5-1-1-1 = bad dps.

By doing that more powers like electric and fire would have to have another major am revamp. Both have the potential for high damage out put but to do is requires the user to not use or ignore most of the am for the power so even with 2 trolls can still burn through power.

As far as healer resto going, as has been said over and over fire and earth need good healers to be successful. Fire has no mitigation just high health and ability to heal some damage. Earth has some mitigation with the pet version being weaker than the pure aftershock version but far easier. So the more adds that come out the harder bosses hit the more damage both tank powers take, and the weaker the heals the more the tank is forced to just hold block. possibly losing aggro or having the aftershocks run out.

if you make a group with two healers then your tank will be fine. you don't need a revamp

This is fairly simple. You play your way ill play mines. If you want to spend 20 extra minutes in a instance fine. However don't complain about more dps being in a instance because you think its unfair. With that being said there is physically no reason to ever at all run multiple trollers or healers. Reasons for that is mostly power back mechanics makes it so the troller is really only giving power to the tank(s) or healer, Unless the healer itself has one as well (Nature). Healer wise there is just nothing that only one healer can't handle, as long as the healer themselves know what there doing.

So what makes you think I would choose as well as others to play at a slower rate then I want to? I will stick to my 13 min NGN's and 16 min HH's (N) or (E). Whilst you continue your slow to die boss fights. Since that seems like what you are asking for. To get through content worse.

I was referring to electric and fire dps

that is the core issue with our community. ME MYSELF AND I GUYS LIKE THE KNOW NOTHING WHO WROTE THIS. you are flat our screwing half the powers. actually if your not a nature healer currently your screwed. who cares self serving HORRIBLE team guys like you save 2 minutes of your day.

AM is there so troll ARE NOT batteries. they revamp the powers to help the game and troll roll but then some ****** like you comes along and sucks so you hide in cheap groups and again screw up the game.

tanks. I CAN TELL YOU ALL THIS WHERE IS THE TANK ?S STEEMS FROM THIS. you are problably not smart enough to understand but fires machanic (as rage is rage crash) is the additional heals we get from our healers. cutting us down to one healer is sending us to do our job at half strength.

so if your not nature your in a bad way healing. fire and earth have it hard and the troll killing batterie days are creeping back in.


IF YOU HAVE ANY GAME INFO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AFTER X AMOUNT THE DAMAGE SPLITTING NEGATES THE 5TH DPS. there is a video 6-1-1 and no troll. the top dps did 10 million. bottom dps did 1 million. SUPPORT ROLE DID 750K LOSEING TO THE WORST DPS BY A QUARTER MILLION ONLY.

you intelligant me myself and i guys might not understand because you know thinkg about anything not in your mirror seems far fetched, but the last dps in that video slowed down the group. he easily could of been debuffing and the defence debuff would cover more damage than his dpsing. atop of this the group coulda bennefitted from the troll role.

the worst part is your letting yourself get behind on the rehashed machanics and soon you carried will be right here CRYING AGAIN ABOUT ITS HARD AND ANOTHER RAID LIKE NEXUS MIGHT GET CUT DOWN TO PATHETIC.

SAVE THE I AM GOOD SPEECH BECAUSE A REAL PLAYER TAKES THE WORST POSSIBLE GROUP BUILD AND CRUSHES IT. YOU SISSIES ARE HIDING BEHIND THE CHEESIEST CHEAPEST SETUP IN THE GAME.

most guys like big dru with your feelings generally are the two bit scrubs 4,5 or 8th on the board. hopefully you guys reset the raids for those carrying you through.

fyi i am not insulting or being harsh. the adjustments to compensate for crap like this is things like AM. what really offended me with this guys post is how dumb he refered to the troll. all he has to do is give a tank and healer power. WOW get a clue we CC and are group savers. PLUS THE TROLLS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN 2ND ON THE SCORE BOARD AND ONCE UPON A TIME A 100 SKILL POINTED TROLL COULD LEAD THE BOARDS. RECHARGE DID NOT PUT HIM THEREE

what does that have to do with support role stats? and your second paragraph had mentioned tanks...

I agree with you man, why I primarily troll but refuse to use straight vitalization mods. I am not strictly a battery that is one of many of my jobs but not my only.
I can say most times I'm in a group that stacks dps I either beat or am right behind the 4th and 5th dps.

The way the community is set up now. I think if players see anything requiring more than 1 troller and 1 healer, the content needs a nerf, unless its survival mode. And that is sad.

Right now the community has this whole big idea in there head about support roles and that is if you cant solo it, your gonna get kicked.

then the devs need to pull back on vit and amount of power given back from AMs. the power back mechanic doesn't even make sense. trolls were meant to give power and if people don't like it they can play the other 3 roles

Pretty much this whole thing.

Roles are roles though.
DPS do damage
Healers heal and aid in pick ups (really devs.. mind numbingly high resto?)
Controllers have been forced into battery mode.
and Tanks forced to be meat bags even though they have cleanses and breakouts..

But it's ok. We're just a whole bunch of whiners who want stuff to change right?
We're the issue of the game. (Please note im not coming at you Derio)

So... the "p l a y "y o u r" w a y" notion doesn't exist and the people who say this force others of a different mindset to play their way.
the find a group bull crap will be brought up and they don't realize you will never find a group of that mindset due to being shot down on multiple ends.
So if they say that they need to take a good hard look in the mirror. Then learn to stop grinding that axe.
And it's on both sides of the coin. I dont care who it is. Just stop please.

This whole thing has been completely fruitless.

plenty of us should know better and should be voicing our opinions. i can tell you i am having an insanely hard time geetting my wallet to resub with this bismal challange.

the last boss of HH seems like they were uping the anty a bit. its like the LnW last boss but no option to fight them seperately. i only did one HH run and 10 or so of LnW so sorry if the example is not applicable but a quick look and that is what i get. resto should be scaled down some what going forward and the one healer hopefully goes away. i watched the FNL last week and the raid did the HH with a 5-1-1-1 setup and the devs are well aware.

when the leader has 10xs the damage out as the bottom dps and the support role happens to be within a million of the last dps i get from the numbers that someone is not helping the group

simply put some people suck at their roles and if a instatn takes 5 mins longer to complete because you went with a backup healer also who cares if it creates a smoother run with less pickups

Lol, I did today 2x NGN with 5-1-1-1 formation, seems soccer ^^, 18 min first and 19 min the second. Now HH elite will be the next

I personally like two healers. However, now healers are used to spamming and can't change their mindset.

I play all the roles.

My Celestial healer has no difficulty to keep everyone alive. I don't really see the need for a second healer, unless the controller is doing a very terrible job with giving power. Usually, when a character dies while I am the healer, it's because he was one-shotted or because he moved out of my healing radius. Two healers are useful and make the run much smoother, but only if the healers are not experts. An expert healer, thanks to the huge Restoration stat, hardly feels the need for a colleague in the team.

My Quantum and Munitions controllers might have some problems with giving power when teamed up with spamming healers and tanks or power hungry DpS. Thanks to the AM the need for power is greatly reduced, but there are still exceptions. I am seeing less and less support characters using WM to reduce the cost of their powers... what's up with that?
BTW, a backup controller is necessary only when the team is made by newbies or by people using powers without a power return AM.

My Ice tank is more than enough for anything and, beside ToTD, I can't think of any other session that requires more than one tank.

I think that the 5-1-1-1 team composition is due to the fact that DpS make ludicrous amounts of damage. Halve the damage they make and you will see the request (and the availability) for support roles increasing.

IMO, the perfect team composition in a raid, at the current state of the game, is 4 dps - 1 tank - 2 controllers - 1 healer.

cool story bro. the issue is the score board. when someone is getting out damaged by 2xs, or as i see plenty up to 10xs the amount HE IS PROVIDING THE GROUP ZERO HELP. ZERO.

way to many times the last dps or two are so far behind. hell sometimes the last place dps slows you down. big dru is a forum poster who was in this thread. he has a 5-1-1-1 group beating the new content. heck think he ran 6-1-1. no troll. thing is the leader has 10mill while dru has 1 million. that is literally 10xs the damage. he got slaughtered and he is mental at that.

elite alerts and elite content is here. hopefully the elite is closer to throne instead of hh going forward. WHEN we get our next nexus or throne what about the scrubby dps who you guys are carrying? THEY WILL STILL SUCK and like we saw in nexus bad horrible players got the nerf of doom dropped on the content. NEVER AGAIN

why are people not running two trolls so trolls can again learn to add damage to the mix. the batterry era which 5-1-1-1 is recreating taught trolls to be awful trolls.

personally our dps are insanely good. 4 dps and id bet 20 min is very doable. IF YOUR DPS ARE DPS. even bringing a second healer (which is harder to justify due to astronomical resto) would help in the long haul. healers and trolls should be given this time to experiment and get more familar with their powers and roles.

lastly b4 you even think about the burn is faster i need to point out one thing. bigdru in the referenced video had 1 mill the leader had ten mill BUT THE KICKER WAS THE SUPPORT ROLE IS 250K BEHIND THE LAST DPS. OR THE BOTTOM DPS PUT UP SUPPORT DAMAGE NUMBERS WITHOUT ANY OF THE BENEFITS

if you support that............ if you suck at dps learn something else because challange will come AND YOU CARRIED DPS ARE GOING TO BE SLAUGHTERED. I WILL CALL YOU OUT WHEN THE NERF CALLS COME. man up hope off others backs and learn to be a contributer

Guys, in all honesty, I find that the battery era ENDED when the AM was introduced. Now I have enough power available to use my CC effects and I am way less worried about giving power than how I used to be before. Most of my power dump goes to the healer and the tank now. I don't know where you get your ideas.

Regarding the "adding damage to the mix", I am quite disgruntled about it... When you have 5 DpS doing 7-10 mil damage, I feel like my 750k damage is not doing much to "add to the mix". Since the AM I redistributed the SPs of my support role characters on role-specialized statistics, leaving alone the Might/Precision buff. I let the DpS think about damage. A support role damage will return to be significant only if the devs would halve the damage dealt by the DpS.

Bad controllers are the consequence of the lack of expert controller teaching them how to do their job. More over, since everyone wants a solo-controller, a newbie has practically no way to learn the trade by watching an expert while riding along as a backup controller. I know I learned a lot by reading the forum, but also by being teamed up with great controllers and learning from them.

Yup. This is how 99% of our league runs go. We have 5 DPS that know what they're doing and exceptional off roles to compensate for lack of another. It has absolutely nothing to do with bad DPS, but instead just a quicker run.

easy with 2 quantums I bet it is