Adding an option to play old instance without stats clamped would just solve everything

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Jason Martin, Sep 6, 2021.

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  1. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    Solowing, I'm getting to some of his older videos and I'm liking them all so far. ty. gg
    • Like x 2
  2. King Bakes Well-Known Player

    Firstly, I said IMO. I didn't say it was a fact that this update will have a huge positive impact on the game's future.

    And you're correct that only the newer content offered source marks... but that doesn't actually have an impact on what I was saying whatsoever. The comment I made that you just referred to is about veteran players not new players. Most vet players I know are actually at the point where source marks are (were) near enough useless and we have thousands stacked up due to the fact we have max arts, all styles etc. And therefore have nothing to spend source marks on. The MAIN reason why I said we had nothing to do was because we've completed all feats in old episodes so realistically the only thing to do was get as much of the new currency as possible to then buy the new rewards that they introduce every month or so.

    As I said above, until this episode source marks were useless for me and many others. Now that this update has happened I actually have things to spend source marks on (pets etc). So if I wanted to farm source marks then yeah I could re-run old content to farm them. But again, my post wasn't predominantly about source marks anyways. And either way, I'd much rather 'earn' the source marks by participating in content that actually requires some effort rather than simply going into instances and one-shotting everything.

    I really feel like most people that have issues with the clamp are actually people who suck at mechanics. This could be because they themselves don't want to learn mechanics. Or maybe they know the mechanics but decide to blind queue rather than queuing up with a league or an LFG group and then get put with people who don't know mechanics and don't want to listen. Either way, I don't see any valid excuses to get rid of the stat clamp tbh.
    • Like x 3
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    Have I opposed getting feats in unclamped instances for 10 years?

    No, not at all, it was the system that was in place, I wasn't opposed to it and in fact my track record of opinion would verify that this was always a concern of mine. I knew full well all along that within a clamped system "feats would be the primary pressure point".

    Like you say people have always gone back to get the more difficult feats when they over-powered them, that's how the game, at the time was structured, I begrudge no one for doing so nor do I think they were doing anything wrong, what I would say also though, is that obviously all the feats introduced in the game are evidentally still 'possible' to achieve at level.

    A player is only restricted from getting a feat, based on either their own skill capacity or the skill capacity of those individuals around them within an instance, the expectation of skill was then somewhat loosened through over-powering the content allowing players with less skill to accomplish that, which they previously could not or and this important could not achieve because the people they relied on within the instance were not as skilled.

    With that point being established, the key question and issue being raised here presents itself, "how easy should it be or become and how much should a player eventually over-power an instance in order to obtain a feat".

    Under the previous system, people could virtually progress to the point where they could face-roll the feats by themselves and become entirely independent of anyone else in the group eliminating their reliance upon another persons lack of skill or a co-ordinated group could get feats they may not have otherwise got earlier because their power has increased.

    A blunt example of this are feats that stem around a burn check - take "stake well done" or "raving mad" as the classic examples, as you progress those feats become easier because your damage output increases, your ability to survive increases and so on and so forth.

    I am not realistically opposed to the previous system that we had, but I am however, open to the prospect and honest thought that, "perhaps it had gone too far", so much so that the effort required and point behind the feat had been entirely diminished.

    If that's what we're actually doing, effectively almost just working through the formality of handing a person the feat for almost nothing, then perhaps we should just be putting old feats on the marketplace for $1 each, it's just as effortless and at least it would be supporting the game?

    The devs having gone through these changes, have ultimately said to all of us, we don't want the feats to be "that easy".

    Now the important part here is that when they've done this, they've not said at all you won't progress and find these feats easier, that's is entirely incorrect and I know there are people around here pedaling that misinformation, but they're wrong.

    Under the stat clamped system you do still "feel more powerful" than you were when the content you are running was new, the feats are still "easier" than they were when the content was new, it's just not going to be "as easy as it was pre clamp" but that's only because pre clamp you could basically 'sneeze' and obtain a feat.

    When Mepps told you they had no plans for "stat clamping or "go back and get feats later they will be easier", he didn't do or say anything wrong, he told you what he knew at the time and it remains true at the time.

    Also if you take the statement of "go back and get feats when they're easier" or even "go back and get them when you're more powerful" that remains true also, you are still more powerful now than you were when any of this content was new.

    if and when Wonderverse moves off into the clamped sunset, you will know for sure because you have a very recent 'benchmark' you have now progressed through 2.5 subsequent DLC's (Legion, Flashpoint, SaveUniverse) you'll be able to go in to Wonderverse and get a good feel for how easy it is and reference that to how hard it felt when you remember Wonderverse being new.

    You already know that Wonderverse is by far easier today than it was 12 months ago (or however roughly long ago) it was when it came out, those feats within Wonderverse are already easier today than they were 12 months ago.

    If that remains the same then I have to question where the issue is? The primary question then remains the same "how much easier, does a feat need to become"? You can of course decide that for yourself.
    • Like x 5
  4. The Con Well-Known Player

    This is true... I overstated by using "definite"... which you did not apply.

    Apologies for overstepping your opinion.

    As far as "mechanics vs power"... We'll never see it eye to eye... as I worried about mechanics when they were relevant to the level we were playing at the time.

    We move past that worry as we progress.... and I don't see the fun (or longevity of the game) of having it be never-ending.

    I don't see a valid reason to have initiated in the first place.

    If you want mechanics... Do elite.
    If you want challenge... Don't wear endgame armor.
    If you don't want to be carried by end-gamers... Form your own group of peers.

    Leave others to play the game that they want/earned it to be played.
    • Like x 1
  5. King Bakes Well-Known Player

    I'm curious, why do you 'worry' about mechanics? That makes it sound as if you're one of the people who struggle with them.

    But yeah I agree mechanics are for elite... Is that not the case though with or without the stat clamp? Only difference is, with the stat clamp people actually HAVE to do the mechanics in elite now. Whereas before you could one-shot everything so mechanics were essentially non existent.

    As I said in my previous post, IMO the game never should have reached a point where being a one-shot god was even an option. So we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

    I believe that no one should be baby carried through content. I think every person should have to 'hold their own' to an extent no matter whether it's elite or non elite content. The arguments you just made after you said 'I don't see a valid reason to have initiated in the first place' gives me the impression you are one of the players who like to be baby carried through content.

    I'll explain why I think this stat clamp is going to be extremely beneficial to the game. As it stands I really feel like most vet players only run elite content with select groups - meaning they run with their friends and leagues and no one else. This means that newer players, or even players who are fairly experienced at the game, aren't able to complete endgame elite content. This could be due to a lack of skill or maybe lack of knowledge of mechanics. The only way these players will get better is if they're actually tested in content - but obviously it'd be nice if they're able to complete the content too. This is why I really like the stat clamp. It's going to improve the skills of so many players which will be nice to see and it means more people will be completing elite endgame content. If the stat clamp didn't happen, tons of players would never learn a single mechanic and they'd forever be bad at the game. Whereas now, they can enter old content and learn plenty whilst still being reasonably powerful.
    • Like x 3
  6. Proxystar #Perception

    You do still continue to get more powerful in the forum of artifacts, augments and stat points bleeding through the clamp. In the current iteration of the clamp you are already more powerful in that content than you were when that content was new.

    You do not need to 'worry' about the mechanics as much as you did when the instances were at level, but not 'worrying about the mechanic as much' is not the same as 'ignoring the mechanic', you should not be able to just 'outright ignore the mechanic' so much so to the extent that it may as well never exist.

    You tell people that if they want mechanics, they should do elite, what I would tell you though, is that 'normal' isn't designed to be 'absent of mechanics', elite has 'additional mechanics' not just 'mechanics'.

    You don't get to face-roll things just because they're of 'normal' difficulty
    • Like x 4
  7. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    Were you someone who routinely played event versions or normal versions?
    • Like x 2
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    Clearly, it was event

    • Like x 2
  9. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    Yeah, when i have suggested ditching DX9 and making a DX11 build. I was not interested in a new style change. I was interested in performance improvements. The style is great.... form the old content to the new, great.
  10. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    Are macros disrupted by other button presses? I woulds guess, yes. If u see me in game, i'm jumping around the enemy always. Debuff that one, now that one. Oh no tank to pull them together. Jump then debuff defense stat... and damage. Jump and debuff damage output and damage. Have the artifact and it being ranked to do so. Heal debuff because the group benefits from having 3 debuffs active. Boost dame output. A controller is a good asset. Besides having power distributed to the team spending it necessarily. There are less power hungry builds and some optimize builds for most possible damage, then if might build that uses lots of power... there may be cooldowns you'd rather not have. A Controller power out immediately button has a cooldown. Try a less power hungry build? One that includes an ability that amplifies the damage of another ability.

    example Mental power:
    • Horrific Visage: Power Interactions : Terrifies enemies, making them vulnerable to Terrified effects.
    • Then use Psychic Shock, Phantom Flames, Mass Terror, . Power Interactions: Terrified enemies take additional damage.
    I think every power has two conditions they put on an enemy that gives them a boost for another related ability. Read the descriptions in-game of the abilities. @those that will never visit the forum or read on screen text messaging of a combat experience tell from a boss, or less likely to notice a change in the color of the ground for some odd reason during a fight with an NPC. [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  11. Jack T. Chance Loyal Player

    We had that, with walk-in portals for some of them. They were planning to keep adding more, but then something broke in the game on the last one they implemented, so they had to deactivate it, and just gave up on fixing it and trying to implement more. :(
    • Like x 1
  12. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    Well said. This has beey experience as well.
    • Like x 1
  13. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    for the point made about the execs vs the devs.
    plus the other bit about nicer graphics for free... i may be reading into it as being a as an improved performance when it does not apply. Any chance to push DX11 for a very old game using DX9, I will promote in untraditional ways when available.
  14. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    Let me be clearer than I previously was: when I say that I'd like clamping to be optional, I'm absolutely fine with the only reward for unclamped instances/bounties being nothing but the fun of being able to do it.

    That's all I miss now and fixing that would make me happy. I mean, my whole point is that I miss the fun of feeling my Full Power against formerly impossible enemies. I never, speaking only for myself, said that I wanted any kind of reward on top of having that fun.

    I really can't see how giving that option could possibly hurt the game, save for, obviously, the developer time needed to implement an un-clamped un-rewarded option. Nor do I know why anyone would have a problem with such an option, again stipulating that there are developer-hours that would need to be paid.

    But such a system could easily be rolled out on a "as we can get to it" basis. Start with allowing the option for one bounty. Then another. Then one raid. Etc.

    So far as I'm concerned -- and unlike half the forum, I don't claim to speak for anyone besides myself -- if the devs went down the road I outline, Bob would be my uncle.

    Am I talking crazy here?
    • Like x 2
  15. The Con Well-Known Player

    More on the lines of "concerning myself with" as opposed to "be anxious about"....

    And THAT is why I think it will be detrimental to the game.

    Vet players will still only run with select groups - meaning they run with their friends and leagues and no one else.... Only now with some (dare I say most) pissed that they're now being clamped in older material...
    • Like x 1
  16. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    And I'm just fine with that!

    When did I ask for anything other than the option of having that fun?

    What's so wrong about allowing it?
    • Like x 2
  17. Proxystar #Perception

    Nothing is wrong with allowing 'fun', I'm not at all opposed to implementing an option to 'opt out' of clamping if the sole objective is fun.

    When we start talking about actually receiving reward then the debate start to swing a little more towards 'errr perhaps not'. :)

    I wasn't saying 'you' were asking for anything, specifically, I was merely responding to your response with a general statement.
    • Like x 3
  18. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player

    So rewards without working for it?

    Pretty sure the years of going from CR0 to CR 342, maxed artifacts, augs, etc., learning the meta for every new content, and beating it all along the way constitutes "worked for it."

    So what's wrong with getting to go back and enjoy being super powerful in old low level content you already worked to surpass Especially as doing just that was part of the game many people signed on for and have paid for, in many cases, years and years? Why is that wrong or such a threat? Why must they give up what they paid for and worked for? Why must they be happy with it?

    • Like x 3
  19. Proxystar #Perception


    Because people were ruining the content for others, on a number of occasions for nothing other than their own subjective fun, never mind the other people in there also trying to have fun, subsequently not having fun because you're killing everything including bosses in 0.5s and in the worst case scenario outright breaking it and preventing everyone from finishing, including yourself.

    The only other primary reason people were in there was for feats and again as pointed out, although there was nothing inherently wrong with doing that because it was the system you were presented with, doesn't mean it's necessarily what's best for the game long term.

    The developers have now decided you're going to have to do more to earn those now and at least somewhat comply with mechanics, it's certainly still not as hard as originally, it's just not as face-roll pathetically easy as it was unclamped.

    You seem to have a distorted view of ownership with regard to your Daybreak account and in game character and items you purchase and/or earn. I'll let you in on a little secret, come in close, I don't want anyone else to hear...

    • Like x 5
  20. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player

    Waiting for you to actually address the questions...




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