A simple solution to put an end to the stat clamp !

The solution is, I think, a simple one. All we need to do is put an end to the annoying chore of upgrades!

So the advantages given by the DLC augments would be given after the purchase of 2 pieces of equipment. If you need to, buy the full purple stuff to get the first benefit. As for the SP assigned, either remove them or make them compatible with this new method, which I think would be more judicious.

So that could make it possible to remove this clamp or let's face it Daybreak did everything backwards by adding the augments first and then subjecting us to this greatly hated stat clamp !!!

Other think for this, what was once used for the augments could be replaced by a kind of NTH booty, obtaining NTH needs to be improved!

The best way to remove the clamp you have to remember that there's a lot of content in the game collecting dust. Everybody wants to feel powerful again. Here we have a very old game many vets and players have been here for 13 years have already got everything they need. How would you make those players come back and become sticky as well as keeping new players sticky? Well it's a simple one everything we know about the clamp is counterproductive meaning what's the point in progression? The more base stats you have the more clamp you eat. How do we make players feel stronger again and bring back all this content that's been collecting dust? Well it's simple clamp the artifact system and the ally system. Bring gear 2.0 and feats 2.0 relaunch to the game. Everyone gets to use a lot more artifacts this time around and allies they'll all be clamped. meaning a lot more options for playstyles and you'll never have to worry about finding roles needed for content. Everything will be self-sufficient no need to make groups and use lfg other then feat runs

A new player should not have to pay to win to feel progression and neither should players who have been here for 13 years. It's wrong and it's a bad look on the game. It was absolutely devastating to see the game go down this direction and it's only a matter of time before the population drops and never picks back up as we are already in that situation

Before the stat clamp and the artifacts, the game was enough for people, but now that the game has become a job, we've lost a huge number of players, if you look closely and as I say, they've done everything backwards. Before, the objective was simple, it was the SP now the SP, who cares because the artifacts are replacing that, what's the point of people coming back/staying if the SP are virtually worthless?

When I say that the managers have done everything backwards, that's what I said in the previous post, they've put in augments and artifacts, only to restrict the overall stats, which is really ridiculous given that they've increased the arte from 160 to 200. lol

The best games that work today are the ones that set the equipment CR and make SP a continuity of power to acquire!

Now they've tried to punish the players for their own mistakes...

I mean to be honest fixing the skill tree is very simple. I mean if you really really want a sticky player base all they would have to do is take the cap out of the skill tree instead of raising it by 15 every episode. The last two rows is part of the clamp aswell you'll feel the clamp fall off in episode 48 when the cap goes up by 15 points. The 10% per point will scale bigtime this time around. The clamp was only intended to last for so long in the skill tree that's why they only lift the cap by 15 points each ep. They wanted to run the clamp aslong as they could in the lasts two rows. if they wanted to fix the gear system all they would have to do is put a little bit more stats on the elite gear it's Criminal how Elite gear stats are so close to regular gear. And if that's too hard to do at least make Elite plus gear so people who are extremely experienced can feel powerful again. With that said if we continue down this road we'll have vets one shot reg content by episode 50. Which isn't a bad thing it just sucks they added clamps to slow us down for this long.

For instance at Max CR prec dps single target on sparring target average damage out in 10 seconds is 2.6mil . I'm gonna estimate at max cr when the 15 point skill tree cap increase that average will now be somewhere around 3.2mil in 10sec. All because the clamp fall off per point will be massive in episode 48 with the 15 cap lift. I'm already seeing some 3.1mil phasers

My only problem with the stat clamp is that they didn't clamp it enough. Just the other day I along with some leaguemates of mine were talking about the raids we wish we could run the way they were when they were current. Several of us expressed that we were hopeful the clamp would have restored the ability to have those experiences again and were disappointment when that wasn't the case at all.

But to your point, while the flat stats of the augments are indeed clamped, that's like a drop in the bucket of the total effect. I'm not sure how tweaking the augment system would make much of a difference. On Top of that, it sounds like with your system you'd forever lose the augment benefits in all DLC's other than the current. That would only make people even weaker in old content which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what you anti-clampers want.

Aren't you one of the guys who advocates using old OP items in EEG (I'd guess old augs too with that last comment). I'd also guess you are using every cheese advantage available that you'd use in a endgame E+ run. Not that I have a personal issue with this, but it does seem like you are taking every chance to make those runs NOT like they originally were run. If you want to put some challenge back in, remove those augs....stop swapping...or drop an arti or 2. That clamp will feel more clampy right away.

The issue with your 'wish' is that for it to feel like it did back then for someone of your caliber who's really trying, it would be impossible for many other players who are not at the same level. The thing about when 'we first ran it' wishes was that when the content was new, everyone who was running it then was pretty much the same endgame equipment, stats and experience save a few outliers. There IS no going back to that as all this content is now NOT endgame. The clamp can really only go one of 2 ways. Hard enough to challenge someone like you....or easy enough to be played by a fresh level 30, 60, 120...whatever...player. Seeing as one of the goals of putting it in and granting episodes to all players was that ALL content would be playable by everyone...it seems like option 1 isn't really possible....well, not unless they made some 'optional' system part of it.

Which...by the way...is something one side has been asking for for 3 years.

Or, you could just remove some gear, effectively clamping yourself.

Yes although that's typically to either do my part to make things like USr spams or rare drop spams go as quickly and smoothly as possible or to solo bounties. The purpose of the former isn't to experience fun challenging content but rather to be as quick and efficient at obtaining the goal as possible. As for the latter, bounties really SHOULD need groups to beat but n playing the cards I'm dealt, if they're solo-able with a little extra defense in DPS role or quicker with a little extra might in tank role then I'll take it. Though IMO, soloing them with the current clamp does provide a similar degree, though quite different type, of challenge as current elite raid & alert content. Actually when it comes to bounties I'm actually thankful for the clamp as it's provided the only reasonably challenging solo content the game has ever seen, IMO anyway.

You'd guess wrong. Never did the EoG cheese and definitely not the gadgets two SC's cheese. Never did the NVB cooldown reset cheese. I do some light art swapping but the ones I swap actually only do what is specifically intended, namely Scrap (for reduced cooldown and 7% SC back) and DKS (for reduced cooldown on orbital and henchmen, NOT for orbital assistance). I don't swap anything that procs on over time benefit just to swap it out and retain the benefit. The devs said they never intended that and I don't do it.

I fully understand all that and thus why I've said countless times that despite how I and several others I play with would PERSONALLY prefer the game to be, I'm someone who believes in compromise and more than that, believe is making the game as enjoyable for as many people as possible. I've said that while I think the original clamp was a little more on the mark, that ultimately it was and is a middle compromise between those who want the content to feel as it was originally designed and those who want < 5s boss fights and one-shottable adds (and apparently to break as many mechs and feats tied to those mechs as possible). And I'm ok with the compromise.

Someone recently made one of those "My top critiques of the game" posts, a lot of which focused on elite plus. You can look back at my responses to their points and most of them read something like "While I personally would also love to see that, I fear it would make more of the game inaccessible or raise the barrier for entry or gatekeep stuff from others, etc". My statements/opinions almost always come from a "greater good" or "that which benefits the most people" POV. And If I do talk about what I personally would like most, I say it in that context and if it is in contrast to what would be better for the community as a whole I usually either also talk about that perspective OR at least acknowledge that I consider both and where/how they differentiate.

As for your "remove gear/augments" statement. You and I have had that conversation multiple times already. And I always say something to the effect of the following...
It's a game developers' job to calibrate difficulty with consideration to players doing everything they can to be as strong, skilled, resourceful as possible, not including exploits, glitches, etc (though there is often a little gray area there). The onus should never be on players to calibrate their now difficulty by "powering down". Sure there are interesting (to some at least) YouTube Videos out there where someone solos the last boss with nothing but the original stick weapon they started with on level one, but that's not how anybody wants to play any game except the one time they make their "look what I can do!" video. Ultimately we're supposed to try as hard as we can (within reason) to beat content and developers are supposed to design the content to where it hits a sweet spot of challenge and enjoyment when we are putting in said full effort.

Again I'll reiterate that I am in favor of compromise and "best for all" and I think the clamp in its current state is exactly that. But in switching hats and looking at it from a purely personal preference point of view, I would enjoy the game the most if the clamp was calibrated so that when I'm putting in full effort (both in gameplay skills and build/loadout) the content would played like it did when it was current, during which I was putting in full effort as well.

Lastly, I was always in favor of it being optional and advocated for it myself in the early days of this issue. But between the little I know about game programming/coding and more so, from the developers specifically stating so, it's not realistically feasible to make happen. It's a pipe dream at most.

That's not how video games are supposed to work. See my above comment.

Yeah, but other than a single 'for fun' challenge run, pretty much the whole game is to do it 'as efficiently as possible', so building a game wide system to accommodate those few 'challenge' runs someone (including myself by the way) would enjoy. It's just not a reasonable expectation. And yes, I'd agree soloing bounties does provide some of that fun, but it's also not very efficient, which is why I hardly ever do it.

I stand corrected then. Sorry. I'd still call that a 'bit' cheesy, but toMAYto-toMAHto I guess. Either way, I take your point.

While I don't personally enjoy the clamp, I can agree that some do. I don't personally believe it's done anything to improve the game for most people, but I don't have the actual numbers...and it IS still here 3 years later, so I'll take that as evidence I'm in the minority at this point.

Not sure I read that one, but I'm against E+, especially where SP feats are concerned. It DOES make many of those feats and the content itself inaccessible to much of the community, and I think that's bad for the game.

Yes, but I don't believe it's possible for them to actually balance it. Yes, fixing exploits and glitches would help, but they seem unwilling to do that and have stated as much on things like heavy art swapping. This is where for people that really want a challenge, the 'remove gear' may be the only option. How could they make a run that would challenge 8 copies of you (max players with max equipment and a high skill level) but still be beatable by even 'good' average players with middle level gear/equipment? I don't personally believe it can be done and is foolish to waste the resources trying. And even IF they found a way to do it, most people would immediately try and find the way to make it easier and quicker. It's what we do.

I think the 'optional' was possible, basically having 2 'on-duty' menus, one clamped (but at it's original level or harder) for those that wanted the experience, and one either unclamped, or at a lower level...maybe even lower than it is today (game breaking issues aside). I think the reason that was never pursued goes back to your original sentence here...that people would go with the more 'efficient' way and would just abandon the harder clamp after those few challenge runs. At this point though, we'll never know, as we are far too dwindled down now to even try it.

I just ran monsters of metal and hated every second of it. My character is stronger then ever has multiple 200 arts and over 800 sp but the fight took hella long and there was no difference from clamp to none since I still had to carry the group. Which it took almost 40 minutes and I had to do everything mechanics because the weak dps would do anything but pew pew with sub par damage. This was more of a punishment and I probably won't run pug for the rest of today's batman day because I also feel this has been true for most of this event. I hate batman content now more then ever and they didn’t leave us enough of what we worked for and flate out paid for.

I would personally disagree but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one and you're in the majority. One of my biggest criticisms of the community is being overly focused on minimizing time spent. Grindy stuff? sure, of course. But the meat of the gameplay? no, not me anyways.

I mean tac (tactical) swapping has always been intended and by intended I don't just mean allowed but rather a specific feature the devs have always specifically wanted us to have. I still remember when I was brand new to the game and didn't know a d*** thing the first reason I ever wanted to get a bunch of SP was so that I could use ALL the combos with ALL the weapons ANY time I wanted. lol. Obviously it was quickly discovered how foolish and inept that would be but that IS something the devs wanted us to be able to do which would require switching weapons in ones inventory. I believe we should only get the benefit of three artifacts at any given specific time BUT those three could be any three at any time, even 5 seconds a part. You got it while it's in, you don't when it's out. That's pretty in line with the kind of tac swapping the devs specifically designed the game to feature IMO. But of course Toe-May-toe, Toe-Mahhh-toe

No, I'm pretty sure you are in the majority. HOWEVER, many anti-clampers seem to think it's like a 99:1 majority and that almost nobody likes/wants it and that DEFINITELY isn't the case. It's probably closer to 60:40.

As for "improving" the game, it was stated at the time and repeated at least once or twice that one of the biggest reasons it was done was to head off future impending problems, avert disaster, etc. This is something people almost never take in to consideration. There had been a quickly growing number of bug reports about old content mechanics and specifically feats being undoable because the mechanics were breaking, overlapping, getting skipped, etc. One can only assume that would have gotten worse and worse. Of course, nobody is ever appreciative when something bad never comes in to existence, no matter how close it came to be or how bad it might have been.

Hell, even WITH the clamp it's tough to do the Darkness Rising Etrigan feat where you have to dispel the mirror images three times by putting enough burn on him during that phase. It's a burn check feat which means lots of burn during the phase BUT has to be done three times before he dies. To do it now you have to put almost EXACTLY the right amount of burn to trigger the dispelling and then ONLY the right amount of "tickle" burn after to push him to the next mirror image phase. Too much burn in either phase and he dies before you can do it a 3rd time. That was NEVER how the feat was, even when it was 3-4 DLC's old. It was always about finding the right one in time and putting enough ST burn on him. Hell, you could even fail 1-2 phases and still do it. Him dying before even having a chance to get a 3rd phase was never an issue. Now it is, BIG TIME. Think about how near impossible that would be without the clamp...

Despite the ease in arguing that the harder the feat, the more it should be worth, I would be against them stacking it full of 50pt feats or all kinds of cool rare drops for those reasons. But a tiny little few extra sp isn't making a difference to anybody except those looking for the next carrot and stick which is all they are. And one rare TRADABLE drop should be acceptable. It's only one thing and even when players who aren't in to running plus (for whatever reason) want it they can buy it off the broker. Yeah, probably for half a $B but still, it's obtainable. But for that reason I don't think there should be a ton of stuff. Half a $B is somewhat reasonable. $3B for 6 things that are all matching in theme would be unfair to people whose characters match that theme or whatever. Like I said....compromise.
For more of my thoughts on this, look up my 20 page debate with Raven Nocturnal LMAO.

Difficulty levels... which for the most part are well achieved in end game (non-clamped) content. Even though I PERSONALLY liked the old elite difficulty (8-9/10) best, the current three difficulties (3/10, 6/10, 10/10) serves more players than two difficulties so I'm in favor of it. That's how most games do it, right? Easy, Medium, Hard, EXTREME. And I can't imagine someone who plays through a game on Hard and enjoys that level also simultaneously thinking "it's not fair that I can't do extreme!!!!" Pick the one that is the most fun & rewarding and do that. There's no point in worrying what others are enjoying.

You're talking creating another copy of every instance in the game save for three DLC's. That's TWO copies of every instance. Sure it's not making a whole 238 instances from scratch (more as that's only one faction). There'd be lots of C&P, shared resources, etc. But still, that's A LOT of work. Probably more than a years worth of work for a dev team larger than DCUO's has been in a while. On top of that, when resources are shared, they're stored separately (usually on a separate server) as a single file but with multiple files, programs, etc having open file paths to access it. Of course that's what is already happening but if you go and DOUBLE the amount of code strains accessing the same resource, that creates ALL kinds of havoc. I'm sure someone who really knows their stuff could "well actually" the hell out of the specifics of that statement but I'm pretty sure the gist is fairly accurate.

The 1st boss can be pretty confusing, convoluted, etc. But Ivy? She just needs the defense debuff from the spore form and she melts, even with subpar burn. Last Boss? Just carry the metal. No burn even necessary. The clamp wouldn't change that at all. Come to think of it, it wound't change the Ice Giants knocking down the walls and freeing Freeze either. Hell, without clamp the "pew pew"ers would probably kill the Ice Giants before they even start their 1st charge which the sun blade would do clamped or unclamped. TBH, the only thing the clamp would noticeably change in that entire raid is burning Ivy WITHOUT the spore form defense debuff and...just....why????

Don't get me wrong, it's a NIGHTMARE to pug...for a bunch of reasons. But none of them have anything to do with lower stats.

As this is getting a bit long winded, I'm just going to address a few points. Not that the others weren't worth addressing, but it's getting to be a bit much for our dear readers....

I guess this is partially why I so strongly disagreed with the 'need' for the clamp when it was first announced. See, I've gotten MOST of those older feats way past level, multiple times over because of the multiple accounts. I almost never ran into an issue that would bug out save ones that bug out regardless of burn, like the lightbringer feat (still bugged BTW) in AOD. The whole 'fact' that some runs were ALWAYS bugged out, like Arkham Scarecrow fight were just not true. Yes, you probably had to find out about it 1 time by breaking it, but assuming you weren't being foisted in a group with some jerk who can't pull back even a little (still happens BTW) it was 100% completable, as was any feats where 'too much burn' would biff things. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate that never ending scaling up each DLC (a problem the Devs created BTW with exponential stat raises), more things would break eventually, but I'd guess any of those could also still be controlled.

BTW. I was able to get the Etrigan feat several times pre clamp...and it's 5 mirror images, not 3. It was just another thing that you just needed to know what you are doing, use ST, and stop burning as soon as he's dispelled.

I agree that harder feats should be worth the most (you know...like spending 80 marks on a T1 gear style), there are some E+ feats that are not as much 'skill' related as they are repeat runs. Even the coveted high end drops you refer too don't really rely on skill (as you say), but you'll need 10's 100's or 1000's of runs to get the RNG drop. So rather than 'skill' it's a matter of if you have a deep friends list (or know a hacker or 2) and are around when the run is new enough to be run dozens of times a week. Sorry....that's not the kind of 'challenge' E+ feats should bring IMHO.

Well, we HAD 1 of the sets already. The 2nd set was created and was implemented...so while you are right on ongoing system resources, a 2 'on-duty' set shouldn't have taken a lot more than what it took to implement the clamp. EVERY instance was already re-worked/created for the clamp.

I get that they didn't do it....probably for some of the reasons you mention. Just saying...I think it would have given BOTH sides more of what they wanted. Omni? Not so much, but that is a different beast altogether.

I think the only time I personally witnessed a feat repeatedly bugging out seemingly due to excessive burn/health was in League Hall Lockdown. But I've always kept an eye out on the bug forum (even if only to dream of a day the Aggressive Protection Affinity Mod gets fixed) and I DEFINITELY remember a noticeable rise in bug reports regarding feats not working in very old content. I'm sure many of those were still doable but required much more precise execution like the Etrigan feat. But they shouldn't be that way. Sure, like the Etrigan feat, feats will most likely pop when someone like you or me is guiding the group but a group of relatively decent, knowledgable players should be able to figure out how to do the feat without having to also figure out or be taught the workarounds to the additional issues created by years of power creep. I can EASILY see a group of skilled, knowledgable players who just haven't happened to have experience getting that feat swearing on their mothers graves that he only does 3-4 mirror phases before dying. And like I said, that was never the challenge of the feat until it got severely out-leveled.

Agreed but those are the exceptions, not the rule. As for the rare drops, I brought those up not for the feat but rather to say ONE rare E+ drop per DLC should be an acceptable compromise to the "No Gatekeeping! vs Give us an E+ carrot on a stick" conflict. There shouldn't be a ton of stuff locked behind E+ difficulty but surely the "no Gatekeeping!" crowd can compromise and be ok with ONE thing. Though as far as the feat aspect, one could argue hustling for half a Bil to buy it off the broker does take some skill/finesse/knowhow/je ne said quoi.

I guess I was thinking going from no clamp to clamped was more like editing/changing/updating the content that was there vs. creating a second set. But admittedly I don't know which of those very rudimentary descriptions is more accurate to the process that was used. And it's possible the difference between the two isn't all that big. But most certainly storing/hosting two versions simultaneously on their servers would require some major server hardware upgrades/expansion/etc.

And yeah, though roughly still on topic, we've authored more than enough novellas here. I'm good with calling it a day.

Just wanted to reply on this one thing. Although I'm not down with the E+ feats...or feats beyond something, as you say, you could hustle in other ways (like getting .5B to buy one)...I don't really consider it a complaint against 'gatekeeping'. E+, in my opinion, should be above and beyond character growth, kind of like SM is. Not because many won't be able to complete it....but because many in our community won't even let them try. Sure, there is the occasional group who has 7 known quantities and just needs 'someone' to fill the group out, but most times there is a list of requirements to gain entry. Certain builds or playstyles, art swapping, certain Allies. It's no longer a matter of what is your CR/SP and do you know the mechs....which should be all that is required. THAT is the gatekeeping-y part....which is squarely on us as a community, not on the game itself.

Ah well....Yeah, I'll dip out too. Got to hustle up 20 more batman marks and only have 2 days to do it...so better get moving.

1) How video games are supposed to work: You start off weak and get stronger.... It's called progress.

The [DELETED] is not how video games are supposed to work.


2) "Supposed to work" has nothing to do with stopping you from taking off your armor/using old armor in old content to make it feel like it did back then...


Just do it... and leave the rest of us to play how we would like to.



Personally, I like going into older content after progressing in strength... THAT IS HOW VIDEO GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK.

Repetitive and beating a dead horse are 2 seperate concepts....

1) We're trying to prevent the horse (game) from dying....

2) It might be pointless (actually beating a dead horse),,, but, that is only because of those in power refusing to listen... the horse is willfully dead.


Ever see a hospital show where the doctor refuses to stop beating on a chest of a patient that has been called?

That's us.


Sometimes... They get a pulse.