Are players placing too much importance on SP after 120?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Crimson Crossfyre, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Black Prime OG Devoted Player

    Same. They way they were talking leading up to revamp made me want to hit 300sp. When the revamped hit and they gave us 8 or 9, I forgot, free SP. I gave up. I'm somewhere in the 320s and doing just as you.
    • Like x 2
  2. Miss Adora Loyal Player

    Base on experience, Not sure how much sp really matters. I use beta mods on my toons since we change gear so much, not going to waste time using the best mods. But over all experience, my main is 256 water toon with a cr 209/210 and my alts are 206 245 ice toon and 206 245 gadgets and I feel like my Ice and Gadgets toon hits harder then my water toon. Not sure if it's my loudout on my water toon or that I'm more comfortable with gadgets and Ice. Or Ice and Gadgets just offer better Aoe attacks then water.
  3. BumblingB I got better.

    More power means more pew pew, heal heal, tank tank. Not so much troll troll...
    • Like x 1
  4. AnonymousEUPS Dedicated Player

    I need as near as makes no difference, 700sp to spec full fire tank so no, not placing too much importance on sp passed 120 at all. Then that number goes up every DLC now. Oh wait, we’re talking about DPS? Of course we are... Why the random number btw? Am I missing something about 120?
  5. Mosquito_1 Well-Known Player

    Consensus is FOTM doesn't need or FOTM loadouts using a crap ton of power for certain powers wouldn't need that much SP...especially for dps which happens to be a dime a dozen role to begin with. Which utilizes the trolls with a decent enough sp..

    *shrugs*..as a troll, I'll continue to not get sucked into the hype of SP not being that important.
  6. farm3rb0b Committed Player

    More power definitely means more troll troll.
    • Like x 3
  7. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    And where's this 120 number comin from? 120 is still chump change lol
  8. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    I bet you were clipping mass terror with granduer during AMs lol
  9. Capitaine Courage Active Player

    In a perfect world, a system like feats as a main progression path would never have been created in a first place, since it's very outdated and shortsighted for an mmo, and we'll have real universal post lvling pregression system, like a paragon system or something of the kind (something as simple as a secondary XP bar.)
    Feats, achievement, success, call them how you like, are a bad thing in game design. It's lazy design to artificially inflate games duration, introduced mainly when consoles had standardized built in online capacities (so Xbox360 / PS3, even if other consoles had these possibilities before ... 10 years old tropes), and to give artificial sense of accomplishments to the average players. That's all. That was their only purpose when they were massively introduced as a new trend 10 years ago.

    Couple that with horredous UI (having to wait for auto-scrolling text to get an information ? Like ... Really ?! Are you serious, was the UI designer drunk this day ?!), you have a perfect receipe for a design disaster.
    You can't design good system with elements that were originally created for bad reasons.

    DCUO is a good game, don't make me say what I didn't, but everything regarding progression is shabby at best, or overconvoluted for nothing, since the beta, which is not great for a MMORPG.I always wondered how it manage to not totally crumble before.
    It's almost ten years, and the only progression system that they managed to not crap yet is ... artifacts.
    That's also why stat revamp has been so brutal for some, but you can't really make a game progress if your fundations are not good, and you just end up creating systems over systems and generate more issues than solution in the end. It couldn't last.

    That's why stat revamp is a good and abolutely needed thing, but it's certainly not enough, only the beginning, because that's everything regarding progression that should be redone, and it's too late now.
    • Like x 2
  10. Wallachia Devoted Player


    Rage doesn't even have those powers.
    • Like x 2
  11. Crimson Crossfyre Well-Known Player



    I choose the number 120 because having that number of skill points guarantees a character can reach max bonuses in critical chances, have some points in stat bonuses, and it is a number of skill points easily within reach of a new character within a week or so of play. I would be curious to know what the skill point progression curve looks like overall in terms of at which points do gaining skill points keep take more and more time.

    I am surprised that some players believe a skill point grind is something to be encouraged. Of course a new player should not expect to be at the top level content within a few weeks of play but if the grind to the top takes too long, it reaches a point where a player can never catch up to the top players. Other MMOs found that such mechanics all but guaranteed a drop-off in new players joining their games and have made strides to change progression mechanics to ensure new players can get into the thick of things without having to wait for a year or two.

    That does not mean I believe there should be an easy button that instantly grants a character 100s of skill points. The real issue is that some feats have become obsolete in that players have moved beyond the content and have little interest in returning to it to help a new player complete those feats (PVP Feats, for example.) Other feats depend on chasing after loot drops that could take months to complete for a mere 10 points on the feat progression bar (Base feats) or depend on finding collection items that are beyond rare (I still have not found Green Kryptonite, even on the broker.)

    Overall, if skill points are going to be an integral part of character progression, the game design must have a predictable path on which a player can progress without depending on the RNG or finding a sufficient number of players to grind feats to gain enough skill points to be effective. Simply just adding new feats would not accomplish this goal as it merely raises the expectations of how many skill points a character must have or creates a demand by players at the top end for increases in the caps of how many skill points can be spent to gain bonuses. (Similar to mudflation)

    It would be better for there to be alternative paths to complete most existing feats that could be easily judged as being highly unlikely for a new player to be able to complete, which should require time to complete. Also, unless new players are going to be offered more ways to earn MOV to use to purchase style feats, some of the older style feats need to be rethought. For example, changing Reward box missions like Ace Chemicals to being available after a single outside mission completed instead of 5 would be a positive change. It would still require a player to complete such missions over time but reduce grind intervals from 35 days to 7.
    • Like x 2
  12. Multiverse 15000 Post Club

    The answer to the question in the OP is...

    Yes.

    ...it has been like that for a long time.

    When the game was fairly recent.... sure SP played a more important part.
    SP could be 30%+ of your overall stats.

    But then
    Exobits were added to the game...
    T5+ gear were added to the game...
    Generator mods were added to the game...
    Heck they just added Artifacts to the game....

    and SP diminished in value with time.

    They went down to being 10%..... 5%......
    and now I would guesstimate SP being less then 3% of a player's stats?? (yes... I am too lazy to do the actual math.... but even if the actual math showed that SP were less then 1%... some would still argue that less then 1% matters somehow.... so not worth it to do the actual math anyway ;) ).

    A LOT of people did not "evolve" as the game did.
    They are still stuck in the time when SP were 30% of your Stats and still blindly claim that SP are important.

    Some wasted a LOT of time farming for SP....
    and now they are salty that those SP don't matter as much as they wish they did.

    And some are just pushing for SP just to make sure that they keep an advantage over new players. As if having TOP Gear was not advantage enough over new players. :rolleyes:

    Sadly... there are various reasons why some are dead set blindly saying that SP are "important".
    And depending on what agenda they are pushing..... nothing will stop them from saying otherwise.
  13. lordexecution365 Loyal Player


    Keeping an advantage over new players.

    Like in PvP?

    That used to be the argument for SP for PvP and keeping the PvP SP seperate from the PVE SP.

    Gear is luck based, at least before being able to buy the vendor gear, so how is it that actually a better way, if everyone has access to the TOP Gear and really is the only thing that could separate a new player from 1 of old?

    What Mods? Base Mods? cola buffs? Do not everyone have some type access to those?

    We used to say skill separated the players, LoL now it is gear separate the players?

    Agenda is this, players will where their highest pieces of gear, some will mod others would not.

    Some will be lucky others not so lucky with drops and manage to complete or not complete sets before new content is released.

    If 1 player is new can you expect the newer player to be on a perfectly level playing field with a vet, same stats and all.

    By default a brand new player would have no idea what a mod was, heck wouldn't even know how to switch roles, it is also what hurts PvP as well.
  14. BumblingB I got better.

    Awww, you got my joke. <3:oops:
    • Like x 1
  15. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    Translation: Rage is currently "OP". So anyone can be great with it. I was implying that during the AM era, you were doing great damage because of mentals opness at that time.

    I was joking around with you.
  16. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    I totally agree. I got my feats when the game was still "alive" so I understand the challenges new people are facing.

    Check this out: I have around 325ish at the moment, but I'm missing probably 10 to 15 on old raids alone. That lets you know how hard it is to get those.

    I'm missing a bunch of Elite feats and feats from the earlier episodes due to breaks and travel for work etc.

    If even i have a hard time getting those, then new people definitely will.
  17. Wallachia Devoted Player


    Ooooh, my bad.

    Actually, I played Rage even during the AM era, when it was severely weak, and even back then I outdpsed a lot of people. I never played any powerset in the game other than Rage. I play with it because I like it, not because of it being strong or weak.
    • Like x 2
  18. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    120 is probably coming from the relatively easy number to accomplish between the skip to 100 feature and easy do-nothing-but-breathe-and-you-pop-a-feat feats in most Episodes.
    • Like x 2
  19. Dreadshow Well-Known Player

    They place too much importance on finishing content as quickly as possible.
    • Like x 1
  20. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    Sp matter within powers, it don't matter outside powers. Saying that 120sp is not enough sp only because might and power is combined. On my 120 sp toon my power bar is dry after 2 powers