Adding an option to play old instance without stats clamped would just solve everything

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Jason Martin, Sep 6, 2021.

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  1. The Con Well-Known Player


    If you turned the game on only to find that a virus has deleted your character, account, and history...

    You would feel a sense of loss for that which you "owned".

    You wouldn't just shrug your shoulders with a "Well... I wasn't really mine, anyways."

  2. Mentaldope40 Committed Player

    That's an emotional attack, because you don't own them, Daybreak do, and when the game shuts down, our characters go down as well, we owned the ideas, the creation of the characters.;)
    • Like x 4
  3. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    You don't need to feel, or have, ownership to feel a sense of loss in it. This is a true strawman argument.
    • Like x 2
  4. the solowing Devoted Player

    When i stopped playing DCUO, i didnt ask Daybreak to refund all my money for the investment i put into it. What goes into the character while i spent my time here, stays here. Money/ Time/ Investment.

    Its Daybreaks assets, im simply allowed access to use them, and i have no ownership of this variation of my characters here.
    • Like x 4
  5. The Con Well-Known Player


    You're fighting an argument that no one is making.

    THAT is what a strawman is.

    You feel loss because you lost something that was... yours.

    I'm argument is that you just ignore that fact for the sake of sycophancy.
    • Like x 3
  6. The Con Well-Known Player

    • Like x 1
  7. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    When a friend of mine dies... my loss is because they were mine? A connection to something doesn't imply ownership. I'm not fighting an argument nobody is making. I'm fighting your argument of perceived ownership of a character.
    • Like x 2
  8. Mentaldope40 Committed Player

    It's obvious that you do given the nature of your point with bringing up your investment into your character, if your character was to get erased by a bug/glitch today, the developers or you couldn't do squat, you can't ask for all of your money back or nothing but they would try to compensate you however they can. Which points back to the point "it's not all about you" you invest in your character? cool, but so did we.
    • Like x 2
  9. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    Except you are, by arguing you have a perceived ownership in said characters. It begs the necessity of their being implied ownership of the character. Perception is caused by implication or it is baseless. In the end, you are one user, they are looking for new users and returning existing users. They made a choice based on their belief that it was the best thing for the future of the game. They could be wrong, they could reverse course, I agree with the choice being made, you do not. If they reverse it, I can't pull the perceived ownership card on them and it be a relevant argument either.
    • Like x 2
  10. bull425 Well-Known Player

    Why remove stat clamp? I have run many raids, yes, takes more time, but it has allowed for roles to re-emerge rather than burn burn burn. Glad it’s here. No options to remove let it be. Player base will adjust.

    btw I still feel heroic
    • Like x 5
  11. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    This is been my experience as well.
    • Like x 3
  12. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    Bad take. If by "nothing" you mean thousands of $$ since the game went live, sure. You're not going to win this argument by pretending a consumer's money doesn't count because you like a change to the game but they don't. We paid for a service =/= we own anything and implying that is a strawman. It sounds like you have a TOS argument up your sleeve next.

    When a consumer pays for a good or service they're entitled to have it delivered as expected. If not, we call that a bait & switch or false advertising. In this case, what's delivered amounts to a renegotiation of terms. They've diminished what they offered us for the past 10 years. Just because it's a game doesn't mean you automatically have no recourse or should consider any money you spend on a game a black hole that can steal your money at any time. There are still consumer standards that are relevant. Although the gaming industry evolved ahead of a lot of countries' consumer protections, so this varies from region to region. It's just silly to think people should just accept it and shutup. They shouldn't. And given the litigious nature of the US I'm sure at some point this type of practice will be brought under scrutiny and ended. Until then, consumers should speak out about it and definitely not accept it.

    The need for roles never left the game. Players chose to ignore them when the content wasn't relevant to them anymore for a quicker run through. Because it's fun to smash through irrelevant content and see your progression expressed in gameplay.

    Right now the content is being played and slowed because it's the only "relevant" content in the game. When the next DLC comes out no one will play the old content at all and it will be dead. Understanding the development behind a game is also about predicting future outcomes of choices based on your understanding of the player and human nature. The better you are at that, the better you are at development.

    No. Investment doesn't automatically imply ownership. Google it. When we discuss time or energy spent we also use the term "investment".
    • Like x 3
  13. the solowing Devoted Player

    5.4. Virtual Items. Daybreak sells a variety of virtual items (“Virtual Items), which are digital objects such as armor, weapons, adornments, furniture, pets, mounts, potions, etc. that end users can acquire and use for entertainment purposes in the Daybreak Games. Please note that Virtual Items are not chattel and you do not acquire any ownership rights in the Virtual Items. When you purchase or otherwise acquire any Virtual Item in any Daybreak Game(s), Daybreak is providing you a limited license to use the Virtual Item in such Daybreak Game for personal, non-commercial purposes. Daybreak may sell Virtual Items through an in-game marketplace, a website, and/or a mobile app. Virtual Items may be sold for Virtual Currency or real world money, at Daybreak’s sole and absolute discretion. Please note that not all Virtual Items are available for purchase. Some Virtual Items can be acquired only through gameplay (e.g., by completing quests, killing non-player characters (NPCs), crafting, spending certain points or in-game currency, etc.), or through certain promotions we offer. Daybreak reserves the right to add, modify, remove, suspend and reintroduce Virtual Items in the Daybreak Games, in-game marketplaces, and promotional offers, and to change the prices and/or difficulty of obtaining Virtual Items, at any time in its sole and absolute discretion. Such changes may impact the effectiveness, functionality, and/or commonalty of the Virtual Items. As a result, the value and desirability of a Virtual Item may significantly increase or diminish over time. By purchasing a Virtual Item license you assume the risk of any such changes and agree never to assert any claim against Daybreak based on the actual or perceived value, or change in value, of a Virtual Item. Some Virtual Items may be tradable to other end users as part of the Daybreak Game. However, except as may be expressly permitted by Daybreak in its sole and absolute discretion, selling or otherwise transferring Virtual Items in exchange for real world money or monetary value is not allowed. Virtual Items acquired through the in-game marketplace are nonrefundable, have no cash value and are not redeemable and/or refundable for any sum of money or monetary value from us.

    You work in the Industry, you should know this.
    • Like x 3
  14. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    That one aged well.

    I do. That's how I'm able to explain what I just walked you through.

    TOS terms do not shield a company from a region's laws. Maybe you didn't know that. For example, a company can't have a TOS that excludes them from liability for doing something specifically against local consumer laws. They can, actually, but it's invalid because local laws supercede a company's own arbitrary and self imposed TOS. A company can't use a TOS to allow their consumer to agree to be defrauded exploited and so on -- not saying that's happening here. Just pointing out the absurdity of using a TOS argument.

    Like I explained, the game industry evolved ahead of consumer laws so they haven't caught up in all regions around the world. Their TOS only shields them from liability in regions that don't have consumer protection laws already in place -- and in these situations they can still be challenged by someone willing to see it through.

    Since you like "sources" if you'd like I can refer you to my own attorney to ask him questions. He specializes in game industry litigation. You can hit him up on Twitter (he's very friendly and helpful) and ask him stuff you don't understand and want answers to probably. If you ask him to cite his sources though, he'll probably laugh you off -- just a headsup.
    • Like x 3
  15. the solowing Devoted Player

    So... Daybreak's lawyers and legal teams making god know how much money on the companies payroll to protect their assets, let an easily exploitable ToS exist for years.

    Or, you are dead wrong...Also i like how you completely disregarded the highlighted point..

    Especially the part where it said, "if the value of something drops, you cant complain about it"
  16. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    TOS are a generic set of terms drawn up by their lawyer (like the one I offered to refer you to) intended to cover them from trivial litigation -- basically discourage legal inquiries. Those TOS still have to operate inside a country and follow local laws. Corporations are not countries or nations and don't operate outside the law.

    Or I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Again, would you like a referral? Click here OR here OR here
    • Like x 1
  17. the solowing Devoted Player

    If its between the ToS and you. I believe the ToS.

    To be honest, id rather have a green to clarify, also to see what you will say, if they dont agree with you.
    • Like x 4
  18. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    You've misinterpreted the TOS. It doesn't mean what you think it means. That's the point. smh For clarity, no one is arguing they can't make the changes. It's just not a shield from consequences. Players are still entitled to be upset and respond by either ending their part of the contract or pursuing it further and challenging it.

    But hey, you're free to make your own mistakes. Carry on.

    An attorney outranks any green name here, and you've already been given a referral to one.
    • Like x 3
  19. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    Its notable, that back when I was a newer player, back in 2014 (the second time, but really first time I really tried on the site) I was against stat clamping for similar reasons as to why people are now. Its notable in 2014, there were hundreds of low level characters on and still high leveled players were destroying the lower instances for new players... I just thought separating the ques was a valid option then. Experience with other MMO's and reality settling in that this doesn't have the population to separate ques like that changed my mind. Its also interesting, proxy also was on the side against stat clamping in debates back then. When I came back to the forums in 2017... I was for stat clamping and have been since, but now I'm 100% convinced its absolutely necessayr. New information, new opinion.
    • Like x 1
  20. the solowing Devoted Player

    This guy?
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