tank can use source shard to boost their dps since pets scale from cr.

    Should those arts be modified and basically punish the main demographic of the art to allow those other roles to use it better? That’s not how it should work. The art should maintain its focal point and just add benefits to others who want to use it. A dps wanting to have the revive can still use it
    • Like x 1
  12. Mr.W Committed Player

    Hey Ranmaru, will it be possible to have a green (for buff) or orange light (for debuff) animation over a players head with the new omegahedron? That way players won't have to try to eyeball their power pool & controllers will know to let a certain players power pool stay a little lower.
  13. Mr.W Committed Player

    I think that's the back up bleed effect that proc at 14 hits unless I'm missing something.

    Edit: ah I see what you're saying, it shouldn't trigger until 17 hits instead of 14
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    The reality is most people are using this artifact for its passive ability to self rez, most are probably not even considering the stat line percentages on it, probably not even the DPS because it is no where near the most optimal DPS artifact, even for solo play, I appreciate you're attempting to use the passive within the scope of your play style, but even if you're playing solo (which I do a lot even myself, but am a tank power) this artifact (Lazarus Pit) is simply not an artifact I am remotely considering because it's not the most effective even within the scope of that play style.

    You're confusing the "suggested dominance" which is about having enough dominance to control and affect NPC's with having desired dominance for other things.

    You are correct that instance suggested dominance is easily going to be achieved from a tanks gear, but that doesn't mean a tank doesn't want every other drop of dominance it can get. Dominance is the driving force behind shield strength along with the restoration stat, so a tank isn't going to stop and redirect stats once it hits the suggested level.

    The truth is a tank is more likely to be wearing this artifact full time and despite the fact I acknowledge your use of it and the loss you'll probably suffer from the changes, I feel sometimes the majority that would benefit from the changes has to outweigh the minority who stand to lose something from a re-work.

    Having said all of that however, I would have to also say, why don't we just leave the 3% might on the artifact? why even remove it? The Philosophers stone for example has 4% Dom, Might, Resto, Prec, Vit

    So I'm not really sure why the Lazarus Pit couldn't just have 5%HP, 4% Dom, 3% Resto, 3% Might.

    The tanks aren't going to disproportionately benefit from the 3% Might anyway and at least PsySomatics use of it won't be lost.
    • Like x 1
  15. Apolloin Well-Known Player

    I haven’t played in a while, but it seems to me they are buffing prec dps with the vwd omegahedron doesn’t look beneficial at all especially when controllers will keep energy bars topped off. So a buff to prec dps and nothing for might. I guess this is good idk
  16. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Question about Lazarus pit. If someone were wearing circes mask and that happened to proc while this is equipped, does the circes heal buff still activate? Anyone able to test the combo? Does mystic affect its percentages of heal debuff?
    • Like x 1
  17. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    I think it’s because arts in that nature tend to give only health and power base stats with a percentage based buff for most/all stats. The new stats for the laz give it a base stats to all primary tank/healer stats and the percentage based buffs to match. Thou I’m guessing on the reasoning
    • Like x 1
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    I agree with your suspicions as to the reasoning because the artifacts that do carry all those stats like Philosopher stone are attempting to clearly be role agnostic.

    With that being said, I was hoping for a compromise and wondering whether even if it were slightly against regular reasoning whether it would be that much of an issue being a slight outlier :) I wouldn't think so, but that's just me. It's probably just a way to keep both camps entirely happy, without breaking the artifact.
  19. PsySomatic Extra Life 2020

    At no point did I say the artifact should be changed to fit something else, it already is the way it is and works decently for a DPS role or any role for that matter.

    The main focal point of the artifact is currently the self revive feature and that can be useful for every role in the game.
    Yes a DPS can still use it after the changes, but it will become less useful stats wise because of the changes.

    And I am discussing the changes to the artifacts, so I don't see how that is derailing a topic asking for feedback regarding the changes to the artifacts.

    But that is fine, thank you for your time.

    I very much doubt I am the only person that utilizes the artifact in the way that I do, so I wouldn't say that I am the only one that will benefit from them keeping Might on the artifact.

    Also I disagree about most players not considering the statline buffs, as I did take them into consideration when I leveled it up. Because as is, the statline buffs are beneficial for a DPS role, a troll, a tank or a battle tank/troll obviously there are better artifacts to use if you want a pure DPS, Troll or Tank. But when I play I prefer to give myself plenty of options for survival, and being able to self revive is a pretty big plus in any role. But the additional health, power and might also help out.

    I do hope they just do what you suggested and just kept might on the artifact as well the others, that IMO would be the best option.

    Lastly, thanks for the correction on the dominance stat.
    • Like x 1
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    Oh, I doubt you're alone, but I would suggest you're probably within a significant minority. For clarity I guess the reason I mentioned that people don't consider the statline buffs is simply because Lazarus Pit isn't that appealing for a DPS because not only is that might % quite low compared to other options, the passive power in itself (self rez) isn't actually that appealing from a DPS perspective.

    In my opinion it's not even really about survival either, it's an error safety net because you've made a mistake and died, the goal should be avoiding death in the first place.

    That's why the re work on this artifact even from a tanking perspective is brilliant because although the self-rez is appealing as a tank, the fact you're dead and using it in the first place means you made a mistake (or possibly content is over-tuned, but we won't go there).

    The reality is, if you're after survival as a whole, there's already better options over Lazarus Pit, Clarion for example would be such an artifact, it shields you and heals you, avoiding the death and self-rez in the first place, it doesn't carry might admittedly, but does carry precision, because its built around the weapon buff, so admittedly this doesn't help with your might build, but it's just an example that other people probably tend to lean towards over the Lazarus.

    But yeah, I'm not opposed to just leaving the might on there, don't really reckon it'll hurt to do so and in fact just allows you your extra option without causing any harm, at least in my opinion :)
    • Like x 1
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