You seem to be under the assumption trolls only give power. My troll at 117 cr with only troll gear has about 2825 prec, I often pop flex 7 so 3700 prec and with trinket 5500+ prec which hits hard. Then I debuff enemies defense by 33% which essentially boosts everyone's dmg. With 3500+Dom I can stun pretty much anything including adds that try ignorimy tanks. Them locked in place boosts damage since it'll stay in the air. Some troll powers can apply almost every pi again increasing damage. While this all can be done solo trolling it's much harder to keep powers full and doing those
You're wasting your time and your life > Bottom Line is unless the Developers invest time to implement a Mechanic that requires more Support Role, DPS is always supreme. Throne of the Dead is perhaps the greatest example of such a Mechanic. Having a necessary enemy being ONLY killable by a Tank forces that role to be used. In future Content, Development needs to implement a mechanic that requires an attack or defense debuff.... or perhaps the enemy can ONLY be damaged by Weapon Attacks. There are sooooo many things that can be done, but until it is... Burn Baby Burn! This is perhaps the best example of what a Joke this DLC is. A T7 Raid is being destroyed in 10 minutes. Just simply > LAUGHABLE! As always > Stay Competent my friends!
EVERYONE WAY OVER FULL 99 GEAR CHECK/ rage tank check. bug heals check. OP power at the moment check. HL dps and by this time i was going for advil so i missed the other 2 dps. TANK in the video i respect despite being rage he went 1 on 1 and did his job. i tanked it once. i am not adjusted exactly when its coming but this fire tanks going to be beating the boss down as he did. a 2nd look should be good. again bud good job. you got out damaged by 10xs so you are the awful dps i am calling out. are you buying these guys resets to let you ride along. you cant say its the power so. also hard light has taken a hit based off the forum rumblings and the HL beat you. dude P.O.T. needs to always stay up and recharge is a must. learn some stuns and to double tick and help your group. wanna know what else is faster burn? defense debuff. you might not of covered the damage of a defense debuff lol. can you at the very least admit your just not a good dps? hey i did. i love dpsing but id get killed on the boards also. you should take this time to be perfecting your power although it seems next month youll be (insert current FOTM). the %10 burn you privided was of no value in my opinion and those top 4 or 5 gifted the rest the run. thats the evidence of your video.
Listen to yourself say the word. Support. Your the sidekick, not the hero. Who wants to make a character just to be the help? And in far too many instances get treated that way...
Please can we stop making these threads. Im a healer and get frustrated at it, but you know what? There's a peace in quitting. Aint you tired of singing the same old song? DPS will always be the most valued role. It's plain and simple. This game thrives on it and roles only are a hinderan to them after a certain point. Support is to lay down and take it after they get overgeared. It's the truth. And yes.. armories are useful for the hybrid builds and the dps builds Healers will be forced to solo heal. If you cannot solo heal from the get in the new content, you will be considered terrible, no matter how well you do initially or if you've been on hiatus. Tanks are now the more important ones which is pretty neat for them. It's not often this happens. Controllers will always be batteries. I dont care if you can do dps-esque burn, put out power, pick up and crowd control. You are a battery first and foremost.
what happens to all the bad players once this is no longer an option? if resto is better scaled like say t4 as opposed to how it was in t5 and t6 then suddenly two trolls are needed. the bad dps cant cut it and the nerf threads start. why not sit back add 3 big minutes and allow the support roles a chance to learn how to do a nice mix of damage and their roles. this would help the community. 5-1-1-1 is simply horrible. the one dps was out damaged by 10xs his damage out. that might not even cover a debuff and he for sure coulda been stunning ads. helping
i said in MOST cases not ALL 1 troll is al thats needed.there are some runs you need a 2nd troll but in most you don't and i have trolled a lot myself and with 4-5k vit you can pretty much just pot and debuff when needed,most dps use am now days so they don't need power ,healers have insane amounts of restoration so they don't use as much power as they used to and depending on what kind of tank you have they don't use much power so you can easily keep them powered and do debuffs.
I'm primarily a troller. I have a DPS set mainly for duos and solos. Lately, with 5500 vit controllers becoming more common, I am typically asked to go DPS. I have not done much studying beyond Youtube videos on Mental AM. Out of 4-5 DPS, I am typically the 2nd from the bottom. Factors to contribute to low DPS are pickups. At times I would pop Mass Hysteria supercharge, backup, and supply drops... then someone dies next to me. As a controller, I am used to picking players up. So during this, I am at a loss. I lose my boost from the supply drop and half the duration of my supercharge boost. To your formula (O P), am I the bad DPS?
You're missing the point that even as a troll I have high damage output. I still have about 5600 vit. So while I can solo troll, it's not needed the extra burn is there. I can list many other trolls that started pushing themselves to see how much damage they can do while keeping a group powered debuffs going etc. Best part is with 2 trolls don't need to worry if 1 goes down. Never a question of which dps is going to stop to go for a pick up, more stuns shields and debuffs applied. Most importantly don't need to worry about armory glitches, say the troll dies. I've been dpsing troll got knocked off the platform I popped my armory to go troll, changes costume, sp allocation, apperance of powers on tray. But I go to toss pot and time bomb is what my character does instead. When that happens = wipe.
i am that bad dps also. i saw a guy boosting about the group. they ran 6dps -1 healer - tank. the top dps put out ten mill while the last dps put out 1 mill. 1 mill vs ten? why is he not helping with the stuns and learning to put out damage as a troll. the support role on the same raid had 700k so really what good is that dps? as a fire tank i say forget it. give me a second healer because my power is designed to be healed superly. my self heals are small its the healing i recieve. yea one healer is doable but with two i am a beast. why am a working harder to carry to people who will cry nerf once the free rides over?
A lot of good arguments for and against in here, but in the end it boils down to people are impatient. They want that shiny now so they can move on and get more shiny. A lot are saying support roles are obsolete, but why then are all servers constantly calling for that one last support role at 7/8 over and over? There's no one to answer the call because the community, not the game, has pushed the support roles away.
I agree, I also know it can be said to each their own but if people prefer to have enough dps to essentially make the mechanics of the fight not even a part of the fight then it becomes one step closer to bosses being training dummies which would be incredibly boring. Sometimes 5-1-1-1 is good when actually needed but 5-1-1-1 I will always feel is bad when preferred for the sake of bypassing certain boss mechanics. People needs to learn the mechanics, obtain some skill (I'm not saying people are unskilled) and enjoy what the developers are adding rather than try to burn through each fight as fast as possible. I remember when Prime was the new best raid, it was a struggle at first to survive it but it was endlessly fun. Back then even when the raid was learned and the static group was good at it, it was still a matter of dealing with all of the mechanics of the raid because at that time even one mistake could potentially lead to a complete wipe. I'm going to respond to other posts without quoting, too many to bother wit quoting lol. In theory 5-1-1-1 can be optimal but this entirely depends on how good the 5 dps are and if the controller and healer can handle their role solo. I have seen lately in an 8man t5 op a cr101 I think it was dps doing less damage than the tank contrller and 1 of the healers, this dps was almost dead last. I don't care for pugs but I recently came back to the game a couple of weeks ago so for now I'm pugging more than I would like to but I have noticed that there will often be 1 dps doing 2-3 times more damage than the 2nd place dps. There are some good dps and some bad ones but one thing to think about is that some of these dps do not play support roles, some do not know how or are not good at support roles so when something goes wrong in a raid sometimes the group can be faced with people leaving or wasting time on an attempt that won't work with the current group. I've had some bad luck lately on my healer in alerts also with being queued in alerts and ops with 3 healers and 1 tank or troll and 0 dps then 2 healers switch to dps role and end up not putting out enough damage to complete the instance. Far as controller goes, anyone that puts forth effort and learned the role correctly can keep the group fully powered, dps, debuff and whatever they feel like doing without having issues with power. If the controller knows their role and pays attention then right before the pot ticks expire the controller can drop pot again and gets 2 pot ticks for the cost of 1. That may not be much but any bit adds up especially when solo trolling. Some weapons are good for building supercharge faster, super speed movement mode has speed drain which is useful for restoring the group's power if the controller is low on power. Now with healing, solo healing is really easy and if anyone struggles with it then they need to practice. I don't want that to sound elitist but it really is true. Healers have situational heals and those need to be used correctly to maximize healing output with as little power being used as possible. If several people are below 80% HP then use a healing skill that grows in strength the more people it heals. If people are gradually losing HP and you need to heal several at a time for more than 20-30% HP then healers have a skill for that too. I'm not naming skills because they work differently for each healer class but all are plenty effective. You also have skills for healing 3 people and skills for healing yourself and the most injured. There are plenty of other healing skills that boils down to preference but in the end it's all situational and any healer should be able to effectively handle it unless the controller is not feeding power like they should. DPS should know power interactions and optimize their damage output. Some do this well and some don't. It's always best to have a static group but that's not always an option. This 5-1-1-1 can be talked about endlessly but it doesn't really matter because pugs currently prefer it and when pugging you are at the mercy of what's the current preferred thing. I don't think any of us wants instances that take forever to finish all the time but it would be nice to have a good balance. I remember the old days of Fos2, sometimes it could be a 30-40 minute run and sometimes a 3 hour run. Those 3 hour runs made the raid not that enjoyable lol but most runs like that probably were pugs. I had tried a couple of Fos2 pugs back then and ever since I ran static or league runs there. The 5-1-1-1 is nothing new though, it's not a passing phase but it also won't always be preferred. 5-1-1-1 likely will remain situational. When a raid can be done with 5-1-1-1 without major trouble and wipes then it likely will be used. I main a healer, main alts are troller and tank then some dps. If there were 2-2-2-2 in every raid, most of the time 1 tank would be almost useless. Sometimes 2 healers just get in each other's way when 2 are not needed often. The only support role that I feel benefits from having 2 would be controller and that's situational. Sometimes you'll get a controller with lower VIT overriding the lead troll's pot. Sometimes there's only short times when 2 would be needed and this is why I use SS movement mode for Speed Drain because that is what I can use if I ever need to give everyone lots of power back and fast. Charging supercharge is easy with certain weapons so it should always be available. Anyways though, at the end of the day we all should play this game the way we want to. Play it the way you enjoy playing it because many of us pay a monthly sub and some buy the dlcs/episodes so really just enjoy the game your way. In pugs it's always going to be this or that, that's just part of pugging. Pugging never was intended for difficult, complex and challenging content where every role plays a larger role.
What I don't understand is why the need to use 2 healers instead of 1. I understand 2 trolls, 2 tanks but 2 healers I will never understand.
i hate 5-1-1-1 because well people should put in work not be carried. the two healer point with where there resto is makes solo healing ok UNLESS YOU HAVE A FIRE AND POSSIBLY EARTH TANKS. as a fire tank i am way stronger with 2 healers. my point of this is we can learn who is the dps and who is the support roles and do what we are good at.better the community because this feels like a JV test by the devs. the last two DLCs have had interesting boss and room machanics. the devs make adjustments to protect the integrity of the game and simply cutting resto will put groups closer to a balanced group all the bad dps are still going to be bad somethings. the support roles that were dpsing will be rusty. doing something daily makes it more second nature and improves you. so the support roles are not at full speed and for what? to carry ralentless hacks through new content. nah that is not how i want to invest this time. i want my trolls and heals learning and practicing their damage while doing their jobs. this allows us to become better players.
the best solution to the 5111 problem is to reduce the restoration and vit from trolls and start putting more ads in content that need to be CCd. groups will need more heals and and trolls and we will go back to 3221 or 2222..
There is no solution to the 5111 "problem" because.... it is not a problem, player insistence is though. Skilled player can do 5111 for almost all content because they are, well, skilled. There are some here on the forums I don't respect, like nor accept how they present their arguments BUT they are skilled and can carry off the 5111. Fact. Many here who go on about 5111 are running in the latest DLCs as they arrive, thus always part of the top 5% or even 3 or 2% of the player base. Of course they can go 5111 and not have problems. The average player is nowhere near this skill level, don't have the deep knowledge of the game, the instances, their powers and probably don't give a monkeys about it either, they are just having fun. For these players 5111 is be a big mistake but the 3% are shouting "EVERYONE SHOULD BE DOING 5111" forgetting the sheer degree of skill difference across the player base. Look at DLC releases. When they come out they are a challenge for the leading 3% of the player base but even so they soon beat it and then soon after it becomes almost rote. The Devs then scale back the difficulty which makes it achievable for I don't know, maybe 10% of players. As the DLC starts to age and falls behind the leading edge the Devs then again rebalance it so it is achievable for average players. A really good example is the two OC anomalies. Anyone who had difficulties with them on release go try them now, even if no marks are being awarded and see how easy they've become. For a player who finds the current OC anomalies a challenge, that person needs 4211 or maybe 3221 but definitely not 5111.