Allow inspect into SP

Don't lie. Make your own party? Stop being lazy? I don't favor exclusion. Thats another negative assumption. I favor freedom. Not quarantining the world because a few people can't handle not playing with people they supposedly despise.

Me? Condescending?

Sure, ok.

I don't remember ever painting my opinion as the only one that counts. I'm not the one thinking a person's SP should be out on display for everyone to see. I'm against SP inspection because of a host of reasons that just seems to make the most sense, even when I played Devil's Advocate in my head about the pros for it. I never said you personally are for it to grief people or whatever you want to use in my posts to pick apart, but you are free to make that assumption.

Besides, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think you're a bad guy or anyone else that shares your opinion, or else I would call you out by name. I mean, just because you would use this for good purposes, can you say the same for another? The abuse that this would incite would be more than the purposed good you think it might bring; if anything, that is what I'm against. And I'm also just as informed in my thoughts against it as you are in yours to defend it. Although, please enlighten me on how inclusive judging people's ability to be allowed into groups by SP amount would be.

You have every right to run with whoever you feel comfortable with whatever metric you want to use. Not everyone feels like they should have to provide that information, and if you want to exclude them from your experience, go for it.

...

I guess that (hopefully) covers it. Who knows.

I am saying so what if you do or don't, it will not stop you from playing with friends and league mates or others that feel the same way you and I feel about it, unless your friends and league mates only want those players that meet those requirements.

Fair enough

People dont lie for no reason. And one of the main reasons people lied about Sp/ect is because certain groups of people have let their egos rise so high, they feel as though only those who have as much as them are worthy of playing with them. Get real, when it comes down to it, you're just a regular person outside of the game who invested more time into detailing your characters than others. I dont know why people feel like theyre superior status wise in a video game. So you've got 180+ sp, good for you; congrats on your accomplishment. However not everyone is you. We pay to overcome the restrictions we have, to play more content. Why should we be subjected to player induced restrictions?

If you want to see someone's sp thats fine, but if the opposing player doesnt want to, you've got no right to be frustrated, because just as you wanted to see, the other player wanted not to show you. You cant force players to show you anything they dont want to. And it seems as though you are finding roundabout ways to prove your point, avoiding the issue at hand. As it is now, you can ask and someone can choose whether or not to respond. But if it were implemented where everyone can see, you're taking that option away, making it so anyone can see regardless of whether or not the other player wants to or not. And based on the screwed up system of belief that high sp = high skill, it would lead to more exclusion.

Judge based on performance not numbers alone. And there is indeed a way to see if someone is doing their job. If a certain player is underperforming, be it Dying too much and not doing enough damage to suffice for their role(i.e dps doing lower damage than a tank) then they arent holding up their weight and yeah it'd be ok to kick, a troll that does nothing. No power, Cc/ stuns or debuffs at all troll wise. Tank not fufilling his role. Healers not healing ect. There are ways to judge perfomance. Speculating based on superficial numbers is not one of them. Give it a chance before you condemn.

Consuela should be an NPC easter egg in the FOC raid.

I protect my virtual privacy every day. I would hope you do as well. Failing to do so has very dangerous real world consequences. As to privacy as it relates to the game, it may not be serious but it is certainly not crazy if someone is concerned about theirs.

This.

This

Why would anyone lock the thread? This has been a VERY civil discussion. Your opinion on whether or not it is pointless is irrelevant. Obviously a lot of people find the discussion interesting enough.

People don't exclude for no reason. And again. Optional. Not going to read your posts if you don't read mine.

How does one "know" when someone is lying about their skill points? Unless they later admit to it there is no way to know.

Oh i read your post friend. Sure it can be made optional, but isnt it optional enough as it is? If its too much for you to read id be delighted to break it down for you. Again people lie as a result of some type of negativity. Im not endorsing lying but i am empathetic to the feeling of being excluded without even getting a chance to prove how good you truly are. I also understand when you get higher amounts of sp, if you feel like someone isnt doing enough its frustrating. I know what its like on both sides of the spectrum, and i know how unfair it is, not only to be excluded just based on speculation but to be weighed down by lazy or underperforming players. And as a result of this experience i always try to give everyone a chance before i feel they should be kicked or ect.

Now, if you still can get the point i implore, i encourage, i URGE you to block me already. And if you choose to do so i'd appreciate if you did so without responding; be it a genuine okay or a cute remark. I dunno how its hard to understand that lying doesnt emerge from no where. There is always a cause. Egos and feelings of superiority lead to excluding players you dont feel meet Your requirements. In turn, lies came about just so people could enjoy the game. Now have a great day, i have more supplies to store before i head out. Nice chatting with you.

There is no option.

We have a very inclusive mindset in my league. And we do grab the occasional PUG. Sometimes quite a few. We ask a few questions.

1. Is your CR high enough to qualify for this run? Don't need to know it. Just if you're allowed to run it.

2. Have you run this instance before? If not let us give you a brief over view.

3. If you're a troller What's your VIT.......for determining PoT.

ihave 174 sp and i can say its very important. its a big diffrence in damage, healing, trolling, and tanking. gear means nothing i can out dps, heal troll people with full 92 in 90 gear by millions. to me sp is the most important thing on dc. thats my opinion tho

Lord Cake USPS Villan
PVE
resto 4301
might 4400
prec 1982

Oh but there is. Its called asking. You have an option whether or not to ask. Likewise there is also an option whether or not to tell a person how many X you have. A thing that is or maybe chosen is the definition of option, and people are already asking free of choice correct? Now those asked can choose whether or not to respond. If sp were visible people wouldnt even have to ask no? All they would have to do is inspect and make decisions based on that, with or without consent. And more often than not, if you dont reveal, people would assume you have a low amount. Now does that sound fair? And if you're planning to respond with. "Life's not fair" i'll take liberty to say that this is a game, not the real world.

See what i did? You might notve even been thinking that yet i assumed. That gives me a negative impression doesnt it? That im quick to judge and assume without evidence or proof of otherwise. This issur is a similiar situation

Thats not an option. People lie. You can say if we allow EVERYONE to see SP then you have the option to ask people not to look. And they may agree, but they'll probably lie. You can not chose to see the factual truth. There is no option. Okay, this is a game. No privacy.

"I do know how to form efficient groups".
Well, Are you forming them NOW?
If your answer is something like "As long as people don't lie and we have VETS we can acomplish anything..." that's why i stated you only know how to be Carried and "Do Not Know How To Form Efficient Groups"
All you are saying is YES I CAN, BUT I DON'T NEED TO PROVE IT

"somewhat legitimate claim here is privacy" (...) I think it's a completely ridiculous claim
That's your opinion, not even an argument. i said your points are ridiculuos but i explained why
Specially, if you want to force unto others something at your own discretion and convenience, disregarding the exclusion it brings unto others, it is a bit above ridiculuos (more twisted)

"So then make it private".
IT is, (you noticed )

"If it is YOUR PRIVACY you can control it."
True, EVERYONE decide if they want to share it or not, Even WHEN asked



"People lying makes efficiency less efficient"
You are uncomprehensive of what efficiency truly means, you are just saying "as long as people tell me what i want to know i will make right decisions regarding if i want to play with them or not"; Not Knowing Players Skills is where Efficiency actually comes into play, the way you work around that shows how effective MMO player you ARE,

Lots of ridiculuosnes about MMO people think that means "Show Your Info", instead of "Social Game"

If you met a Beautiful Girl you get attracted to and she tells you she had a boyfriend but eventually you realize she didn't,

Did she lie or was she protecting herself? It's not her faul, a random stranger just WANT to know and just EXPECT TO KNOW, think if it was your Sister or Daughter and you Are Not Around, if she got suspicious she had all the right to not Trust You, and the one at Fault for not getting the information You Wanted is YOU.

And You are still avoiding the Question,
when i said "WHEN DID YOU RECIEVED THE RIGHT TO KNOW?"
You were meant to Counter Why should People Be Forced To ANSWER,
If you think asking for SP is Correct or having the Visible SP Option won't bring exclusion, i would love to hear those reasons

yOU SAID, and i quote, that SP helps because:
"More SP, more Time"
That's all it says, THAT'S YOUR BIG POINT
You want to create a Bulling Tool and Violate Privacy Rights because you want to play with People who has being around For Long Time and you Request a Number that doesn't even Tell you That

"And yes, when you apply to do something you want and people want a resume or reasons to hire you or let you join their club they are allowed to ask that and ask you to PROVE that. If you don't want to?"
The tool is not for HIS NUMBERS, But ALL and Everyone

Ooooohh but you said "make it optional"

It wont be OPTIONAL,
Because once the option is there you have to deny it,
You Get into SM and ask to Check SP,
What's going to happen if someone refuse because "IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINES"
"Would you decide wether to try it out or kick?"
it's not wether someone actually gets kicked or not is wether the OPTION is in the Plate,
One doesn't were a Helmet because he gets hit on the head when doesn't have it but because of Safety Reasons,
The mere fact that option is there has the potential for Bullyng
You may say you don't mind if other people are excluded because you will be fin, THAT'S the very Reason of why the discussion is taken place, because that state of mind is sickening

You KEEP saying "PEOPLE LYING"...People is not LYING, they are protecting their interest before an Impolite Question,
That's as stupid as saying "i no longer tried chating online because i always ask a woman for their looks and they lie", it's not a right, PEOPLE Honesty is something you have to EARN, and if that is all it takes to get someone from Chatting Online, the world is a Better Place,

Secondly, you need to grow up,
You pretend you can form groups when you complain that it can't be done because "people lie"
Stop blaming others, look into the mirror and MAN UP,

I PUG, i run with my league and i have fun making nice groups; if you can't do that is because You Lack Skills, so train a little More

You are trying to favor freedom by alienating others, that's twisted,

An OPTIONAL SP is the same, because it Affects PUGs As Well,
What you are asking is a tool that allows you look into the SP of other People You Are Inviting
But We don't want Anyone to Have that Options, BECAUSE it Doesn't come from OURd wanting to Share but OTHERS MEDDELING,
Don't Meddle with our Private Info, it's twisted, WE DON'T WANT A STRANGER TO EVEN HAVE THAT OPTION; because it gives you a decision wether we do or don't; that should be our call never YOURS or Anyone Else

Add the options to put into the ignore list to everyone who uses that TOOL and we might get common Ground, but make it account based so we can be sure we will never get any of your toons close to ours, that might actually be favored

The first thing you want to know of someone is THEIR SP

Why is it that the first question is not AGE, Religion, Highschool, Marital Status, Income... when you first met someone
Only a twisted mind would like to be able to check those things without first knowing a person, and Even Then...DUDE YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES


Again, PROVE which FEATS acknowledge Ability,
You are not asking for how long they have play the game but SP anyway so...