Test Discussion Ally: Future Lex Luthor

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Cardboard, Jun 23, 2022.

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  1. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    I don't think you understand the basic principle of balance. If something like this that is very powerful is released, content itself would be balanced around it to ensure difficulty. This means, content would be adjusted with this passive in mind after devs see every tank run it, making it so that players who do not run this will have an even tougher time in endgame Elite content than they already do.

    This would result in the players who don't have the luxury to waste 7+ hours against a wall of one-shots and humongous health pools to either 100% have to invest in this passive, or have an even tougher time in Elite content than they do already.
    • Like x 3
  2. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    You are asuming that de devs are going to balance that said content around the ally, which at this point is pure speculation on your part.
    Maybe the devs, who have access to the numbers of participation, completion and time invested on that said content have the intent to give Tanks more tools to survive and you know be more "tankier", because right now is utter ridiculous the way Tank players have kite like rodeo clowns and be SS to PD.
    • Like x 5
  3. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    I agree with the way content is that it is ridiculous, but I am very confident in this becoming meta because of how much of a stat boost it would give. 15% dom buffs every time you get below 50% as an Ice or Range tank for example is extremely strong, especially for Ice players. Metas always lead to adjustments to make content harder, it's not just speculation.
    • Like x 2
  4. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    That example (ICE Tanks) could be easily countered by adding more attacks/damage that bypass shields.
    The way Elite+ content is being design its just pure artificial difficulty, that leads to annoyance and frustation. Boss Fights should not take longer than 10-15 mins, and difficulty should come from room mechanics, skull attacks, telegraphed AoE floor attacks, object interactions, DPS checks, etc. Just take a look at Mythic Raiding in World of Warcraft for example, on the hardest level each Boss pull dont last longer than 10 mins because there is an enrage timer. Instead people who have the time on DCUO are setting with 1 shots and Large HP as a definition of dificulty, but that is just another topic that would derail this thread.

    I think this Ally would help a lot of Tanks with the current state of Elite+ SM content on the way, no one is saying that this would not become a BiS Ally for Tanks, but why is that a bad thing on itself? nobody cry foul when BWL was released and became BiS for DPS thanks to the juicy Crit Buff (even if its RNG) but when finally a really strong Ally for Tanks is gonna be released some people says its unbalanced? i just don´t get it, especially when there is less people playing that role for all the reasons mentioned before.
    • Like x 2
  5. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    I think tank balance should come through updates the power, not through an ally. Also, I think a less extreme version of this ally would still help the non meta tank powers w/o forcing everyone to run it. I think people could have and should have cried foul for BWL
    • Like x 4
  6. Proxystar #Perception

    I agree with Hollow Gohan, how is this really helping fix tank balance? The best way to fix tank balance is through updating the powers not releasing an ally and forcing players to pay ~$200 for an ally just to get a fix something that should come to their power at a more fundamental level.

    Also how is this going to shake up the rage/ice meta? Why do you think they don't stand to further gain from this ally themselves? It stands to only result in the meta proportionally moving sideways but still in favor or ice and rage, it isn't going to disrupt the meta at all in my view.

    People play ice, rage and to a large extent fire now because they're the most effective powers to pull off grey range tanking and running away from the ridiculous over powered one shots.

    It is far less efficient to kite when you're stuck constructing Gemstone or doing Qwark aura combos, rather than just popping shield after shield and running.

    Until they stop the ridiculous encouragement of kite tanking and allow tanks to actually tank properly this will continue. If Lex is released like he is here then all tanks regardless of power will be running Superman and Lex in passive and nothing but, if you're suggesting they'll run any others, which one? Flashpoint Batman would be the next most viable but I don't think you'd put him in over the other two, perhaps possibly circumstantially, but those three would be BiS and the only way you then replace them is through another round of power creep.

    Also I agree with Hollow Gohan, I used to assert that no content required these things and I think that's true of normal, but as for elite, I think that content is definitely starting to get balanced around the existence and expectation that elite players will be in possession of these items and I'm not sure that's the right approach.

    Just my thoughts.
    • Like x 4
  7. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    While i agree with this sentence, i think that you are being either naive or intellectually dishonest if you think that is going ever to happen on this game. We already pass that line, we cross the Rubicon, there is no going back; since Stats Revamp most of the Balances and tunning came in form of Artifacts and now Allies, that´s the reality of the game.
    • Like x 4
  8. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    I don't think it is ever going to happen. I'm simply stating that is what should happen. As far as this ally, I'm not against it or its passive, I just think it is too much of a buff. With the way the game is and how they achieve artificial difficulty as you outlined earlier (which it would be pretty naive of you to assume that they will change their approach to difficulty), I can see clearly the repercussions of what 15% dominance and defense increases would mean every time a tank loses their health. It would easily be stronger than every other tank artifact by a lot, aside from manacles (excluding fire and atomic).

    We have a 200 in Everyman Prototype that only buffs tanks when they are below certain health thresholds, and loses those buffs when they are healed up unlike this passive. The numbers on those buffs are also much lower in comparison to this passive. It's only like 6-12% more defense, which goes away when you get healed. This passive gives way more than that, as well as Dominance and Restoration. And still, Everyman is a very good and strong artifact for Fire and Rage when they tank certain content with heavy hitting adds for instance. So, in regards to this passive that gives significantly more stats, and does not even go away when you get healed, I am just in awe that people really think that it would be balanced.

    Knowing that one shots will always exist and this kiting meta seems to be going nowhere, as tanks get stronger, especially the most endgame tanks, I assure you content will get adjusted - specifically elite +. It may make the current elite + easier for tanks, but in order to achieve "appropriate difficulty" things will get adjusted heavily because this passive would make tanks feel much stronger, including the ones that are already strong.
    • Like x 1
  9. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    I really don´t want to derail this thread into a difficulty debate, because i think that convo deserves another whole thread on itself. But i´m pretty sure that their approach on difficulty has been influenced a lot by an small group of players that want to keep the rest of the filthy casuals with no time out their Elite+ SM lawn. That needs to change, because more players are not even trying anymore, or worse, they are starting to speedhack their way to the rewards and feats of said content.

    I agree, and at the same time i say so be it. Ally System is way better and fair than the artifact system, you dont have to deal with the BS success chance or spend money on seals, is just straightforward, you got the exp and alliances and you are done.

    Again, is up to the devs to solve the difficulty issue. "appropriate difficulty" according to who? Then again difficulty comes forward, and you seem to think that the only way to achieve it is making the Tanks run for their lives grey taunting, rolling and hoping to have enough shields to rotate. In this game we had mechanics that make encounters challenging without to resort to cheap one-shots all the time, maybe is time to take a look at those and mix up the difficulty formula.
    • Like x 3
  10. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    Appropriate difficulty according to devs or this group of players you speak of.

    My only opinion is on the ally and my feedback is in regards to balancing it. Everything else, including tanks running for their lives is not my opinion on how to attain difficulty. It's just the true nature of what the game has been and probably will be.
  11. Cardboard Developer

    Hey everyone!

    The following changes have been made to Future Lex Luthor:
    • Made Brainiac Field deal bonus damage to bosses.
    • Added a 30 second cooldown to Exobyte Overdrive.
    • Renamed "Circuit Breaker" to "Breakout Trade"
      • Breakout Trade now works with breakout trinkets.
    • Like x 4
  12. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Seems fair enough, 50% potential uptime on the 1st passive is good compromise IMO.
  13. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    The way Exobyte Overdrive works after the latest patch is weird. It doesn't proc automatically when you get below 50% health now. Instead, it can take quite a while to proc.

    Here is an example:

    I start to get below half-health at 35 seconds. Exobyte Overdrive doesn't proc until the 1:05 mark.
  14. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Is this working right?


    That's a 30% buff and a -30% debuff.

    Do they just cancel each other out? Is Breakout Trade supposed to be a debuff?
  15. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Exactly, 30 secs after your health got a 50%, seems to me like the internal cooldown added is working as a delay timer for the effect to be activated from the moment that was triggered.
  16. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Except it isn't always 30 seconds. Here is an example where it procs almost immediately:

    I start to get around half-health at 37 seconds. Exobyte Overdrive procs at 40 seconds.
  17. NotZetsu New Player

    Nerfing the first passive was counter productive. I thought we were making tanking more appleaing for players.
    • Like x 1
  18. Rahkayo Active Player

    Yea 1st passive changes need to be reverted
    • Like x 1
  19. August Moon Well-Known Player

    To be fair ,they did at one point post revamp try to rebalance tanks again. ......theres a reason why fire and rage are the only to predominate powers that you see right now. fire's immolation change was exactly what it needed, niw its practically the pinnacle of a good tank. going as far as to be able to face tank the 3 in swe while rage with the proper finesse and mastery can take off a whole side of gear or all of their arts and still be able to tank the 3. Ice can barley do unless they have the right set up with healers , atomic may be able to hold them but its sort of inconsistent and earth........

    this ally wont get rid of the problem , its just a band-aid to a gash. it doesnt fix it but i guess it helps/ but i dont see them doing that huge overhaul again. And the way elite content is now its going to become too much for tanks to handle, even with kiting. You know its bad when a week or 2 after launch they had to nerf quite literally everything in elite, hell the last survival mode was such a sudden upcurve passed round 15+ that they had to nerf it
  20. Rahkayo Active Player

    Yea this ally would be very beneficial for earth tanks. Earth tanking gets no love let alone brick tanking. When is brick going to be updated like every other pet to make it stop spamming jack hammer on already taunted targets. Just remove that skill from brick please.
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