B4 anyone gets mad i am the guy i am talking about. being fair this applies to alot of dps in dcuo. the "faster burn" crap going around hurts my head. in 3 years i have not found a speed feat any group of 4 or 8 could not only get but smash b4 we were outta tier. wth is fast enough? this is the basic point. PLENTY OF DPS LIKE MYSELF ARE NOT DPS. AF2 i could and did top dps boards but did not have the burn for throne and elite........ yea sure. in the old days i dpsed and was decent but i often ended fights outside the door. good numbers and all but i put time in and had experience. in t6 i had just tried a power i never dpsed with and did ok. my suggestion to the community is take time working on your role. trolls use to be 2nd place on the dps board but the battery days changed that. about the battery days. solo trolling vs 2 trolls. which is significantly closer to battery trolling? i am in no ways supporting hybrids in end game new content but with elite alerts coming we need as many trolls and healers at peek shape day one. take the second troll and if the dps are well GOOD take two healers and let them put in work. i can dps but come crunch time me like plenty of other dps dont measure up. i have been able to except this and as a result i became a pretty decent player. i am with the parser and info from fellow players getting dpsing down with all the two tank boss fights so by the end of t7. this is how i improve and what betters me. for you it might be something different. the game seems to be stepping up a little and sooner than later it will be next gen and pc only. this is when we should be learning our strengths and perfecting our craft. i tried healing trolling and tanking. tanking was natural and turned me from a ok dps to really decent tank. dpsing could then be crafted and then used when i am good. i hope players will read this and try their alt role.
I've played all roles, I have all roles, if you click on the powers in my sig you will see I have taken my characters far. Only toon that is still lacking gear is my ice tank, which I plan to go rage on him as I actually enjoyed the time I was rage tank on my main. hell atm my main isnt even the highest cr out of my toons anymore my 2nd main is now. The "Undecided" is my main (the 1 I've had for 3 going on 4 yrs now) with the cr117 being my 2nd toon ever made.
but I agree if people spent more time learning other roles they can comprehend how the roles work and know why say barda drops aggro in breach ect.
and I agree the DPS stacking imo shows a sign of bad DPS on someone's part so they need more to make up for it.
Yup, most of the time you're just giving a couple of poor damagers a free ride, and adding stress, rather than ensuring a smoother (or even quicker) run.
I love Controlling. I have two PVE builds, both are Controller builds. I am terrible DPS. I have never been able to really get clipping down for Gadgets AM. I know this about me, but I am a pretty decent controller. So if you see me in an actual DPS role it's because I am teaching someone the ins and out of controlling in an Alert , or we are in a Raid and there was already one experienced controller in the group, and I am in another chat channel talking the other Controller through the fights. I think the main reason people don't like to play support roles is because in LFG people can get pretty rude to support role players. It seems like it's never the DPS's fault for standing in the fire / AoE, but the healer's fault for not healing through the damage they were taking. It's never their fault for not using their AM, and now being out of power, it's the Controller's fault for not giving them power. It can be pretty hostile out there for support role players. It doesn't surprise me that we are getting rarer and rarer to find. I agree everyone should try their support roles out, if only so they understand what they go through. Who knows they may find out they love it. Then there are more people in support roles and everyone wins.
There's some misinformation here. 5-1-1-1 doesn't exactly = bad dps...What if those 5 people are people who know their power and use it to it's potential ? All of the sudden dps with great burn make things a lot easier..Mechanics completely void..Or the fact that the faster the boss burns the less 1 shots, mistakes, etc you have to worry about. That would actually cause LESS stress on the group. It's not always about burn.
This is such a misinformed thread... DPS stacking is done simply because a DPS is always useful. Now, before you go and jump down my throat trying to say something about all the terrible DPS out there, think about it... If you can have effective tanking with 2 tanks, why would a third be useful? If you can have effective healing with 1 healer, why would a second be useful? If you can have infinite power with 1 troll, why would a second be useful? Damage on the other hand? More DPS always leads to faster damage. Always. Now.... obviously, you still want to shoot for having QUALITY players in your groups. However, if you have 3 DPS in your group, and you keep those 3 and invite a 4th, the burn will be better - how much better it will be is dependant on what that DPS contributes, but the burn will and always can improve by this way. The same cannot be said for support roles. --------------------------------------- So no, DPS stacking raids is not done because "oh, my burn sucks, lets get more people in here to cover it up". It is done because unlike any support role, burn is an area that can always improve. This thread goes so far to suggest going out of your way to insult others because they set up groups differently than you like. Leave the insults at home, and at least bring constructive arguments, facts, and evidence to bring your point across, not just a blanket insult as a title.
Bad DPS or not. More Burn is more Burn. An thats all the majority community cares about. 5-1-1-1 will never change in this game/community unless Dev's force roles. Until then the community will try to exploit any advantage to burn quicker to excel through content; an stack Damagers regardless of how complex game mechanics develop. DPS Universe Online - The game is nicknamed this for a reason. The Two years of 90% DPS updates enforces this nickname.
let me explain this as a fire tank. i benefit off heals. 2 healers makes me way stronger than one. not all solo healers are good enough to solo heal. that is a given. your cutting my tank machanics in half for more burn? literally making a ruff job even harder. this is smart? this is team work? easier..Mechanics completely void. your words verify exactly why this needs to be ended. how anyone can support this is beyond me.
I like the new DLC...but it is just to easy. got most feats done. 3 months with nothing to do...got to get a better feel for not to hard n not to easy. this is to easy.
While I understand that some people want faster runs, it does seem pointless to want to make game mechanics void as you said. If a group can dps enough so that the game mechanics in the instance no longer matter then that instance will very likely become boring somewhat quickly. I also know that none of us wants to deal with an instance for hours because of lack of dps but there does need to be more balance to it. I prefer solo healing and have for a long time. I feel that I can heal more efficiently solo than with a second healer but maybe not every healer feels that way. Some controllers do well solo trolling while others may struggle to keep power up and then that can become boring when a controller is mostly just feeding power and refreshing thier pot ticks while being able to do little else if people in the group are getting low on power. Most of the time one tank is ideal and best though. The 5-1-1-1 can have its benefits but it can also be argued that some dps simply do not carry their own weight in a group if their damage output is way lower than the other dps. If there are 5 dps and 1 of them is not doing a lot of damage then it could be said that a second controller could do as much damage as the bad dps while also feeding more power to the group allowing people to do more with their attacks and not depend on the AM as much for power. A controller can be especially helpful when there are enough adds around to CC. Everyone probably knows that typically the tank aggros the biggest threat and when we have fights with bosses and adds, probably more often than not, it can be beneficial for a second controller to be able to CC the adds while dpsing and feeding power all at the same time which would make them far more useful than a bad dps but I will also say that not every 5-1-1-1 group has a bad dps in there. I'm just saying that on average there is usually going to be 1 or more dps that will not be doing enough damage to make a quality contributor to the success of the instance. When using the on duty queue people really are at the mercy of whatever they get or they can exit the instance so the 5-1-1-1 in general might sound good. One other thing either the community in this game has forgotten or the devs have not delivered demanding enough content, perhaps a bit of both? A controller is not merely a battery, if that were the game then most controllers would delete their character or change it to dps because doing nothing but feeding power would get boring. Controllers can be infinitely useful in alerts, ops and raids especially when there are a lot of adds. Does anyone remember the old days running the FoS raids where 2 controllers could stand near the bridge and pull adds off while someone is carrying and the rest defending and dealing with the adds? 2 healers were typically spread out, 2 controllers spread out pulling adds. There was another one in the FoS raids where the tank would aggro the boss and nearby adds while controllers would CC incoming adds. I have nothing against 5-1-1-1 but it can limit the potential of support roles but as what was said earlier, this game gets too focused on dps and too many people just want to dps and want more dps and that may never change unless the devs design content that forces things to change. Far as healers go, solo healing should be standard because healers can easily heal 8 people, 4 people, themselves and the most injured. Healers can make use of HoTs, healing can be very situational as to what is best at that time. It can also vary depending on which power the healer is but overall every power for healer should be able to handle keeping 8 people alive no problem and if there were 2 controllers in the raid then the 1 healer should never be out of power thus being able to keep everything alive and going. Something to be said against this could be that the 5th dps should be able to add to the damage output more than the 2nd controller but setting aside that the 5th dps might suck, a controller can reduce enemy defense. A controller can reduce enemy damage output. Reducing enemy defense can help make up for a "possible" loss of dps by having a 2nd controller. Reducing enemy damage output can reduce the load on the solo healer if everyone takes slightly less damage. Sure this doesn't always apply but more times than not, it can apply. Anyone can stand at the training dummy and practice their dps until they can do good dps but the 5th dps cannot be as useful as the 2nd controller overall. It simply boils down to a matter of preference though and for those of us that prefer more well rounded groups we always have the option of static groups or league runs.
I can't understand why after all this time some players are still hung up on 2-2-2-2, the composition of the group should be flexible. If 2 Tanks are needed so be it, if it can be done with one why take more? As Gunny has pointed out DPS is the only role that doesn't suffer from stacking although you could certainly make an argument for diminishing returns. At this point DPSing has never been easier between AM'S and WM, there's so many skill points available now most can probably dual spec if you don't have an armory and unattuned gear means there really is no excuse not to be able to do both roles. Rather than focus on group composition I like to focus on whats efficient, doesn't matter to me if its an extra healer, tank, troller, DPS or a balanced group.
5-1-1-1 is just the optimal way to play. With AM, nobody wants to play support role, especially with no real incentive for it. Look at the content. What piece of content requires 2-2-2-2? Survival mode, but that mode does not go towards progression thus 2-2-2-2 is never required or used. Look at NGN and HH, both dont require 2 troller or 2 healers. 5-1-1-1 is also doesnt mean terrible dps. I have seen some crazy burn with 5-1-1-1. I seen the first boss in NGN done in under 2 minutes with 5-1-1-1, and the last boss, I didnt even know adds spawned because the boss was melted in under 1 minute. Point is as long as BURN can beat any mechanic to where there is no mechanic at all, 5-1-1-1 will always be the best tool to use.
It would be interesting to have an instance in which the longer it takes to kill a boss with constant attacks (not slacking like Scarecrow 100 terror) the better drops you'd get. It would be funny to read in LFG "NO DPS RUN"! or "SOLO DPS"
Trolls now days have 4-5k vit so in most cases more than 1 troll is more of a hindrance than help,sure there are some instances that need more than 1 troll but most do not and other than totd you almost never need more than 1 heal and tank. All 2-2-2-2 groups do most of the time is take forever to form (on pc anyway)and make the run slower .
Been tank been healer. Havent been troller yet can become one whenever i decide too. But kinda worn out on being a support role that's why i have been offline.
possibly so, but by avoiding the one shots and out burning the mechanics you are making sorry players that cant beat content correctly because they dont know how to survive when it matters, as they never learn what to avoid nor do they learn how to manage their own health so when they are thrown into content by them selves or in smaller groups they are a liability to their team mates with out the other DPS to buffer their lack of skill