EoG changes binned then?

I can always count on Reinfield to come at me for no reason whatsoever. It was a playful tease that punished with the righteous fury of a thousand gods. Sometimes I wonder what I did to hurt you. Then I stop caring a few seconds later.

My time isn't that valuable these days, but still enough that I wouldn't bother typing to you about your less than ideal damage. It's in your head man. I'm not Chad.

Most E+ raids require strict following of mechanics, using EoG is sometimes impossible or leads to more problems than it helps.
That being said, of course, any way of speeding up an encounter is being taken advantage of if possible.

If we take Swe+, the 1st boss was pure EoG spam without any issues, making it faster but not a requirement. On the 2nd boss, the healer switched to main heal using only one sc max after the 2nd extra boss spawned so again just sped things up but it isn't necessary at all. 3rd boss is either full EoG spam and burn asap to skip phases (especially for no die) or regular mechanics which weren't hard to begin with, so EoG just sped it up. The same applied to the last boss, although it's not even that useful there due to the red meteor fields spawning after ~50% HP.

RoE+ 1st boss definitely helps to have EoG, although having a mindless player in your group oblivious of the damage aura can ruin it for everyone. But again, nothing crazy makes EoG spam a requirement. 2nd boss with the chain lightning and runes on a random player made nobody even bother trying EoG spam.

NuE+ 1st boss is working too, although often somebody dies since the TP attack of hatred can hit multiple players if grouped up and that usually knocks out those that don't pay attention very closely. Again, this is speeding things up but not mandatory. 2nd Boss is arguably the only boss I'd say has such a great benefit, that not using it makes it more difficult. Since stacking enough damage allows you to skip some phases and reset the rings on the tank, the whole fight requires only one tank with good enough dmg due to EoG.

The Swe+ 3rd boss strat can still be pulled off without dps EoG and will simply take a bit longer to refill the group with SC in-between phases after the Nerf, so that doesn't really count and is only really needed for feats anyway.

Im not saying that it's making the content easier having EoG stacked up, but it definitely leaves less room for errors, allowing some groups to finish it that may have not gotten it without EoG. Then again, it's a learning curve when it comes to E+. Eventually, any group that tries long and hard enough can finish it. With and without EoG.

Reliance on EOG, particularly EOG stacking yes or no? Reliance on tac swapping, yes or no? Hint - the floor is more orange than the inside of an orange juice tanker, so I think you know the answer

The completion of the instance itself isn't typically where the problem exists, it's the burn check type extra curricular activities (feats) not many instances actually require a massive level of burn simply to complete, although those that do can cause problems in EEG. It's the burn checks that as evidenced below, require the EOG, not only that they apparently require tac swapping.

It'll be truly interesting to see what happens with this feat after the EOG nerf and/or once it's clamped.

Yes...I 'came at you'...Better call in a report for harassment for asking you a question. When did you get so thin skinned? You didn't make it sound like you were joking and actually said the words 'I came at him'...you know the same thing you just accused me of, indicating it wasn't a joke. Thanks for clarifying. When I a guy who made 20+ pickups and probably saved a bad run from a wipe, I'd say 'nice pickups' or something, wacky, I know....but you have your methods and I have mine.

And I wasn't saying it WAS you that said the bit in the seasonal....just that it sounded like a similar gripe. Self obsessed much? Guess maybe that guy was 'teasing' too.

'Poor delivery' is maybe your issue and I've read you all wrong all this time. I should give you another chance and we can run together....become friends even?









See....THAT's how you deliver a joke.

A) As the changes are not in yet, you can't really say that. It's a guess...an educated guess, but a guess all the same.
B) It is also entirely possible that without that 'less room for errors' no one would have passed some of these things. And if that were the case, I'd guess they'd be looking at the content/feat by now for review.

My question wasn't to Mepps wasn't that 'will you be making changes?' It was 'Is there any plans to make changes if warranted'...it's entirely possible they won't be warranted. That doesn't mean that things shouldn't be looked at after a major change like this.

Just saying, it will be interesting to know if any group ever finished it without EOG/Swapping or whatever other kitchen sink meta was thrown at it. Hey....I get it...use the tools at your disposal to make it easier...that's just smart. Let's see how things go with the hammer being removed from the toolbox.

I finished Swe+ at level as gadget might dps only using EoG as Dps at 1st boss and at the beginning of the 2nd boss multiple times.
And yes, gadget is of course stronger than other powersets but still, it was and is possible without it. Also, i dont tac swap besides henchmen. And i was among the first to even finish it. Sounds like im bragging but really just want to point out that with everyone trying their hardest, the oldschool methods are sometimes better since tac swapping takes away focus for mechanics and EoG distracts at times.

I absolutely agree that at level the damage checks in the game required EoG, but looking at grail dmg check now, it doesnt anymore and proma with good base-dmg dps won't require it either most likely (by now).
Im not sure how the devs evaluate dmg-check HP's for bosses, but if its a flat equation for damage, it definitely needs to be adjusted. If its only based on private testing feedback, this shouldn't be a problem in the future - hopefully.

My answer was based on the comment that E+ in general required EoG and not only the dmg checks.

Im currently doing a lot of feats in the league, maybe i can try and sneak in some attempts of no EoG dmg-check attempts.

That was what i wanted to point out with my answer before. In the critical moments of Swe+, which is the 2nd boss, EoG wasn't even used. It was always the pure mechanic that wiped many and no extra dmg from EoG could've sped it up enough to burn through it.

I hope that particularly Proma will be properly adjusted once that episode gets retired into omnibus.

Oh for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not talking about the completion of content, I'm not really for a moment implying completing the content itself requires the use of EOG, but I am certainly implying that a number of feats possibly do, hence the entire premise of my posts.

We don't really seem to be in disagreement.

Happy to hear about what works for you if not EOG, especially if the nerf does go ahead and you happen to try it

Proxy isn't saying it's impossible, nor is she saying it's not supposed to be challenging. What proxy is saying certain feats (not simply completing the content) shouldn't feel unreasonable if you're not using a single playstyle. Yes RPG's do require you to lvl up before completing certain content/bosses. The issue with that in DC however is the stat clamp is going to make things feel similar to when you 1st played the content regardless of how far you lvled up (with some Elites & mostly in Elite+). So now there's an issue where players can't "over lvl" to compensate for the utility of the EOG whether for shields & heals on tanks or for burn checks. Certain feats in game as she mentioned were actually built around the EOG & those pieces of content need to either be tuned to it's coming nerf or the current numbers for the nerf need to be increased slightly.

I'm calling it, proxy's day job is a lawyer lol XD

Thanks bro. I always appreciate a solid education in clown school from an ancient relic. Maybe I can bring you some diapers in the near future and we'll see if my "delivery" has improved.

It's a double-edged sword, man. If they don't make content difficult for the best playstyles... then it isn't difficult at all. The developers aren't there to cater to your desire to be Joe, the plumber who wields pipe and has the power to sustain himself indefinitely by eating his own poop. Sorry... he's not the target audience when it comes to Elite Content. You're acting like something being difficult is this completely outlandish idea because it's old. Like Reinfield. Maybe we should nerf him too and make him less funny because it isn't fair.

Diapers? Nah man...you come see me, I'd expect you to do the cleanup at the 'source'. I'll eat Taco Bell the night before so you have an extra fun time down there.

And uh.....'EOG CHANGE BAD'....there....on topic.

There are quite a few feats in the game that are completely reliant on EOG (especially with the clamp)...if these get posted, do you think the dev team would be willing to adjust some of them?

EDIT, just off the top of my head:

• Proma's Anguish (Elite)
• Covergence of Unmaking (Elite) speed feat

I don't think "completely reliant" is the most accurate way to put it.

Players are always going to use what does the most damage, especially during a damage check feat, but that doesn't necessarily mean those feats are impossible without EOG. In the cases that they are, I'm all for adjusting them appropriately.

The fact that every group uses EOG to accomplish a certain feat is not evidence that it's required for the feat. For that, we would need to see how they do without EOG. Which we never do because all the top players/groups have no reason not to use it.

I'd guess that Proma's Anguish is doable without EOG today given that the best times from the videos Proxy shared above did it with 5 seconds to spare at level and we are now two episodes later.

And just to repeat, if any feats suddenly seem impossible due to the EOG nerf, I'm all for adjusting them appropriately.

What about all the feats that actually need eog?
What about all the supercharges that were changed because of eog?

This feels very out of touch. I highly suggest rebalancing supercharges before nerfing eog.

Yeah I don't know, big yikes tbh Mepps, starting your sentence with the words "By and large" doesn't particularly instill confidence that you haven't done so to at least some extent, which is scary, when you're talking about balancing something while not addressing the consequential impact of the item being balanced or just waiting to see evidence of the breakages that will occur after the fact.

I'm not trying to be unreasonable towards you either, and, I appreciate you saying that you'll be watching for feedback and specific cases, but, this was an example posted back in September 2022

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...al-stat-clamp-omnibus-outliers-thread.324505/

You even replied in there, but nothing has been done or said about CTE since RavNoc raised that particular example? How long are we (players) supposed to wait for the specific cases to be addressed, if they are reported and acknowledged? That's nearly a year now since you loosely acknowledged CTE and it was reported earlier than that as well because it's been a problem since the clamp was introduced.

VIRALITY has also raised two others just above that are particularly questionable as well.

Ya know, I was reflecting on my knee-jerk reaction post, and I'm thinking your argument definitely has some merit.

What concerns me though, is, even if a given feat is attainable without EOG (let's pretend) - I wonder what the next set of complaints will be...ie. how come we can't get XXXX feat without having all gadgets/electric toons, superspeed, precision, etc? I mean, that might already be a complaint as it is, and that is with EOG being in the game. Go on Youtube right now, and you'll be hard pressed to find a group of players getting Proma's Anguish (Elite) without a full group (or a majority group) of superspeed precision gadgets/electricity players, and that's not to say it isn't impossible - but, how would we make that determination? Like, what will it take to prove that EOG is the deciding factor? At the end of the day it's all a min/max of certain numbers - if we determine that a full group of maxed out ice might players go in there and subsequently can't get the feat without EOG, then what?

Because I've gone in to TSWE with some players that are very high-end, and it was a mixed group of powersets, and we couldn't even get the feat, and that was with EOG, and without stat clamping.

I was with a high-end group of players when getting the COUE speed feat, and we had...like...mere seconds to spare, but again, that was with an EOG healer that was spamming 2 supercharges to give us the green goodness.

IDK..just seems kinda...like...something needs to be looked at and tested.