Am I wrong for feeling this way?

I get straight to the point. My patient with raids is running thin. The type of players I played with yesterday and today is just out of control.
You have players that quit in a boss fight with out warnings even when there was no wipe at the time when he or she was playing.
Newest raids are full of unmodded players that expect to be carried. I don't even bother kicking selfish players cause most likely you will get another selfish player that wants to play his way anyway.

And when you finally get a good group of players that replace the bad ones the game starts to lag with multiple of players.

When raids consist of bad players, quitters and lag in the same raid it get un bearable.

At this point ppl feel sp don't matter which I'm not gonna argue about, but when your overwhelmed with unmodded players that expect to be carried is just getting out of hand for me.

Or maybe I just don't fit in with these new type of players. Maybe I could be wrong about players should be modded b4 a raid. I have been gone for 7 months.

Am I wrong for not wanting to play with players that arnt modded any more? I always felt you can take a player seriously when a player put in time with his character by getting certain amount of sp and mods.
I kinda feel like I'm a Dinosaur when it come to this new T7 Generation kind of players.

Just a confused player trying to figure things out

You're not the only one...... It doesn't bother me if they at least have betas, but nothing in the slots (no crits) really irks me. In fact the state of raiding is one of the reasons I have barely played for the last few months.

My league is more casual, so we usually have enough on for alerts, but a raid is hit and miss. So pugging the last couple spots can be a nightmare. Or worse yet, when I join a lfg group of all pugs *shudder* 9/10 you get a group full of people that are self centered, will not take any advice, and kick/leave at the first sign of trouble (wipe) and since raiding is the only real way to progress (whole all bag of potatoes) it leaves very little to do.

I remember in Wotl1, I was working mostly nights, and playing during the daytime, so very rare were league mates on. I was able to pug my tank, troll, and heal to max raid drops, and I even ran it a lot extra on my main as I wanted the OP rings (never did drop...) and we had very few disbands. I mean sure some groups struggled at first, especially when there wasn't enough burn to skip the tubes, but they insisted on it anyways..... but the attitude just wasn't there like it is now.

Now you're farther ahead to see how big of a hole you can make in the wall with your head.......

Everybody has different levels of patience or tolerance for difficult raids.

The last 20 - 30 seconds of this video may be how the other players are feeling during a particularly challenging raid.


Also latency may be a factor as well.

People should at least put some Alpha mods on their gear.

The player quitting is pretty simple.

Not only do players quit when the group wipe.
They also quite if the fight "takes too long" even if there is no wipe.

Sadly for too many players...... if the missions takes more then 15 minutes..... it takes "too long".

Not sure if it is players just being impatient..... or if they are too used to run with wayyyyy overgeared players.
But there is a lot of those.

As for the mods...... ran a long time with various Alts and 0 mods...... and did fine.
Usually when a mission fails....... mods have nothing to do with it.

I don't so much care about sp or mods unless they're just dying a lot and/or don't know what they're doing. You can have geared, modded, and high sp players that just aren't good.

I FEEL you though for the most part. I recently took a break from the game because it just made me angry more than happy. It's as if there's a rush of new players at end game that haven't a clue wtf they're doing. I can run BBS with league in 30 minutes, no wipes, and it's enjoyable.. but as soon as I jump in an lfg group, they can barely clear 2nd boss. Ppl just completely ignoring the mechanics or just don't know them. I try to say something and get crickets or someone talking on the phone in a foreign language. To stop myself from snapping, I just leave and log out. I'm at the point where I won't run raids in pugs anymore.. if league isn't on to run.. then I won't run.. which cuts my playtime down a lot. I refuse to invest money in this game anymore outside of legendary.. and I'm unsure how much longer I'll even pay that.

I ran DC, can't remember if it was reg or elite. But it was 153 tank, me 140 something trolling and two other under 130.....dps and heals.

We managed to make it to raven.

Props to the tank for having a good attitude as each boss fight prior to raven took at least 20 minutes....

I will at least give a four man or raid at least a shot, maybe even a few shots before leaving. I have joined 4 man's and raids where people leave as soon as they enter or someone enters who isn't at suggested cr. That's why I try to always run with my league or allianced league mates. But that is hard at times too as we are scattered across the state.

Order of Importance:
Power
Cr
HT Mods
Normal Mods
SP (Stats don't matter currently at least for dps)

Sometimes you will meet good players who aren't modded and other time you might meet bad player who are modded. Modding has nothing to do with quality of player. How does one convince players who have less then 100sp or no mods that they need to add them when they can top the charts without then.

My 88sp unmodded alt who I rarely play can easily top end game raid dps chart without being death prone. My 220+sp main with near max cr and fully modded struggles for #3 in damage.

Bright side is guy that quit didn't disconnect and force you to use a kick.

I understand the frustration. but there are ways around this. Friends/league. I know it's a cliche at this point, but you simply gotta band together with people you enjoy playing with. It doesn't always pave the way to fun raids, but if you could mix in enjoyable raids with friends a couple times a month, it offers a nice change of pace to the usual pug life.

Another is don't focus on mods/SP so much. A decent player will be of use with or without mods. IMO, the issue is not the mods but simply that the way the game is set up right now, the training grounds for most new players ends up being the end game. There is no indication that that will change any time soon. So if you enjoy the game enough, you have to change your mindset to accept this and or help the new folks when you can. GL.

No matter the game, there are always those looking to be carried. Most join a league, guild, company and have no problem being carried.

This has been my experience, for a lot of raids the real 'skill' is knowing where to stand, when to block or simply a case of not running ahead and aggro-ing everything at once....i'd love to think there are raids that need proper gearing or team structure but they are all too rare.

Yeah that usually is it.

When the player pulls every single mobs this side of the Mississipi and we end up facing wayyyyy too many adds..... it does not matter how many SP the player has or if he has Mods or not.

When the player stands in a pool of fire and do not even attempt to block or roll away....... it does not matter how many SP the player has or if he has Mods or not.

When the player does not want to pull Swampy in the green mist....... it does not matter how many SP the player has or if he has Mods or not.

So.... pretty much 99.999999% of the time....... SP or Mods have nothing to do with the missions being a fail.

As for raid needing proper gearing..... it is all relative.

You can go in a mission undergeared with a good group and succeed.

You can go into a mission with a bad group who are overgeared and still fail.

When it comes to alerts being 15 minutes, and some raids it isn't just the players. The developers created the content to only be about 15 minutes so people just get used to it. I used to play games where raids took hours and an alert like piece of content took more like 45 min to an hour, and it was acceptable.

Its the dps stacking, and the extinction of roles that plays into this.

However, to address the OP, pugging now seems worse than ever. Even easy content seems difficult with bad people in your group, and more and more people are trying to enter content before they should. This started at the 113 content, because the developers allowed people to skip huge amounts of content. So most of our issues are due to poor planning by the development team.

The other issue is people just don't know what they are doing. Some people think we need more tutorials.... I am thinking that the issue is people are created doing dps, the content requires people to dps (solos, duos) far more than any other mmo I have played (most don't have solos or duos)....They should make it so if you have role optional off people are stuck in their roles, and role optional they can change their roles....or tier 1-3 they are stuck in the roles they queue as so they can learn them.

I created an alt and found every group I played with (at level) was clueless.... even the duos....I out dps'd someone that was playing the same power as I was by 3 times and they were 10 cr above me.

People just are more clueless now than ever.

Do you really inspect players? I never do, hehe. I just play.

Sadly I have to agree with everyone, players nowadays give second thought to the mods (gear mods or base mods) because it's all about the cr race. Sure mods may not look important but I feel every stat increase or innate counts especially if you're running raids. It doesn't really matter in solos, duos, or alerts but in raids, that's where you measure a player's skill and if the mods give you that extra edge and it's there for everyone, why not take it.

I agree the mods situation isn't that big its the people quitting in the middle of doing missions is the bigger concern...

This!
I could not agree with you more. Especially when it's a raid that has game mechanics you can't ignore. For example, Bombshells and UM continues to surprise on how some T7 players still don't know what to do.

And time and time again, especially in UM I see players continue standing and continue running their rotation while in the red fire in the 1st boss and when they go down, ask What is hitting them? The 2nd boss, Brother Blood is the best because dps players still go pew pew pew while in the red blood and then get pummeled by ads and still wonder where they came from. And to continue that part of the boss fight, when Brother Blood disables your loadout hud and you have to reactivate it using the bone totems that spawn, the best is when both a support player and dps plauers have their hud disabled and the totem appears, guess who gets to the totem 1st and guess who is running around like a headless chicken, lol.

Technically speaking the highest CR you could be going into Desecrated Cathedral is 131 (thats assuming you're full 112 minus the four pieces of 120 you could have gotten from bombshells). That was roughly the benchmark used to beat the raid into the ground back than. Granted if they were low 120's (under 125) they probably would have been dying alot due to the CR differential. If they were around 128 they should have passed the "deathmark" of that particular instance.

Funny thing about the statement though, Alt's...

So it is important to fully mod both main but with Alt's not so.

If mods are not needed why bother on your main?

It's not like it is needed from both of you all statement.

I can careless for Alt's, but... If it is important for your main why not for your Alt.

Just confusing to me, I feel as though I am reading a do as I say but not as I do moment.

Not wrong at all, there are alot of bad players...