Artifact Issues PLEASE READ DEVS

I have nothing against you. Everytime a person brings up anything that would push the game in right direction, it's others that's against it. Artifacts is a major reason why players i know don't comeback. The devs even nerfed Nth detectors. Use to get 6, now we get 5. Even though they took Artifacts from 160-200. That's an extra million experience

Well that's good cuz I don't have anything against anyone either. I do have a different outlook than most due to literal constant price badgering from clients. I even advertise that I'm the most expensive choice locally in my industry. But again, I'm not siding with anyone. I believe things need changing/ updating but this is just too much in my opinion. Would it be awesome? Absolutely. But they seem to really have 3 options to make money as a business and that's membership, TCs, and artifacts. So pulling one of those away makes something either take it's place or costs go up on any and everything else.

So I'd lobby a tad smaller is all. Fight for seals, fight for more bonus nth weeks, whatever. Or try to have something like this added as a membership bonus. This being an option to ftp/ premiums just can't happen.

We all know membership needs a lot of work/ perks added but I'm guessing that of the top 3 money makers, membership has fallen to the bottom under artis and tc's

Nerfed Nth Detectors? When?
AFAIK, based on a google search when I started using them and extensive usage over the past year, they work on a random 8-12 minute timer. The timer stops when you log off, but continues after a Detector expires.
When grinding bounties, doing dailes, killing 333 goons at Amusement Mile etc. I'll pop a Detector, get the first cache, then be aware of the time. Even when I'm just idly talking in League Chat, I make sure I'm constantly killing stuff from (around) the 8th minute mark from last Cache till I get the next. I always make sure to wait at least 15mins from one expires till I pop the next. Exept during 2x Nth drops, where I just always want to be on Detector.

I'll agree on the obvious point that the function should be described when buying themm the items description and somewhere either here or the website. Or both.

As for OP, who forced him to spend money on getting 22 Arts across multiple Toons to 200? What Content *requires* Arts at 200?

From my experience, having 10 Toons at current end-game or end-game at-the-time some point between Metal I and Legion, and based on my observations on the nerfs to VMF and CTn, the aimed requirement for clearing normal Content in a reasonable time, is Yellow or Purple gear from previous Episode, 100 SP in main stat + rest (around 180 SP) and 3 appropriate Arts at 80. It obviously gets easier with higher Arts. And you become less dependent on the other people in the group. As for Elites, Max Main Stat for the Episode (except Tanks, they're a bit different), Yellow Gear from the Episode and 3 appropriate Arts at 160. Or just the crucial at 160 and 3rd at 120.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, far from it. I'm just defending my rights to be a whale, tho I mostly spend money on Replays, Art Catalysts, Seals and Stabs. But you stat messing with people spending money on Nth, I'm sure I'll be next

It probably will never happen but i would love this.

It's every 10 minutes, you can get up to 6 if you time your kills right but the average is 5. Nth Detectors weren't nerfed, they've always worked like that.

It's not every 10 minutes. When was the last time you got 6 cache? I use to get them regularly. Haven't got 6 in atleast a year

Hmm. My testing must be flawed. Tbh I've only started looking at a clock recently, mostly to know when Bosses spawn.

I get 6 on 2 out of 3 Detectors in Main everyday. Usually get 5 on the 1 I use in 2 or 3 Alts everyday.

When was the last time you killed 4xx adds in AF3 or AoJ? When Arts killed Alts? Or was it bounties that killed them?

I play on several toons. You don't get 6. You remind of the guy who said he got 4 200 artifacts since April without the MP

Damn. Have you doxxed me? I know what I get (usually 6) but how do you know?
Are you killing stuff all the time when on Detector to trigger drops? Or are standing in WT while waiting for groups or q's, while on Detector? Are you just standing around during those damned soul-sucking Bounty spams just waiting for boss to spawn, while complaining in Shout how boring it is?

I'm not sure about the the nth metal detector thing, and I do disagree with a lot of things you have pushed for in the past on the forums. However you're 100% right in this case about people being against pushing the game in the right direction.

The responses in these types of threads are always so amusing. It's the same with every other thread. Obviously anything that would bring in more money at face value is better financially for the company.

What I don't understand is why people are so vehement about making this point every time someone asks for something that is consumer friendly. You are a consumer as well. You are not employed here, so why go out of your way to oppose a potential solution to an otherwise shady money making scheme. Even if you've already went through and leveled up artifacts on your alts (like I have), it's just hilarious to oppose something that would be better for the community in general when you are a member of that community.

Time capsules were one thing. A lot of us were opposed to them, but eventually embraced the idea that this is how it is going to be. At least I can buy the feats and whatever if I so choose to on my alts if I want to continue playing them at a high level.

Artifacts are much worse in my opinion. Disguising general improvements and additional variety to gameplay that was beginning to become stale behind a grind or pay to level system was and is a disgusting tactic. Despite all this, even with the increasing milestone ranks and increasing xp requirements, the community has even learned to live with this system. Well, I should say, those that chose to continue playing.

People spend hundreds on getting their artifacts up because they do not have the time to grind to 200. They want to play endgame content, not sit there 5 hours a day farming nth metal. This is a choice, and people have chosen to do it. The issue with alts however is, far fewer people choose to get their alt artifacts up that high. There are people who do get their artifacts up to 200 on multiple alts, but these people are a part of a much smaller category. This means diminishing returns, financially, at the cost of potential consumer dissatisfaction. People lose interest in this game and go play other games, whether it be Call of Duty, Apex Legends, Fortnite, Destiny, or whatever else people enjoy playing when they're over DC. Being able to level different characters without having the same immense grind as on their mains would draw people's interest towards DC more, keeping more players from drifting to other games as frequently as they do.

TLDR: Having alts makes a lot of people want to play the game more. People lose interest and become discouraged as far as leveling their alts when they are not able to get them close to the potential of their main toons, largely due to artifacts. I don't speak for everyone of course, but I do not believe they would lose a significant amount of income by making a more alt friendly artifact system (reasons listed up there ^). It may actually boost people's interest in the game. I just wish the devs would see this and consider doing something about it. More people playing different roles on different toons would be such a healthy addition to the endgame community, and probably even for new players and people leveling up.

I run multiple toons. I've been getting 5 for almost a year. Maybe it's just my bad luck. Even timed it a few times wondering why I stopped getting 5. But, hey, I've been wrong

for all of you defending the artifact system, don't kid yourselves. Daybreaks profit margin is probably something like 500,000 times its entire operating cost so don't get suckered into thinking they NEED the money from it. they are greedy and turned an epic game into a cash grabbing disaster that extorts the players who choose to embrace it.

you'll know better not to spend so much money on a video game?

I'm kind of in the other boat. I'm amused by the start of these thread, over something I don't see a problem with, followed by vehement accusations that the Devs somehow forced them to pay.

I mostly loved the state the game was in Metal I to BoP. The Episode structure going back to Earth 3, although I have only played most of it retroactively.

Granted, I only do Elites with friends and/or League Mates. I very rarely join groups in LFG for end-game Elites, and only ever blind q ZooE and PanoE. I'm against the argument that you need Artifacts higher than 160 to beat Elites in a reasonable time. Most only needs to be 80 or 120 for normal, a few are fine at 120 for Elites.

So my vehement defense is against what I see as "Boo Hoo, I spend a lot of money getting Trans/Strat to 200 week 1 on 5 differebt dpses, even tho both PCe and DMe were beatable with Solar/Grim/EoG witch I already had since I was a top dps and needs to be competitive in burn. I've left the game over my lack of control over my wallet. But I miss it. Make it better and I will come back, promise"

My thought process then is, don't complain after the fact. Make the thread that you want a change or leave with your wallet. And then follow through.

Through the excessive spam fest of Wondervers, I did not post on Forums, but I liked just about every single post that reflected my feelings on the spam.

When Legion dropped and doubled down, I was done spending money. I used all the MC I had stored during the Christmas sale on stuff I'll need *if* I continue playing. I like what I've seen of Panderus' posts. I'm quite happy about all the big fancy worthless words and the alluded promise of a Survival Mode and (mostly) a return to previous Episode structure.

Time will show if I will continue playing, and wether I'll continue being a whale. It is *my choice* wether I wanna open 100 Resurgence Capsules each time, wether I want a few key Arts at 200 on my most played Toons. I'll vote with my wallet, not by crying on the Forums in threads that, imo, takes an issue, blows it totally out of proportions, then give no constructive critisism on how to fix it.

I only use my detectors in open world Gotham, particularly Arkham Island where the adds spawn constantly and can be OHKO. Occasionally a cache will drop early but the next one will drop right on schedule.

I have noticed if you pop a second detector right after the first detector expires that will throw off your drops. I usually wait an extra 10 minutes before popping a second detector. So my farming usually looks like this:

00:00 Pop detector/1st cache drop
00:10 2nd cache
00:20 3rd cache
00:30 4th cache
00:40 5th cache
00:50 6th cache
01:10 Pop 2nd detector/1st cache drop
01:20 2nd cache
01:30 3rd cache
01:40 4th cache
01:50 5th cache
02:00 6th cache

No.
Some people make a choice to support the game for additional gain.
Some people make a choice to not support the game for no additional game.

If they begin rewarding people that do not support the game, what kind of message do you think that sends to the people that choose to support the game?

Why spend any money when the freeloaders will nag the devs to give it away for free?

Well, the crux of your entire argument is based on the idea that people in these types of threads are going "boo hoo" or crying or indicating that the devs have forced them to pay or things of that nature. This is fine, and annoyance with this is warranted.

However, an issue was outlined and they gave an idea on fixing it. Yes, this individual admittedly spent a lot of money. They chose to do that, and after the fact they are outlining a proposal to make a system in the game more consumer friendly. Whether they are doing it because of lack of self control or whatever is irrelevant to others who have chimed in and have a similar viewpoint on the system itself. Not everyone who agrees with this thread spent exorbitant amounts of money because they felt that they needed to have artifacts in week 2 of a dlc.

Making artifacts that you've already willingly obtained on your main toon easier to access on alts is a very healthy concept. It is not a very big issue, but adamantly opposing something like this makes little sense if you yourself are also a consumer. It is very confusing.

I actually don't like the idea. its enough maintaining multiple armories. having to equip and re equip artifacts would drive me crazy. he idea might work if there were restrictions on passing these around to alts.

I do think it takes too long and too much effort to get these to 200. would be a nice perk if members got a 10% bonus when eating up nth metal, something like that.

We all love things for free, we all love to do less and get more ... yeah ... that's the problem ...
Developers are people too, and they also want to do less and get more ...
All themes like this one suggest that players do less and get more ... great ... but developers in return are encouraged to do more and get less ...
Well, do you already understand where the dog is buried and why it stinks so?

What should developers do in order to implement the idea from this topic?
Well, I'll give a couple of examples of what you need:
1.It is necessary to redo the UI.
2. It is necessary to change each artifact in order to meet the new requirements.
3. It is necessary to redo a lot of achievements related to artifacts.
4. It is necessary to change some tasks related to artifacts.
5. It is necessary to rebalance the difficult of the content (since the average level of artifacts, their number for each character, their availability, will greatly affect the difficulty of the content (with such availability of artifacts, the difficult of the content automatically drops ...)).
6. It is necessary to rebalance the entire drop of nth metal and revise absolutely everything related to artifacts (drops, sales, bonus weeks ...)
7. It is necessary to calculate how such a change will affect the company's income.
8. It is necessary to balance the new system so as to compensate for the loss in income.
9. It is necessary to convince investors that this will positively affect their income.
10. You can list further ... but is it necessary?

Now let's see what the developers get ...
1. And the developers will receive a "word of honor" that someone will return to the game and spend enough money on it in order to compensate for all the costs and losses ...
2 ... but we don't have 2 points...

Sorry, but this is not serious.

I, like every user, want to spend less (money, time, nerves ...) ... but so far I have not seen any real proposals in any such topic (and not fairy tales about mythical crowds of old and new players who will rush into the game after hearing about new changes ...) that would be beneficial to both parties ...

The goal of ANY business is to make as much profit as possible with as little expense as possible. Its not greedy, its business. Every one of us that has a job is directly benefitting from that core premiss. The more revenue a business can generate via efficiency or cost cutting or any means directly = stability for the workers and security that they have a job To come back to tomorrow. In this case the players are the workers in that we r directly benefitting from the success and i dont personally care if they make a billion times their operating cost. All the better. That wouod make the game even more likely to be around for me to enjoy.
Ppl say its greed all the time which its not, its a goal as is the goal for literally everyone in every walk of life in virtually every aspect of life. To call it greed is to call every aspect of your life greed and thats just false.
To be clear i think the artifact system is great but has its flaws, im not defending it. Im not defending the company exclusively either. Im defending any all business and attempting to explain your hypocrisy. Trying to meet the goal of business that benefits the consumer and the worker is progress not greed. The motivation is gainful employment and in our case enjoyment. Again, thats not greed.
Greed is a whole different sort of evil.