An Otherworldly Guide to Celestial

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Remander, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. Remander Steadfast Player

    As Lady Thren said, you can't just look at the numbers on the screen. DW to Bow hits twice. RcW hits four times, so each hit will be smaller. Clipped into itself properly, RcW is just as fast. I think I linked my test results from the other thread in the DPS section of this guide.
    • Like x 1
  2. Remander Steadfast Player

    Lookie what I found:

    You're right. I recalled this conversation in the old guide back when the HoTs were changed. I doubt anything has changed. So, we have four 8-man HoTs which we personally can stack, but they will overwrite between players. Sorry for the mistake. My bad. I'll be sure and incorporate this into the healing portion of the guide, whenever I get around to finishing it, lol!
    • Like x 3
  3. tyrose Level 30

    Just a quick question. Awesome guide btw. I have a celest toon that is just collecting dust atm. Was thinking of trying it again with battle healing. A friend of mine told me to do this I should run all healing gear and just fill the slots with dps mods. Is that right?
    Also do you run in dps mode with high restoration or heal mode with a decent prec?
  4. blklightning New Player

    When I did battle healing, I ran full healer gear w/ all resto/prec mods and dom/prec in my blues. Other people just swap out some of their healer gear for DPS gear, to strike a balance. Depends on how many sets of gear you want. In my day, I had two sets of healer gear: 1 for full resto healing, and the other for battle healing.

    It's key to keep both your prec and resto up, as they rely on each other for maximum healing. If your prec is too low, you won't do the damage to maximize your heals. If your resto is too low, then you'll cap your heals and your high prec won't do much good. So, pick a stat and balance it with a soder from the other stat. Also, spec into damage crits before healing crits. Those are a huge help.

    This is from a few months ago, so mainly using WM for damage, but it's a good slow motion that shows just how big the heals can be. I ran a tight rotation for damage->heals. Was a lot of fun.

    • Like x 2
  5. Remander Steadfast Player

    Yeah, blklightning is right on. Personally, I like to titrate my ratio of resto to precision depending on the content, so I'm one of those who swaps out healer gear for DPS. My current battle healer Armory has me in mostly DPS gear with a DPS weapon. I only have the healer gear that gives me healer crit boosts (IIRC, head, chest, legs, and shoulders). I think that puts me at just shy of 4k resto and a bit over 2k precision. You can just mod healer gear with precision, as well.
    • Like x 2
  6. tyrose Level 30

    ok many thanks all. this gives me something to think about
  7. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    I think that if one stacked might with Dark Pact, I believe you could obtain some decent yellow damage. Mal and Plague are good strong single target dots. I haven't tried it yet but I like the idea of not comboing everything and relying on WM bursts. Of course you could add some of the PcDL combos in for multi target and mixing in CI would help on mobs.
  8. ez7 Troller New Player

    Today I tried to mix it up a little bit and add some WM combos. Here's what I did (Using 2 armories)

    Mobs: Anoint/Bene/PcDL, WcR, WMx1 using the crit to RcWx2. (At times I just skipped the WM and did RcW x3)

    Boss: DLcP/BcM/RcC/Ci/Anoint, WM x2, each time using the WM crit bonus for Retribution no combo, WM using the crit for DLcP and that restarts the whole rotation.

    Not getting Wither for the Boss loadout allowed me to get both Curse idol and crit Mag innate. My WM might crits with retribution were from 2-3k on the bosses (but I have prec/might in reds). This also kept my power bar well stocked throughout most of Necro and the damage out was very good.

    I know you found DW explosive shot does less damage than RcW. I'm wondering how RcW compares to DW(es)
    +wm crit Retribution?

    I did much better damage using the above, but I am also getting better at the combo system. I'm clipping faster and missing less combos, so its worth noting the increase in damage could be a result of this and not the loadout changes.
  9. Remander Steadfast Player

    Actually, the only abilities that benefit from a full might build are Malediction and Defile. ScH and DMcB (only if single target) are best in a balanced build. Everything else benefits most from a full precision build. Now, I haven't factored in the effect of DP (35% might boost) vs Anoint (15% precision boost). I can look at that in my spreadsheet, when I get home. Would actually be an interesting and worthwhile analysis.
    • Like x 1
  10. Remander Steadfast Player

    The difference was actually fairly small and possibly within the margin of error. Without more extensive testing, I'd call them equivalent. The might crit once per rotation would add a little, but you'd have to look at it over the course of a raid. The crit mag boost for DW to Bow is 2.1x per Shiny's measurements. Also, keep in mind that Retribution is single target. I actually think you'd lose damage in your boss fight approach, as you'd have to let Retribution play out each time. Comboing to cW or just doing another WM combo should net more damage than even a WM crit on Retribution. Having a more balanced build, like you do, would make that WM crit a little better, but your still mostly precision-based, and probably giving up more damage by not modding full precision. You can calculate out the average non-crit damage using my base values and your stats. For combos like RcW, just add the two and divide by 2.4 (the clipped duration) to get an average non-crit DPS.
    • Like x 2
  11. DarkThorn Dedicated Player

    If you had to pick between DLcP or PcDL, which would you choose for solo content? I really don't want to have to have an armory just to switch between single target and mobs with only those two combos being the difference. I think, based upon what I was reading in the guide, that PcDL would probably be the best "all around" option, but I just wanted to find out for sure.

    Right now my loadout is: RcW, Benediction, PcDL, AcB, CI, Anoint.
  12. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    I am on vacations, so my time trying the new loadouts is very limited (and playing in a notebook is not my thing)...

    In a way preliminar review, maybe the MAX DAMAGE thing is bad for celestial.

    Yes, now, we can use more options of loadouts, powers like Retribution are useful again... BUT...

    We were using a loadout, before MDamage, heavily based in 50% modifiers... against powersets using 35%, 40% powers in their loadouts... now, everybody is 60%.

    Our little advantage vanished.

    RAGE, for example.. DBlast was 45%, now is 60%. Ice boulder was 45% too...

    Our MIGHT damage is still very low, and our SC is almost nothing.

    Last, without testing numbers, it seems WM has a bigger RANGE OF CRITS than RETcW or SmiteChaunt.
    So, maybe these powers still are inferior to WM use... but I cant confirm this wthout proper test.

    What I saw, these days, was Sorcery and Rage destroying me as celestial, something that didnt happened before gu40 :)
  13. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    Rage and Sorc have the biggest potential. I would not fret, nor would I be concerned. They probably will be getting nerfed soon

    Celestial is in no way a Top DPS but it's solid. We should be around the same potential as Mental.
    • Like x 1
  14. Remander Steadfast Player

    DLcP does have an edge with single targets, but PcDL is immensely better on multiple targets. My numbers from full precision 94 gear put DLcP at ~24% better for single targets and PcDL at ~84% better for mobs. If you're going for one combo, use PcDL.
  15. Remander Steadfast Player

    Sorcery and Rage were already at the top of the heap. I don't doubt what you're seeing is real. The thing to realize about RcW vs, say, DW to Bow is that RcW has 4 hits to 2 for DW to Bow. The numbers will be smaller, but what I've seen in head-to-head testing is that they're at least equivalent with a possible edge to RcW. Of course, is that enough to sacrifice the inherent efficiency of WM? I don't know. All I do know is that I can't stand WM and what it's done to this game. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit to avoid having to use it. That's me, though.
    • Like x 4
  16. DarkThorn Dedicated Player

    I have to agree with Remander, before Max Damage, Celestial was relegated to basically a "buff only + WM" which made it extremely boring really fast, and was the reason why I abandoned it in favor of Sorcery. However, MD has given OPTIONS to Celestial once again, viable options which were difficult to find in the Pre-GU40 WM era. Even when some people found a way to be somewhat competitive, they were forced to use the SAME loadout in order to maximize that potential. Now, thanks to MD, not just Celestial, but all powers have options of adding new and different powers to their loadouts, powers they couldn't use previously because of the low damage modifier. It is because of MD that I've returned to Celestial, as now I can play it like I used to.

    I can see how scoreboard chasers might find this a bit problematic because now they have even more competition, but for those of us who play the game for fun, MD has been a godsend. :cool:
    • Like x 2
  17. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    Whoever wanted Dark healing...
    I tested this in Artifacts. It's very very H.o.T heavy

    Cursed Idol, Blight cAdmonish (great burst heal), Consume Soul cWrath of the Presence, Malediction cBenediction, Plague cDivine Light, Curse cRenew (Malediction in might form does heals equivalent to the damage done, both in cursed and cleansed form. Dark pact buffs it up and sweetens the pie a bit.. just an interesting find)
    • Like x 1
  18. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    I understand your point BUT it is not a matter of scoreboard chasing, if it was, I was not Celestial for months, while it was the under-under-underdog of DPS powers...

    I am just a DPS atm, so I need to do the best possible to help my league.

    AND, it is important to me always improve my skills, gaming for me is about improving, so if I cannot improve my numbers in a powerset, I will re-spec without any guilt.
  19. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    Ok, I did some tests :)

    About WM vs RcW (important - I am use the precision neck mod AND full SC).

    My numbers showed some interesting things.

    If you just spam the 2 of them, RcW is better.

    If you use Annoint and Bene, the 3 scenarios:

    -Against 8 sparring targets, WM is better.
    -Against 3 sparring targets, RcW is better... but not by a great marging.
    -Against 1 sparring target, WM is better.

    I did not try WM vs WcR. Against large groups, maybe WcR will be better, rotating the targets to spread the auras...

    Feel free to test by yourselves and find your conclusions. :)
  20. Remander Steadfast Player

    Yeah, that neck mod really throws a wrench in the works. Still, I was putting out over 4600 effective DPS in Necro tonight with about 2300 base precision. WM may have the edge by a bit, but I'm not going back.