DCUO - Regarding the artifacts Cog of Mageddon and Tetrahedron of Urgrund

No its not a few,we can see people asking for eog dpses ONLY when double source marks raids comes around. Its that broken and creating more artifacts like these will make it even more ridiclous so i disagree with you.

I definetly agree it being a group based on is what makes it broken i think Obsidian has explained it well in this vid hopefully ranmaru can get inspired by it.

Nothing wrong with us respectfully disagreeing sometimes it's a part of what makes the forums a discussion
Idk, maybe we're in different regions or on at different times or something, but I personally haven't had issues with the majority of ppl asking for it, even during bonus weeks. Most ppl on my LFG chat rarely even specify for EOG even for healers.

And here we have it folks. The very thing that people have being saying is going on but then someone from the LFG comes along and says it doesn't exist.

He literally just said that DPS are dependant on buff trolls and can't do their job without one. So by looking deeper this ultimately means that they need EOG spam as well.

So basically, crutches. DPS can't be bothered to do anything other than damage but to even do said damage" need buff troll with cog , tetra, claw , Nubia and swapping arts. Also need EOG tank and eog heal running 3 SC and SC generator plus black Adam. Pst with Cr and stats"

Guessing you're a casual player who never looks at chat because that's what the op is asking for to begin with

I'm guessing you're either trying to be a troll (not one that gives power) or you're being the embodiment of the pot trying to call the kettle black lol.

The original poster of THIS thread is asking is there a way to merge the tetra & cog so controllers can buff both playstyles at the same time.

Just b/c ppl aren't spamming they want the same picky set up doesn't mean i don't watch the chat.

You're just throwing accusations around lol.

Level 30
TheLQ-DCUO said: ↑
“You're a rare breed. On EU server there's a similar issue with controllers only running cog.

It's division because if the controller isn't running cog or tetra it's penalising the DPS who levelled their artifacts and spent time on their rotations as precision or might only to do less damage. If the controller is exclusively running cog then Might DPS will underperform next to precision players. That is something in the meta currently and as mentioned before in a previous post players shouldn't have to play a certain way of DPSing just for the buffs from the controller.

Regarding the other points you made, they seem to be in the meta so it's not an individual issue. The controller is often less busy than the tank or even the heal, depending on the boss encounter, so it makes sense for more experienced content groups to give the controller more to do regarding mechanics. There's also situations where maybe the controller player wants more to do.

If most of the controllers only run cog OR tetra rather than both, the same question could be addressed to the play style not being buffed. If you have most endgame controllers only running cog, does anyone care about Might DPS? If you have most endgame controllers only running tetra, does anyone care about Precision DPS? There should imo be a middle ground where both are happy. In terms of the controller role itself it was once mainly used to give power and debuffs, but with various updates, artifacts/allies, easy ways of replenishing your own power, this changed in more recent years, especially with the introduction of Claw of Aelkhund and then later updating Cog/Tetra. There's another discussion at hand but it concerns the controller role as a whole than the cog/tetra debate, which is what this thread is focusing on.

Precision/might from a DPS standpoint is a topic for another day - at the moment it is fine but if cog/tetra was one artifact we would have a better idea of balance with DPS in the game. Hybrid DPS isn't really a thing, very few players have tried this out that I know of. And not many players I know of use Cog or Tetra as DPS, there's few exceptions where they can be used to buff the group but at the cost of their own damage.

Who knows a cog/tetra hybrid might work out for hybrid DPS, but in any case if there were any changes it would have to go through test server first.”

Guess he's trolling too. Go ahead and ignore that

I never disagreed with their post, the artifact (should) buff both anyway. But that doesn't change the fact that (i) don't see a million ppl spamming picky setups for elite runs. A handful of ppl do but not the majority.

I was also telling someone my thoughts on their comments about EOG not a disagreement with merging the artifacts effect of the tetra & cog so I'm a little confused of what argument you are trying to make.)

I agree with the sentiment that the team-based artifacts are problematic. EOG is broken mostly because of the enormous self-stacking stat buffs. I don't think that adding more buffs is the solution, though. Allies are already becoming a little dumb for that same reason (Superman shield passive is really strong). I would rather have artifacts be designed for certain niches and playstyles, and less jack-of-all-trades team buffs. Artifacts like Clarion, which was designed in mind for Prec battle healing in small groups (but can also work at 200 in some healer loadouts and tank loadouts) is a lot more fun design than things like Strat/Trans/EoG, which almost always works extremely well in any situation. Also, more buff arts would just cause people to demand trolls to level up even more arts for their buffs.

double post

Are you still open to this suggestion?

I've thought quite a bit on this and I am torn; I think about the idea of a more focused refresh of these artifacts so that they are more accurately representative of their roles whilst remaining simplistic in nature. I.E
Cog - Prec DPS
Tetra - Might PftT DPS
Starheart - Pure Healer
Azar - Power Controller
Refractor - Hp Tank
And making a new kind of artifact for Buff focused controllers; While I worry that this will be less popular since it will mean a rework to to the existing artifacts to make them more relevant for the roles I envision them for. I also feel like it might also feel like an annoyance to buff controllers as the artifacts they were using are now non-relevant to the role they want to play. But As I said I haven't made up my mind in any way about anything just simply sharing my thoughts on them at the moment.

The problem right now is that both Cog and Tetra are being used by controller only. So a rework would require a lock to the DPS role as players would simply have the controller get another swap artifact to build that was around a buff controller aspect.

To my understanding, even though Cog and Tetra were intended to be a damage role artifact, they are completely open and very much like EOG in that regard. A healer could use them if they wanted, as an example, but the controller was the best option since they don't have much in the ways of mechanics where you need a controller. Content is just built that way and the few sprinkled in pieces that do require something other than "buff", are really not helping warranting another artifact.

I definetly think that those you mentioned should get a rework espcially dilustel/starheart/azar are rarely used but every support roll should have a generic artifact that enhances the basic support roll job that buffs ur self only currently they are simply too weak to be used.

the troller artifacts i say theres so many artifacts for controllers and many of them are straight buffs too many are usefull for the groups there isnt any room for trolls to focus on power trolling arts they are just busy swapping in a whole bunch buff ones in and out and cant properly troll which further creates other problems.

I do agree that some of these buff artifacts should be useable by DPS players only so trollers have less options to buff with And focus on actually trolling considering raid content is made of 4-5 dps its more reasonable to expect someone there to buff then have a single troller be the only buff whos actual job is to power up the group not be the damage booster OR they could even be made to buff yourself only (increase own might for tetra at all times for example) (coq increase own prec at all times) then its not a group buff anymore this way might and prec players will also have a generic permament self buff artifact.

As a controller who prefers to troll more than dps, I can’t say it wouldn’t be annoying to have multiple artifacts rendered null and void for my role after putting the time and resources into levelling them all up… even with the ability to feed them, I already have artifacts I use whenever I have to dps, so then I’ll just have artifacts for nothing

What if you apply the same effects on both, but grant players that already have both the option to trade one of them in for another artifact via a "token" of sorts?

Tetra gives a Might buff to the group based on your Health. DPS and Controllers gets/give double the % buff.
Refracter gives a Health buff to the group based on your Dominance. Tanks gets/give double the % buff.
Listed as the last white sentence on all 3 Arts in their effect.

I can't remember if Starheart and Azar are listed as Heal and Troll give double the Health buffs.

the problem with cog and tetra is..why would a dps take it from either damage type arts... only one will be able to use it in a group to make it effective there is no other reason to bring it... infact all of the original artifacts arent being used just because you guys have made other artifacts more effective than those

azar for example ...it gives the group health which is nice but people arent using it as is right? so the health isnt really necessary it would need a different function something that amps up the POT or i dont know honestly i cant tell you but it needs something better than health..

same with starheart the extra health is nice..but people are using it for a reason its not necessary... again this needs another function added to it to make it effective and compete with other healer arts so there are more choices rather than everyone using the same

dilustel ... samething it grants health that isnt needed... i love that it is tied into the pull since for atomic tanks this would be used quite a bit for us who still use atomsplitter.... but but why would i give up manacles mystic symbol for this art ... my third slot is taken by everyman just simply cause i like getting the extra defense for when things get hairy.... but if i didnt use everyman dilustel still wouldnt be my next pick... cause i dont need the health and the group doesnt seem to need it either...

dps arts are the same thing right? only one dps could even use it in a group to make it effective... no dps is going to level this to 200 when there are way better options out there to help increase your damage... they would need an additional function on top of what they do.. plus it would have to be able to be used by everyone in the group not just by one... they truly seem more of a support art rather than a dps art...

and i hear people making suggestions about making these arts good for a swap out... not eveyone plays that way... and im fairly certain you the developers do not design arts with that type of game play in mind (atleast ive never seen anywhere where you make the suggestion that is how you design artifacts) ... so personally if im deciding on redesigning these arts id make them to where youd want them as more of a staple in your load out and not a swap out...

so in short... the 3 support arts need a new function cause boosting health is not needed in this game...

and the 2 dps arts need to be able to work where every dps can bring it ... not just 1 for a group otherwise they wont even bother with it...

these are just my thoughts on them people can disagree and thats fine

While I applaud the attempt to think outside the box here, BumblingB hit the nail on the head - as long as a controller can wear a buff artifact, there is a vocal set of folks in game who will want controllers to art-swap. You're effectively putting some tape over a gaping hole.

If this is the only way to "fix" it, (remove controller role bonuses from dps-intended artifacts), I'll take it. A more welcome fix would be to make it so buffs end upon artifact removal, the same way I lose stats upon gear removal.

I think a part of it is because of how one dimensional the community can be, they set a meta and then tunnel vision the meta into the ground.

Instead of a DPS running say a Tetra and Cog and investing in health they've placed an expectation on controllers to do all of that for them so that they (the dps) can take different artifact combinations they don't see as being a "waste".

The moment the controllers were given the claw, their bed was made as "Damage Buff" rather than "Power Healers" and their role switched overnight and you'll probably never get it back to what it was.

The artifact swapping occurs because of their being friction between Precision and Might within group dynamics and the controller doesn't know which to take or has to make a decision they'd rather not and with people scoreboard chasing this puts even more pressure on the controller when someone in the group misses out on a buff.

It is my personal opinion that controllers should never have been made into "Buff providers" the responsibility to buff your damage should always have rested with the individual dps, but that ship has sailed.

The best solution in the current situation in my opinion is simply combining the artifact to include both might and precision, but the might players won't like that when it makes the precision players stronger because they use both stats and might doesn't, you'd have to figure out a balance in the output potential most likely.