AOE vs ST builds

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Qwantum Abyss, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    They don't matter in CoU e after Trigon, troll can just pull them off a cliff during the Mordru fight. Adds also aren't burnt on SSFe 2nd and last boss.
  2. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    I'm using Frost Breath on my ST loadout, when I do need to burn the adds during a boss, I use it without jump cancelling. For hallway adds, it's where I'm lacking and just accepted other players will do better than me there while I excel in ST instead.
  3. FlexVibrant Well-Known Player

    for example:

    Quantum ST Boss with no adds (eye at CouR)

    HV
    Energy Explosion
    Gravitonal Field
    Einstein Ray


    Quantum ST with adds (Trigon)
    HV
    Energy Explosion
    Distortion Wave
    Lift


    if I'm sneaky i try to quickly switch on the part of the boss where it's just the boss no adds (last % of health)

    I wish we could switch armories instantly in 1 frame, that would be sick lol
  4. Original Cryo boy Committed Player

    I agree with both of the last two comments

    Edit well they were the last two comments lol. Agreed that the first column isn't everything. Just disagree with talking down to players who chase it. Totally agree the single target column showcases powers that are weaker in aoe situations usefulness to the group.

    Totally agree with the hyper player vs relaxed player comparing boss damage comparison. Or just the guy who straight up doesn't like super speed but is still equally useful to the group in boss fights.
    • Like x 1
  5. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    I suppose anythings possible, i am not sure i have ever seen a good tank die to adds but i will concede the point due to probability
  6. Miike Fury Well-Known Player


    in COUE??

    i dont think ive ever seen a good tank die WITHOUT adds being out lol (first boss specifically)
  7. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    If u read anything i said as talking down to dps dont misread. I am a dps and am not talking down to the chasers. Thats on them, i could care less. If someone wants to run 40 armories an swap loadouts an artifacts an armories an such between every button tap so be it. If they wanna spend all that extra $ on extra arts so be it. Im good with all of it. Do you for sure. For me, i was just posing the question and dont want anyone misunderstanding anything I am saying.
  8. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    I was specifically speaking to the adds in hallways an such. On a boss fight thats a dif scenario for sure.
    However to that point, i dont think its even close to a requirement that dps’s run AOE loadouts or swap to them for that soecific moment when trigon pops the eyes. Thats the original point i was making and asking about. There may he specific moments here an there where its useful but its never required really is all. I have ran COUe with a group an the dps all ran ST loadouts and like my loadout had some elements of AOE. And the ST loadouts did just fine burning those adds. Time orbitals and supers correctly and its fine. AOE not a requirement. It may shave a second or some seconds but its a wild claim to say its required is all
  9. Miike Fury Well-Known Player


    oh, yeah in hallways there is no reason to die lol

    and i dont think its a requirement to have some AOE aspect in loadouts that have some adds, but if you want to maximize your efficiency than i would think you would want to incorporate some.

    i cant imagine how much longer it would take if all the DPS has pure ST powers. the adds would slowly melt to the Heat Vision explosion dots ...that sounds miserable as a tank lol
    • Like x 1
  10. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    See thats exactly why i am essentially advocating 1 finely tuned universal loadout that performs.
    As AV pointed out tho, some powers cant do that as easily as i have done it with quantum so in my OP my logic had a fallacy in that i actually all powers were similar in that way just each with their own nuances an such but it seems some just perform differently.
    • Like x 1
  11. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Munitions comes to mind. Like everything is aoe so their usual loadout is exactly the same no matter what everyone else is doing. On my alts, 100% of the time they run same loadout which includes mostly aoe with just the finishers being 100% ST. I'm aiming for helpful/ not hindrance builds there so mid pack is the target. On my main, yeah I'll switch things up depending on scenario. Plus it's a personal agenda with me and sorcery. I have to top the charts as often as I can because I hate players seeing a sorcery user and thinking "here comes some lackluster damage"
    • Like x 1
  12. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    [IMG]
    • Like x 2
  13. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    FBe. DMe. Even in MOMe, you did have to burn the Ivy adds but it wasn’t really a race to avoid death. As long as the group shifted focus to kill them and then went back to Ivy, everything was fine.

    But even in elite raids where it is imperative to quickly burn each add phase, all any DPS had to do, even those with cheeks aoe burn, was create timed damage spikes by timing their SC and utility belt goodies to where you could stack it all as soon as they spawned. Four DPS’s hitting orbitals, Snake Turrets, DPS buff trinket, a supply drop or two and then popping their supercharge should quickly melt any elite add mob.
  14. Shalayah Committed Player

    One does better dmg in AOE and one does better dmg ST.

    Both armories are viable for the situations that they aren’t made for but I like to top the scoreboard. I’m competitive and if that’s an issue. I apologize but I just like to compete. It’s who I am as a person.

    Also and more importantly. Electric is a pretty great AOE power but it’s ST isn’t that good not to say that it isn’t good enough because I can top scoreboards in ST boss damage but my ST loadout isn’t exactly strong against adds nor can it compete with guys who run ST loadouts on better ST powers.

    All of it singles back to my internal competition with my peers but I do like having good burn. Sorry not sorry :)
  15. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Lol yea dont be sorry, pretty sure no one is sayin that tryin to top a board is bad :)
  16. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I’m glad you chose those two examples as there is a significant distinction between the two that is very relevant to this topic and quite honestly NEEDS to be a widely heard PSA to the community.

    That distinction is between finite spawning adds and infinitely spawning adds. Most of the time, finite spawning adds come in phases or waves and usually (but not always) hit pretty hard and/or have a mechanic that is detrimental to the group. As for Infinitely spawning adds, they usually have an earlier timed entry in to the boss fight and will continue to spawn until the maximum number of adds (as determined by the raid design) is reached. Every time one dies, another spawns to replace it. If the group keeps kiling them, they just keep respawning infinitely until the boss is dead or, in a few cases, the next phase is reached.

    Why that matters is because in the vast majority of cases with finite adds, they need to be burned down quickly. Sometimes it’s because they hit like a vibranium plated mack truck and could KO the tank or if not, the next wave of adds certainly will if the first is still out. Other times it’s because the next phase is fast approaching and overlapping phases makes bad things happen (ex PCe portals, Grails mind control, etc). But what’s nice is, once the last phases in burned down, it’s usually smooth sailing from there.

    Now, as for infinite adds, in the vast majority of cases, there’s really no reason to burn them...at all. There’s a few exceptions but only because they function as a mechanic like plugging the Volcanoes in HiveE. but generally, it doesn’t help the group one bit. In fact, it hurts the group in multiple ways. First, you’re splitting damage as opposed to focusing ST powers on the boss to burn him faster. 2nd, you’re making the tank have to work significantly harder as he has to constantly watch for spawning adds, move to get in range to pull them, organize them in to the pile he already had and add them to the juggle if it isn’t already screwed up because the rhythm had to be interrupted to pull and they might have broken out and gained immunity. Third, you’re removing an add from a situation where it posed little to no threat to anybody in the group and forcing it to possibly respawn next to somebody and kill them. Adds in this game often spawn already in their first attack animations and it’s unreasonable to expect a tank to be ready, aware and in good position to pull an add from any spawn point at any given moment.

    So to recap, if adds will infinitely respawn, unless killing them serves as a specific mechanic in the raid, LEAVE THEM BE. Trust me, that nice neat pile that the tank worked so hard to pull and organize them to is EXACTLY where you want them to be. And even if you are personally fine with the risks, it’s still forcing the tank to work a lot harder than he should have to which is kind of a d*** move...

    Edit: in case it wasn’t clear, after the first sentence I was using the royal “you” and was speaking to everyone.
    • Like x 1